While I understand the concern around not wanting to support Maga or far right leaning extremists. I take somewhat of a net neutral approach to this topic. Just because some company isn’t doing something I like doesn’t mean they haven’t produced a good product. For instance people whine and bitch all the time about Apple using child labor but that doesn’t stop most people from owning a. IPhone because we like iphones. Amazon is a crazy huge company that has time and time again treated thier employees like trash and yet we still use amazon prime. What are we going to do if Farmers and slaughter houses all vote for Trump? Stop buying groceries? No. Most people only care when it’s convenient to care. We don’t really want change or progress because to be honest most of us aren’t going to or want to take up arms and start another civil war all over again. The arguments and fighting we have in the states is nothing new. We’ll stay silent and continue are word vomit on social platforms while the world eats us alive because really trying would be too hard. That’s the truth.
techlore talked about this is their weekly livestream
to summarize he thinks it’s got something to do with people on mastdodon bashing hate to the proton account there.
I cancelled my subscription because of technical reasons, but now I can add political reasons on top.
Lately, their posts on Mastodon became full of comments questioning their CEO political views. I guess, this is the answer to those, a clear one.
I agree this is an issue. They move away from a privacy oriented community. Additionally, the reason they give is vague and easily dismantled. What I’m interested in is why this would be a good enough reason to switch providers. They haven’t changed anything crucial in their mail offering, so why should I switch?
kinda wierd for proton to promote on reddit, when reddit doesnt allow VPN usage to most users, mostly for spam/botting/ban evasions.
Three years ago I made an issue on their feedback page because the android app doesn’t really work on degoogled phones, it requires gms for notifications. Still not fixed.
Nice privacy focused App that can’t fully be used if you take privacy seriously.
FYI i use a degoogled FP3 with microG and I don’t have any problem.
Proton is really just trashing their rep.
I’d say this move seems too dumb even for fiction, if that wasn’t the SOP for the entire country I live in.
Given the context though, I’m curious if one of you privacy experts can change my mind on how I approach email.
I don’t use email for any meaningful communication where I expect privacy. It is essentially the way for companies and a few other organizations to send me low priority information and/or confirm my identity to reset a password or whatever. Because of that, the only attributes of an email service I really care about are reliability and availability, including not having emails silently blocked for not coming from a “trusted” provider.
So what is the practical risk of just using a Gmail address for that stuff, equivalent to hiding in plain sight? Yeah it helps Google fine tune their advertising model for me, while I’m running Linux on all my machines and blocking ads on any device I touch. My social media is Lemmy and my streaming service is Jellyfin.
Am I risking too much if I use it as the corporate contact point that it is? Am I just letting my white/straight/cis/male privilege show through?
I don’t use email for any meaningful communication where I expect privacy. It is essentially the way for companies and a few other organizations to send me low priority information and/or confirm my identity to reset a password or whatever.
As a privacy enthusiast (expert seems too much), this immediately stood out. Privacy is the context of emails means that all my data which includes the content of the messages but also the metadata (who I talk to, which services I use - like in your example -, when I communicate, how often, etc.) is kept private, meaning not used for anything else than providing me the service (i.e., let me send and receive emails). From this point of view, even if you consider the content of your emails not sensitive, already the fact that you do use company X (because they sent you a password reset email) is data about you, and as such can and will be mined by Google to profile you or to sell it.
Am I risking too much if I use it as the corporate contact point that it is? Am I just letting my white/straight/cis/male privilege show through?
Nobody can tell you this, because risk in this context is purely a subjective estimation, and you are free to do what you please. However, I do care about my privacy, which means that I want to minimize the amount of data about me available for sale or to others in general. For me the motivation is quite simple, while I do block ads everywhere too and I generally don’t have an impact in terms of getting personalized ads, once the data is collected I have no idea what will be used for, by whom and for what purpose. It doesn’t even matter if the data actually allows to infer accurate things about me, it’s enough that someone (e.g., insurance company, employer, bank, government, etc.) is gullible enough to believe that inference is correct. In the book “Privacy is power” (written by Carissa Veliz) she also develops a very interesting argument about the fact that violating your privacy usually means also violating the privacy of the people near you (the people with whom you share demographic, the people you communicate with etc.). This could be another point of view to consider.
Anyway, if for you the above is fine, there is no other significant risk you are taking, and you should keep using Gmail if that suits you.
A technical note. Secure email providers generally can have technical controls (i.e., encryption) to protect the body (content) of the email, and in some cases some small amount of metadata (e.g., Tuta encrypts also the subject). Generally though, you are still trusting the provider to perform that encryption (especially because a mail from Gmail -> Proton/Tuta would be encrypted by Proton/Tuta) and to not use metadata for any purpose besides delivering the emails. So privacy here doesn’t mean absolutely removing the data from a third party, but it means giving it to a third party who uses it (due to contractual obligation, business incentives etc.) only for the intended purpose in a privacy-preserving way.
I mean yeah I think the main problem is just Google having all that data about you and potentially selling it to others whether that be for advertising, robocalling, or other things. So it really just comes down to how comfortable you are allowing Google to be able to use your emails and communications from corporations to see what things you like. Only time it really matters more is if you are using email for more personal or secure communications which yeah I would always prefer using better encrypted more messaging focused apps like signal for or just talking in person when possible.
This really sucks, I like using Proton and now I want to leave… WTF
One wonders why the rest of the Proton Foundation hasn’t stepped in and gotten rid of Andy; I assume it’s just because they don’t actually care about privacy, they’re just cryptonerds.
I suggest you give a read to “Privacy is power” by Carissa Veliz (on the board). She also gave a very good interview on the podcast “firewalls don’t stop dragons”.
I also don’t think “cryptonerds” applies to people like Tim Berners Lee.
The problem is they continue to allow Andy Yen, the CEO of Proton, to remain on the board.
Yes that’s true, and that seems quite natural. His poor communication in a tweet is not a reason to fire someone from a board, in my opinion. Especially since at the best of my knowledge he didn’t do anything that harmed the privacy of anybody, nor he showed inclination to do so.
In any case, if you find yourself “assuming” that people that have years of track record caring about privacy and similar issue “don’t care about privacy” or “are cryptonerds”, maybe you should reflect a second. This is why I said to go listen to her interview or read her pieces.
I’ve committed a bunch of relatives and myself to a year of the Family plan, and now most of us want to leave… What a mess.
Wait, you bought/gave money to Proton so early in its life? Why do people keep falling for these over and over.
If a ‘can run on low resources sustainably’ is legit, going to have test and wait for it to see first.
Otherwise we need to accept what we can and can’t have based on what is possible without being greedy and at someone else’s expense.
Protón is just a bunch of criptonazis
R*edit 💀
Do they really need a team of people to post the same thing to X, Mastodon, BkueSky, etc? I’m honestly surprised they don’t have some bot to make all the posts for them to those services. Sounds like a cop out to me.
i heard they stopped posting on bluesky weeks ago, not surprised they are active on meta platforms, and X.
They specifically said they don’t want to do automated posting, to avoid writing and not interacting with the community. I see no value in them doing this, considering we can get the same content via RSS, blog page or email newsletter. Presence makes sense if it means presence. If it means a bot reposting content, anybody can do it, but the value is very low.
It wouldn’t be hard to do simultaneous posting. People figured that out ages ago.
It’s not a problem of complexity, it’s a deliberate choice of not wanting to do that, because it is synthetic content disconnected from the community.
Exactly. If they need help maybe someone could create something so they can post to BlueSky, Matrix, Lemmy, and Mastadon at same time soon. Also set it up for the up and coming Flashes and Pixelfed.
@mailbox_org@mailbox_org@mastodon.social are running their own mastodon server and it’s an excellent mail service provider. @Tutanota@mastodon.social are also present on Mastodon and is likewise an excellent mail service provider.
