CA better get their hands on some ICBMs. Keep one pointed at DC, and another pointed at Mar-a-Lago. It’s pretty much the only way a state can keep its sovereignty.
Shit my CA driver’s license expired. Does that mean I’ll need to apply for citizenship or will old residents be good?
Okay, but then California becomes a smaller country bordering a much larger fascist neighbor with the largest military in the world.
In what world is that a good outcome?
In what world did refusing to vote democrat in the last election result in a good outcome?
Oregon and Washington would probably do the same if California seceded. (Which it won’t). If BC Canada left, Cascadia would be a thing that is large and prosperous enough to stand on it’s own. That or the three states just join Canada.
If they do start to secede or actually secede than it just becomes an expensive and complicated mess that doesn’t help anyone. Because even if they are forced back then the larger federation has to work ten times harder to keep them in place and cooperative and in the end becomes a net negative where they have to decide if it’s cheaper to let go or keep paying to stay together.
Ask a Canadian what it means because we’ve had that discussion many times with Quebec and less often with other regions. It’s far cheaper for everyone to be cooperative and mutually benefiting one another on good terms than to threaten anyone into a corner … and even when things are working, it’s still not easy.
They’d become a pretty large country with one of the world’s largest economies holding major port access to their neighbor. A few allies and things aren’t quite so clear cut. Not to mention they’d potentially have significant military resources.
If you think the US military wouldn’t immediately remove all assets from California you’d be sorely mistaken. There is no way that the fed would allow assets like that to be given away to a successionist movement. Even if they didn’t, California doesn’t have the logistic ability to maintain those assets for more than id say 3 months.
If you think you know exactly how all installations, including National Guard Installations, would operate in a situation of this magnitude, I envy your blind certitude.
That economy is tightly integrated with the rest of the country.
In a secession, those ties would be severed, likely tanking the economy of both California and the US.That’s definitely possible. I’m not saying it would be a good thing. The only thing I feel confident about is that we do not know. A lot isn’t as it once seemed right now. Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!
For all of the reasons given, secession from the United States is a bad idea. But I’m going to keep banging this drum: The metropolises need to secede from their states, while staying part of the United States. Heck, Los Angeles County alone has more people than 40 of the states. It’s about time that they got fair representation.
That’s an approach I’d never considered - is there wiggle-room in the state constitutions to split into smaller states?
Article IV Section 3 of the US constitution
New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.
If a state agrees, a new state can be formed in its territory, effectively splitting it.
And there is the rub. Conservative legislators won’t allow it in most states, because it would mean more Dems in congress.
Same in California for much the same reason. There has long been a Republican proposal to split it into 5 states so there are more Republican senators.
We could follow an approach like in the slavery days. Balance each new slave state with a free state.
NY is a very blue state on the strength of NYC. But I grew up upstate, and there were just so many differences. ITs not just that it was a conservative rural area, but it was hard to find anything in common with the city and it always felt like the city dominated and we were afterthoughts. There was definite resentment and I’m sure it hasn’t helped as upstate economies and population dwindle while NYC strengthens. At the time you could split the population pretty evenly between conservative upstate and liberal city: there’d be a new red state to balance the new blue state of Los Angeles, and everyone could more closely elect their preferences
For the record, we in NYC have unique needs that are sometimes time sensitive, see funding for tunnel doors after Sandy as an example. There was no intention to override or co-opt funds meant for people outside the metro area, we all live the beauty of the Hudson valley and so forth.
That need for expedience generates ill will nonetheless, I forgot how many politicos from the state area would purposely slow down city requests or legislation unless a deal was attached.
I’m a huge fan of high speed rail and always hoped that could bring us together.
- Currently, spending on rail is a divider since nyc has a huge rail system and rail effectively doesn’t exist in the rest of the state. Why should we spend money on a project that only benefits the city (forgetting which direction the money actually flows)?
- if we all came together to build high speed rail to Albany, then up to Montreal and across the Mohawk valley to Buffalo (perhaps to be extended to Toronto), then the entire state benefits from rail. Upstate gets a much needed infusion to resurrect dying cities, we build a greater economy together, and NYC is the hub of a greater network. We can also all benefit by closer ties to our brothers up north and be part of a greater high speed rail network if their HSR gets off the ground
The “forgetting the money” is one of the parts we city people grumble quite a bit about amongst ourselves whenever the upstate politicos play games with our funding needs.
Look, the goal of govt is supposed to be benefit as many as possible, though for some that seems to also mean ignore the few, which I strongly disagree with.
If we build an HSR system within the city e.g. by replacing metro-north tracks, city people immediately benefit… but then the system can expand from there out to Schenectady, Albany buffalo etc. There’s no reason we can’t build your idea in a sensible, phased manner. We could go backwards too, start in buffalo and build south since the metro-north system is already fully functional.
I no longer live in NYC, but the years working for the MTA showed me a lot of the difficult, non-engineering problems to balance. Maybe there are ways to avoid the human problems associated with any large engineering project, but I don’t yet know if any such shortcuts exist or ever existed.
I think it’s probably neither allowed nor disallowed in state constitutions, but I’m just a dilettante constitutional scholar. Whether it’s allowed or not under the current system, that system is broken and can’t be fixed within the limitations of the system, and it needs a disruption. Disruptions tend to be unpleasant, so this is the least-disruptive disruption that I’ve come up with. There’s even historical precedent for it, in the form of the free imperial cities of the Holy Roman Empire.
Texas could split in five smaller states iirc.
It’s a moot point anyway, though, because the ruling post-Civil war (Texas v. White, specifically) determined that unilateral secession was not allowed. In order for California to leave they would either have to come to an agreement with the Federal government to do so (or a majority of all other state legislatures, or something… there’s no precedent) or fight a war against the rest of the union and win, forcing capitulation and a concession.
Both possibilities seem extremely remote.
This is only posturing, and even if it passes it is not designed to result in California actually leaving the union.
Join the EU and NATO, let’s see how it plays out!
Putin wins
God dammit I find this so fucking hilarious. Every time a Republican wins you’ll inevitably see an article talking about California is to leave. And on the flip side every time we get a Democrat in office fuckin Texas starts bitching and tryna leave.
I’m not going to say it’ll never happen, but I would be willing to bet all the 7 dollars I have to my name that it’s not gonna happen.
Well in fairness, the pendulum keeps swinging farther with each new administration. So the split is never going to happen until it does. No way to know if this is the time or not. But unless something happens to break the cycle of more and more extremism, their will be a serious attempt at a split eventually. Weather it results in some kind of civil war where one side forces the other to stay, or a split actually happens is also unknowable.
It’s nice to think about taking g your ball amd going home. However, if we denigrate Texas everytime they threaten to secede we really shouldn’t be giving California a pass.
I don’t denigrate Texas every time they say they’re gonna secede. In fact, I want them to. If they don’t want to be a part of America, then let them go do their own thing. If that turns out to be a bad move for them, then that’s on them.
gsybdkzbayvfisg yes!! balkanize hahahahahah this would be hilarious please
This is stupid and a pointless gesture. Do something more productive with your time.
Bitch, please.
Found the magat
Yeah, it’s you. You’re the one stoking separatism. Fuck off.
Fuck the United States. I want to live in a sane country. Cascadia. CA, OR, WA.
Good luck without the Pacific Ocean, MAGAt piece of shit.
quest for panama i̴͍͌̈͠n̴̪̻̆͌ţ̸̲͔̐ȩ̸́̈́̅̕ṋ̸͖͇̀̂s̷͍̿͗̇̉i̸̠̤̝̜͛́f̶̨͍͓̠̓́ì̶̧͖̟͊e̸̫͎̦͐́̔͠ș̷͕̓̀̍̈́
Useful idiot.
Yeah you are, go back to your red state and fight your own fight. Leave the solid blue strip out of it.
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Eat shit.
Fuck off and die, traitor.
Can we coordinate with Oregon and Washington to join Canada?
The aside, California leads the US in many ways, but we have a tendency to go too far and do really dumb things. We’re pretty good at self congratulations even when other states stare, slack-jawed at our blunders. It’s nice to have perspective.
Can we get hawaii too for our corrupt politician’s vacation homes
Alaska can come too
Fuckin kangaroos
CASCADIA NOW!!!
i freaking love the idea of Cascadia becoming autonomous and independent. I’d love it if New England did that too.
It’s an interesting idea, but it can’t possibly happen. The federal government has too much military infrastructure in different parts of the US, especially nuclear material. They’d never let anyone secede with it.
ha, if cascadia and new england both seceeded simultaneously.
LOOK. LOOK AT US. WE ARE THE NUCLEAR POWERS NOW.
[Crimson 1] has entered the chat
So did the Brits. Ghandi still got independence
well, there is a grassroots movement I’ve seen in seattle to get all nuclear armaments out of the area, so I feel if cascadia existed as an independent country there’d be at least a little bit of support to return any armaments back to the us.
Fuck that, I’m not getting Ukraine’d.
We also have the top two ports in the US. And if we took the PNW with us nearly all trade from Asia would pass through this theoretical new country before reaching the US.
Edit; also there’s a lot of division between the urban and rural areas of all west coast states. It’s fun to think about, but I don’t see it happening without a major conflict
That’s an argument for leaving PNW behind. Cannon fodder so they let us go peacefully with access to the coast and manifest destiny preserved
The US can manifist my ass. If CA leaves the PNW sure as shit is leaving too. We’re far more liberal than CA.
Can’t hear you over the sound of me cutting the rope below me mwahahaha
And we would have border taxes in those goods.
AND A WALL!!!
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Can we leave out the non coastal Jeffersonians?
West Coat Re-Union
This could lead to a civil war if enough states leave with Cali. What a shitty time to be alive that it has even come to this
It’s not come to anything. They’ve tried this before and it failed. “approved for signature gathering” doesn’t mean shit
just like that one movie, what’s it called
Dude, Where’s My Car?
When Harry Met Sally?
We honestly never really finished the last one. Reconstruction got the rug pulled out from underneath it.
We have a history of being soft on treason
In part because we only exist due to treason.
At least the American revolution wasn’t about keeping slavery
No, but the second was, and at this rate the third one probably will be.
I fear that is going to need settled more finally at some point. That tumor continues to fester.
Here’s to hoping it’s just saber-rattling to remind the feds how important it is to the nation. CA standards benefit way more than just CA residents; i.e. giving other states framework to adopt similar legislation (like emission standards) or even HR practices. Anecdotally, I worked for a CA based company at an east coast office; when they laid a portion of the workforce off, they paid severance to all affected even though many of us were in ‘right to work’ states.
No could about it. It absolutely would.
Lots of peoole didn’t read the article
According to the text of the measure, the state would be required to create a 20-member state commission to study California’s viability as an independent country in 2027 and to publish a report the following year.
…
If the ballot question is approved, the proposal would declare a “vote of no confidence in the United States of America”, but would not change the state’s government or its relationship with the U.S. The measure would also call for the removal of the U.S. flag from all state buildings.Well it’s a start I guess.
Yeah, I can’t think of a reason anyone would vote no on this. I’m excited to read their report.
Balkanization is beginning
