To be clear, I am only talking about people like the average working class Trump voter. The ones who just got caught by misinformation, and just haven’t been able to find a way out. Trump and all his mates are terrible people, and should be held accountable.
The average voter is another thing. My attitude is that I got lucky, and found out that Trump and his mates are terrible, instead of getting sucked down a rabbit hole of supporting them. Knowing how fascism works, I don’t know if I’d be able to reliably land on the right side if fascism happened in my home country. And if I don’t believe I could reliably spot fascism, I’m not comfortable acting like those who support Trump could have.
This isn’t a discussion of “just be a good person”. I know plenty of amazing, caring people who believe they’re doing the right thing.
This whole idea of “I can’t say is reliably avoid fascism” is based on this, the school that became fascist for a week. As bad of an experiment that was from that teacher, it was an effective way of teaching how people fall for what should be obviously a bad thing.
Zero percent. This time the blame lies 100% on the Democrats.
What is an “average working class Trump voter” ?
With private ballots why are you so sure rich upper middle class people didn’t vote for him ?
He won the popular vote. That doesn’t happen with just upper middle class people.
There is literally no difference between a Trump supporter/voter and a Nazi
A lot.
I know there’s a proportion that were simply ignorant and tuned out of politics… but most Trump voters did so over the very loud objections of trans relatives or while openly embracing the nativism.
Lastly, I think that Harris did a terrible job advocating for her election and she owns a fair portion of the blame as well.
Trump wasn’t an unknown this time. He attempted to subvert our election process and he’s a convicted rapist. He openly embraced corruption during his last term and is already shilling crypto bullshit.
Trump voters are terrible selfish people - end of story.
Never forgive, never forget.
If we’re talking the average working class voter, I hold a great amount of sympathy for them. I really do understand where they’re coming from.
The Democrats are corrupt as hell and aren’t doing a damn thing for the American people. Pre-Trump Republicans are corrupt as hell and aren’t doing a damn thing for the American people. The country is legitimately falling apart and there’s no one to turn to.
Here comes this guy out of nowhere who’s never been in politics and thus not beholden to their corrupt schemes. He’s promising to tear down the whole damn system that isn’t working for the average American. He recognizes and acknowledges the plight of working class America. He’s claiming that it needs to break completely before it can be repaired.
This is the reasoning behind my little brother supporting Trump. He’s so desperate for real change that he’s willing to overlook a lot of Trump’s bad behaviors. To my brother, Trump is a useful wrecking ball, a bulldozer coming to forcefully wipe away everything wrong with politics.
Of course, Trump has no real intentions of fixing anything. He’s just there to loot the government and shield himself from the law. All of the right wing supporters, politicians, preachers, and business execs are just stepping stones.
Agreed, this particular type of person I can at least feel empathy for. Feeling the system has failed and deciding that someone who will blow it all up is better than someone who will maintain the status quo.
I feel that people like your brother are in the minority though and most of Trump’s voters like his policies, and so I completely blame them, but that’s just my gut feeling, I don’t have stats or studies.
Sorry bud, but your brother is a Nazi. Voting for fascism just to change things? My ass. If a fascist tells you he’s a fascist, believe him. And fascists don’t want change. They want power.
I’m pretty torn on this to be honest.
On the one hand, propaganda is a hell of a drug especially if you’re already sympathetic to the ideas of one party or another. You want to be able to agree with them or you’re left realizing you have no options at all. It’s a similar thing to those on the left being “forced” to support Democrats even if they basically loath the current party. If not for them then they have absolutely nothing, no hope of any representation at all.
On the other hand, how many times can you be confronted with outrageous situations and such a large, essentially global, consensus that “your team” is just straight up wrong before you realize you’re supporting actual bad people? You’re making a choice to support people doing actual bad things, but again, based on the propaganda you might never believe bad things are actually bad, or are even really happening.
I’ve had many many arguments with my father and I’ve come to realize he absolutely will not accept information that is not what he already wanted to hear. Fox is good when it says “Trump good”, fox is bad when they say “Trump did something wrong.” I pleaded with him to at the very least stop watching the fox primetime peanut gallery where they lie with impunity, that he would be better served watching Fox journalists like (at the time) Shepard Smith. His response was “Smith is too opinionated, I prefer Hannity.” … Sean Fucking Hannity, the guy who’s show is literally an opinion show. He just wants confirmation bias. When a Republican committee release a document it’s gospel, when a Democrat lead committee release something it’s fake news lies.
I blame them collectively for supporting fascists, but I can’t really blame an individual human for being a stubborn ignorant human. It’s our nature to be thick headed. Some way more than others.
“No one is the villain of their own story.” My stubborness is that I choose to believe this quote is true. 99% of people believe they’re doing the right thing, it’s why we even have the cliche of “the road to hell is paved with good intentions.”
I blame them completely. Voters are not children. You’re responsible for your own actions.
Have you seen them at the polls? You’re right, they aren’t children. Individually i think voters are smart, but as a collective they are dumber than children. If you consider that it’s no surprise that Google searches like “did Biden drop out” spiked on election day.
If a grown adult with the mental acuity of a child assaults you and tries to rob you, you are entirely justified in fighting them off and holding them morally culpable for their actions.
If said manchild instead publically advocates for and votes to have someone else do this to you, they are just as morally culpable.
Idiocy may be an explanation, but it is no excuse.
Which is totally fair. I’m just saying there are a fuck ton of people that either don’t care, aren’t invested in politics, or aren’t online as much as we are. Or if they are online they sure as shit ain’t here or on Reddit. They’re on websites like Facebook where they get fed ragebait like it’s candy because it gets facebook more clicks and more money. It’s easy to see these people as just “stupid” but in reality this is the internet to them and that’s all they see. They’re not stupid necessarily, but when it comes to the important shit they’re definitely ignorant.
As the saying goes, you may not be interested in politics, but politics is interested in you.
Democracy doesn’t work if everyone is stupid and misinformed.
Americans currently have an average literacy ability of 5th - 6th graders. Less than 10% of Americans are capable of independently, critically evaluating contrasting information.
A person who chooses to be surrounded by stupidity, and then absorbs that stupidity, is stupid.
Yes, there is a difference between stupidity (low mental aptitude, ability, potential) and ignorance (low actual knowledge set), but ignorance makes you stupid, and stupidity makes you ignorant, or even worse, full of ‘knowledge’ of false facts.
Frankly, I’ll go so far as to say that if you willingly choose to consistently retard your own understanding of the world, by getting all your info from idiots on Facebook or TikTok, then you are definitionally retarded.
I’m very, very tired of acting like misinformed idiots, who continuous choose to become more idiotic and misinformed, who are extremely belligerent, do not accurately fit into this definition.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/retard
Merriam Webster:
retard (verb)
to delay or impede the development or progress of : to slow up especially by preventing or hindering advance or accomplishment
People should always care about politics, understanding it is understanding how your life is governed.
How much do you blame Germans? As in the ones from 1940s?
We might not have started killing people yet but the signs are here, for anyone who cares to know their history. We had a Nazi salute at the inauguration for Christ sake.
Yeah. It’s shocking that your friends and neighbors are party to this. It was to many Germans too.
Given the way AIPAC and the ADL control everything, while advocating lebensraum for their master race… I don’t blame the Germans one hair versus anyone else… the “victim” has become the abuser, raping aid doctors to death in their death camps…
100%
It’s not like we can even blame it on the fire hose of misinformation the Trump campaign will never be able to stop themselves from shitting out
Trump has already been president. He failed so hard that he lost by over 7 million votes after just 4 years and 2 impeachments while in office.
Then he was found liable for rape and had to pay millions, then he was convicted on 34 felony counts of fraud, and still he was still on the hook for federal indictments for his attempt to overthrow the government in 2020 in which not only did many participants serve prison time for, some died in the process of it. Many of Trump’s own officers were also convicted. Giuliani has been sued into bankruptcy and has been disbarred for what Trump asked him to do.
Yeah. That seems like a good idea to give that guy power again. /s
Trump objectively represents the worst that America has to offer to itself and the world.
He lied his ass off to get his first term, no one learned from that.
I genuinely felt sorry for his victims that first time.
Then he lied his ass off for a 2nd term.
This time, I feel like people deserve what they get this time.
To me, they’re just as culpable as Trump this time. Every horrible thing that happens this time have zero hesitation to remind people that they voted for it.
Genocide Joe & Kamala Cheney are why Trump got re-elected a 2nd term. That and the annoying blue MAGA that thought genocide was perfectly acceptable when trying to beat a fascist in an election. This is their fault.
You think trump would be tougher on genocide? You could’ve at least convinced kamala over time, trump though? Haha :') okay
Trump has already been tougher on genocide, dipshit, you just don’t realize it because you’re a BlueMAGA fanatic that spent the last year doing everything you could to deny and downplay the genocide that Biden was overseeing.
I’m British, i have no skin in the game. I’m just on the outside looking in and seeing it for what it is
Well you’re clearly not seeing it for it is, given you’re adopting the hardcore BlueMAGA stance. The fact that you’re not American just makes it even worse that you’re engaging in partisan genocide denial.
I’m not denying any genocide. I’m on palestines side, fuck Israel. But thinking that not voting for kamala was the only way to stop it is a stupid as fuck opinion. Now we’ve still got genocide in gaza AND the rest of the world have up deal with the government your country has ever put into power. Which freshly will likely take a lot of precedence to deal with over dressing with Israel. So now the world has one more catastrophe to deal with. Good job.
And what the hell is this blue maga shit you’re on about?
If you were actually on the side of the Palestinians you’d be aware that there’s a ceasefire and be happy about it. But because it makes Trump looks good just going to ignore it, because you never cared about Palestine.
BlueMAGA is people like you who have adopted all of the behaviors of MAGA, but for the Democrats
We couldn’t even convince her when an election was on the line, against a man they themselves called a fascist!! They would rather see fascism in the US than sanction Israel! They would punish us for not falling in line with genocide!!! Holy shit dude what’s it gonna take to realize that you are already living under fascism (lite) and just as brainwashed as any MAGA voter!!!
Not trying to start an argument, just trying to make a point because I’ve been seeing “Genocide Joe & Kamala Cheney” around a lot lately.
What makes you immune to the propaganda? When I see name calling and throwing blame, it’s the exact same shit we see from Republicans. It just seems childish when we could have had actual debates. I’m not saying Kamala did a good job. She was a trash candidate.
And I’m saying this not to be a dick, honestly. I’m just saying maybe you’ve been drinking the Kool-Aid this whole time. The only difference is that it’s blue raspberry instead of cherry. Maybe give that a thought the next time you call a single dad struggling to buy food for his kids a fascist to his face. Because that’s the easiest way to get them to do the exact opposite of what you want.
I’d love to hear your thoughts about how the genocide in Gaza was all made up
Had a long winded comment written out but decided against sending it because like I said, I’m not trying to start an argument. I’m just trying to raise some points.
But just so you know I don’t think the genocide in Gaza is made up. And i think its fucked up that the US decided it doesn’t matter because Israel is our ally. But at the end of the day I’d vote against fascism any day of the week. Because that’s how you get even more genocide. And an abstained vote is a vote for your enemy.
Not trying to start an argument, just trying to make a point because I’ve been seeing “Genocide Joe & Kamala Cheney” around a lot lately.
That would be because Biden and Harris aided and abetted a genocide for the last 15 months.
It’s a bad argument to blame Biden for what Netanyahu did. Israel is weird subject no American president can be even remotely critical of without getting burned politically
Biden witholding bombs from Israel would hurt his reelection just as much as it would by giving them.
The blowback Biden got for holding up a single arms shipment to Isreal was SEVERE. Not only did it not go far enough to appease those like myself who are appalled at what Netanyahu has not only done but will continue doing, it pissed off every religious nut who thinks that Israel is beyond reproach.
It was a major shot in the foot from the entire country for even attempting to do anything about it.
But not even as major as him just getting old and messing up a debate.
That’s really all it took, that and corporate greed by price gouging Americans and those same corporations calling it inflation and blaming Biden for it.
My biggest gripe with Biden is with Ukraine. It was our chance to shine on the world stage, but Biden always played a day late and a dollar short getting arms shipments to Ukraine.
That and touting those arms shipments primarily by their dollar value, which Trump was quick to seize upon and easily convince morons that Ukraine is just a money pit.
The dollar amount should have been the last thing he mentioned, not the first.
Even without Trump it made people who can’t even afford to put a decent meal on the table for their families wonder why they have it so hard while we’re “shipping billions of dollars to Ukraine”
It took Biden way too long to attempt to explain that the vast majority of the money stays here in the US and is used to create jobs replacing the old arms and ammunition that we’re sending to Ukraine from our own stockpile.
Trump has no substance, but excellent messaging.
Biden has nothing but substance, but terrible messaging.
Yeah you’re just not working with facts. Kamala lost because she didn’t break with Biden on Gaza:
https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/kamala-harris-gaza-israel-biden-election-poll
So why you do the typical… “Genocide is complicated. Biden was actually incredibly young & dynamic, did excellent in the debate” BS maybe you should start looking into facts instead of cult speak
Yes. The ol’ establish yourself as a candidate by putting them at ease by selling yourself as just the younger version of your running mate while simultaneously differentiating yourself among a diverse population of nearly 200 million voters with just 3 months to work with and no time to adjust strategy
Seems easy, have no idea why she could have possibly lost with such an easy task.
Holy shit, BlueMAGA really has taken complete leave of reality; I guess the ceasefire has completely broken your brains. You were so eager for the genocide your candidate was committing to “get worse” under Trump so you could gloat about it, and now that he’s instead proven that Biden could have ended the genocide any time he wanted to, you’ve snapped and fully embraced alternative facts.
Red genocide is SO different from blue genocide isn’t it?
“The left turned me into a fascist waah”
Put a sock in it already. As bad as you may find the Democrats, they are nowhere near magat level insanity.Genocide supporters like you have no leg to stand on when it comes to calling others fascists.
Trump has been trash since the 1980s. He was a garbage president in 2016. If you “fell for it” in 2020 and/or 2024, you’re dumber than dirt.
I blame every GOP vote on the DNC, which stopped having democratic elections to compete and became a grift for PR execs like Jen O’Malley Dillon, who ran the Biden/Kamala not trying to win campaign. At this point the GOP is the only place Americans can democratically vote dissent, the DNC is a Hong Kong-style picked candidate party but with a secret leadership, and the duopoly will NEVER allow a real third party after Perot, but being the right wing party branding-wise EVERY dem (including Cheney MSNBC dems) would need to do so and that would never happen
Fuck anyone who actually voted for trump. Period. Edit: it’s on them to try to redeem themselves
Some of the folk who swallowed the propaganda and want to erase folk like me from the planet may have been conned, but however they got there, their goal is still to hurt other people.
Just to be clear i am not defending the extremists. So before you judge this just remember I’m not talking about shit like QAnon. Those guys can fuck right off.
I don’t hate all of them. They just fell for the propaganda, which none of us are immune to. I don’t think the average republican is as racist or fascist waiting for an opportunity to do shitty things. They are just people that want a better life for themselves and their families like the rest of us do. The problem is that they’ve been led to believe the democrats and immigrants are responsible instead of the literal people they voted into office and the corporations dictating their every choice through algorithms and misinformation. They’ve been bamboozled to the highest degree and we shouldn’t hate them for that. And we’ve been led to believe that republicans are responsible for all of our problems when it’s literally the people we vote into office fucking us over too. We’re both getting fucked by everyone in charge and we all take it in stride when it’s “our guy.”
I remember when I was a kid back in the early 2000’s there was a sentiment between pretty much everyone that the government doesn’t give a shit about us. Sayings like “fuck the system” were ubiquitous when I was I’m high-school regardless of if you were a Republican, Democrat, or somewhere in between. Nowadays we are being manipulated to hate each other for the smallest of reasons because it benefits the powers that be. And that’s not just Republicans. Like, when was the last time you had an actual conversation with a Republican that wasn’t trying to tell them they are wrong and explain why you are right? And when was the last time a Republican talked to you without doing the same thing?
Like when it really comes down to it, why the fuck are we fighting with each other when we all know FOR A FACT we are all being manipulated to hate each other? The extremists can’t fuck right off, but the average American from all backgrounds are being manipulated to hate each other instead of looking at the real issues. And now we have fucking Elmo doing a Nazi salute at the fucking inauguration of the president. And I’m sure a lot of average republicans are just as pissed as everyone else. And for the democrats, Biden just rode off into the sunset like it was another fucking Monday.
It’s all about money and power. If you go through and look at the majority of reasons why you hate the average republican or hate the average democrat, I can guarantee if you go back far enough you will find someone trying to sell you something or make money off you. And when you see the average American regardless of politics out in the wild, are they really that different from you? As long as we keep insulting each other for the dumbest shit, the only thing we are going to accomplish is exactly what they want. When a certain Mario brother brought us all together on a topic for once, how long did it take for us to go back to hating each other? A couple days? A week, maybe?
So I guess TL;DR is no, not really. We are all susceptible to propaganda and we all fall for it. Just remember the next time you’re pissed off at someone, try to think about whether or not it’s your opinion or what someone told you is your opinion. And that goes for both “sides.” The powers that be are bamboozling us all so we ignore the fact that it’s their fault.
