Tactical nukes.
You have to be willing to Luigi these people. We need a thousand more Luigi.
Any other answer is wrong.
I won’t say just vote, but you should do that, too, at every level!
Depending on how much time and money you have:
- Join a union (and give time and money to organising the union)
- Join an antifascist political party (and give time and money to organising the party)
- Lobby your representatives to demand they oppose fascism
- Join protests against fascism
- Join civil society groups that are antifascist (either directly or because they’re pro human rights or anti-racist, or what-have-you) (and give time and money etc.)
- Boycott businesses that are owned by or enable fascists
- Join co-operatives (and give time and money etc.)
- Join community groups (these don’t even have to be political)
- Support local, independent media and good freelance journalists
- Spread the word about all of the above
I’ve ordered these roughly by how effective they’re likely to be. Fair warning, none of the above will instantly fix the problem and I grant that some of them probably seem pretty weak sauce in the face of fascism, but the more people do them, the weaker the fascists will get.
Thanks for all of this. People who are shy or on the fence need to see more people doing most (if not all) of these things. Those of us who do it need to be incorrigible optimists about it even though we may not feel like it
Yes, exactly. There are some things on this list where, if everyone opposed to fascism did one of them, we’d win tomorrow. Realistically, not everyone will, but it’s still the right thing to do, to prise very bit of power from their grasp.
At this point, just voting is as helpful as upvoting a comment. We all need to do more. The time to “just vote” has passed.
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O.K.! 😉🤫🤭
Ok, so serious answer for our friends who don’t live in places without an active culture of protest:
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Vote. No, really. If people actually fucking voted, we wouldn’t be in this mess.
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Give money to advocacy organizations
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Give your time and money to mutual aid organizations
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Read the news (not just on lemmy either)
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CALL your congresspeople. Emails and letters are better than nothing, but do not have the same impact.
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Try to get your friends to do #1-5
I live in a country where voting is compulsory and yet we got Donald trump lite elected. Voting can be part of the solution but it can never be the only thing.
- Vote. No, really. If people actually fucking voted, we wouldn’t be in this mess.
You would think that, but the reality is probably that out if everyone who didn’t vote you would get an even spread so they really don’t make that big of a difference. Take other countries where voting is compulsory like Brazil and Argentina and they also elected extreme right clowns.
out if everyone who didn’t vote you would get an even spread
I don’t think that’s necessarily true. I suspect that the median non-voter is less wealthy than that of the voters.
Take other countries where voting is compulsory
We have compulsory voting in Australia. Presently we have a progressive (left of centre) government. It’s possible or likely that we will elect a right of centre government this year, but not extreme right clowns.
Millei is necessary for Argentina. Would be a bad president in America but that country desperately needed austerity
That’s like saying gasoline is necessary for a house on fire because that house desperately needs liquids. There were other candidates in the election that had much better plans, while I agree that electing the same dipshits that set the house on fire to begin with was out of the question, we had options but the majority choose a clown who will make things worse. It’s almost the definition of cutting the nose to spite the face.
What the hell? We are at upwards 40% poverty rate wdym austerity
Argentina’s core problem is their previous Peronist government’s unsustainable spending and command over the economy. They have spent themselves into a crisis several times due to their high Debt:GDP ratio
Sure I hate Peronists as much as the next guy, however you can’t possibly be arguing in favour of austerity when rampant poverty is killing off your populace. Milei is a piece of shit that perpetuates impoverishment by also taking debt with IMF while cutting national industry via privatisation (none of it is bought by Argentine interests, all of them foreign).
How’s giving money going to help when it would take a million of me to counter a single billionaire?
We don’t need to match a billionaire. We just need to finance lawyers and advocates to work on our behalf.
As bad as things are now, think about how much quicker things would devolve without organizations like planned parenthood, the EFF, and the ACLU.
Just playing devils advocate here. If we are talking about real fascism then usually the vote is rigged by that point. Usually by the point where you already have facism take over voting is already too late.
Vote. No, really. If people actually fucking voted, we wouldn’t be in this mess.
Trump won with the popular vote.
A key element to defeat things like fascism, which build themselves on the popularity of fear, is that voting can’t be free-for-all. Voting should require, or be weighed with, some sort of licensing, testing of sane mind, awareness and understanding of at least current events, review of known association with dangerous anti-society parties, etc.
More people didn’t vote than they did for either candidate. Apathy won.
Means testing voting? What could possibly go wrong?! You do see how horrifically abusable that is, right?
The people who don’t vote don’t count on votes, period. Trump won with the popular vote.
There has not been an US presidential election where the president got more votes than the number of non-voters. If apathy won then it had won every single time.
Yes. And look where it’s gotten us. Oligarchic control
That’s hardly the reason. If you had a multi-party system the voted would be even more spread out between the candidates which makes it even less likely for a candidate to get more votes than the non-voting population. However a multi-party system would significantly lessen the possibility of getting oligarchic control because you wouldn’t have to choose between 2 shitty options, you’d have to have multiple shitty choices for the shittiest one to win.
A key element to defeat things like fascism, which build themselves on the popularity of fear, is that voting can’t be free-for-all. Voting should require, or be weighed with, some sort of licensing, testing of sane mind, awareness and understanding of at least current events, review of known association with dangerous anti-society parties, etc.
This is inherently anti-democratic. Who decides who’s qualified to vote? Is it you, with your infallible understanding of every issue?
Me? Aaaahahaha lol no. If I can’t solve this problem I should also not be put in charge of what happens after the solution, ya know.
As for how to solve it: again, no idea. But that does not remove the fact that it’s an actual problem. Another option would be to allow everyone to vote but weigh the votes on what differently, but I’m sure it’s just about another flavour of the same intrinsic limitation. But it’s defo not something “anti-democratic”: for a system to actually represent and help people, it has to somehow prevent them from shoot their own legs off. If the system allows leg chopping, then those who already have an advantage due to more resources, more reach or more entrenched power, are going to have more, not less, of an advantage once legs start chopping.
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I’m buying some stickers to put on every tesla I see.
Run for political office. The Democrats have no intention of fixing anything, let alone making things better.
And if you believe you’re not qualified or don’t know how to do the job, just remember that both parties are filled with incompetent fools, fakes, conspiracy crackpots, and morons. It would take considerable effort to do worse than some of the people in congress.
Run for office, or find someone worthy and get behind their run. Don’t worry about Republicans for now,vee have to defeat the Democratic establishment before we will have the ability to fight Republicans.
Run for office? With what money?
I don’t want to put a target on my or my families backs 😓
I really want to. But getting started in that is kind of like looking for a door in the castle walls.
Many state and local democratic parties are far ahead of the national party in the progressive shift, too, and it’s absolutely easier to inspire change in a local or state party than the national party.
And it’s not just running for elected offices. In-party roles like chair membership and planning can be effective for driving change in a party, and also be the difference in whether the elections continue to go to the shoe-in forever politicians or someone new. The people supporting a change who have access to the resources of the party are just as important as those running.
And if anyone is thinking “my city/county/state party is so tone deaf/old/corporate” consider that they might simply need someone younger or more progessive to become more involved. In an ideal world, they’d be able to speak more with the community, but sometimes they are understaffed or unaware and rely on who is involved to provide context. Become that context.
Well, both parties are also filled with money and other resources needed to ensure that only two parties can succeed.
We need alternative voices in office, but I don’t think that’s happening without some form of revolution. The best one can hope for in lieu of that is co-opting a party’s direction over a span of decades, like the fascists did to the GOP.
If you can’t organize a political movement, you definitely can’t organize a revolution. Also, if history is a guide, the people with wealth tend to end up in power after a revolution.
Lenin was not wealthy. Stalin was not wealthy. Despite the many failings of the USSR, let us not forget that compared to life under the Tzars it was a smashing success.
And it did put power in the hands of people who weren’t born to privilege.
I wonder how well thought past revolutions actually were. Did they seriously plan what they will do after they win or did things just move on and suddenly they had to come up what to do now.
Anyways, people with wealth taking power is definitely something that must be planned against or you might as well not do anything in the first place.
Politics stopped working at the federal level, and only some states are full democracies.
So running for local office either won’t help at all, because the fight is not there. Or it’s a dangerous futile thing to do - if one were to be outspoken and all public against injustice.
The only hope for many is to make new things while breaking as little of the old as possible
Same as anything else. Go talk to people who you consider fascist, understand their point of view and concerns, and then make arguments to them in terms of those concerns.
Frankly, I don’t think that it’s likely an incredibly-entertaining task.
I also think that the term “fascist” has a pretty extensive history of being overused, though I suppose from the standpoint of this, doesn’t really matter much.
The word fascism is rarely overused, people just don’t understand that fascism is the most common political ideology in the western world. People think that fascism only applies to jack booted thugs and concentration camps when it is really just banal bigotry and arrogant incompetence.
Yeah I mean, can’t a guy just love Hitler and be a white supremacist without being call a nazi anymore? The left always have a way overusing terms, right. /s (in case)
The people who are ignorant of what they voted for are persuadable. People who I consider fascists only understand one thing.
Luigi
Imagine the memes if someone started shooting Nazis and his name happened to be Mario
And how do we fight people like Luigi?
Found the healthcare exec
When you fight one evil with another evil, it’s natural to ask how to deal with the second one after it eliminates the first one.
That’s some Batman level bullshit argument.
How so? What he did isn’t encouraged by any means.
Why would I want to fight a man who did more for our citizenry with 3 bullets and a few seconds than the occupy movement and the entire DNC combined managed to accomplish in fucking decades?
Indiana Jones had the right idea
Luigi did nothing wrong
Did nothing wrong
just don’t vote. Its not my method but I heard from a lot of folks who feel that can fight fascism. you mileage may very.
The problem with violence is that the bad guys are usually better at violence.
I wouldn’t say better at violence, just better equipped.
I wouldn’t say better at violence, just better
equippedfunded.FTFY.
Not true. Japan was definitely the Bad Guys. US was able to commit more violence then they were.
The US wasn’t the good guys against Japan. They just were slightly less bad for about 5 years before and 6 months after.
So you don’t know your history.
Or they know that there weren’t any “Good guys” around.
The Japanese war crimes are well known in the West. The US ones are routinely glossed over or ignored.
Wars don’t determine who was right. They determine who’s left.
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The 105000 in Tokyo not enough? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo The 25000 in Dresden not enough? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden The 246000 in Hiroshima and Nagasaki not enough? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki Post war casualties? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties
But those civilian casualties aren’t in the millions unless you count the post war casualties. That makes the US a “Good guy”. Right?
You’re joking, right? Nazi Germany wishes they could commit genocide in the scale of the early US.
Woo hoo…? I guess!
Sure but to Japanese Americans where the bad guys. Which is why the real world is more complicated then a movie but everyone wants to make it black and white.
In all fairness there are non violent support roles
Somebody has to build the drones and c4 kits
It’s not that people die commiting acts of violence, it’s that people minding their own business or just trying not to be violent, also end up violently dismembered with their families.
Supporting the violence is participating in it. Maybe you’re on the “good” side but still. If you work a normal 9-5 go home shoot the shit with your buds and volunteer at a homeless shelter… You’re still not a good person when your job is making bombs getting shipped to Israel.
#VITA
Violence really, really fucking sucks.
It may be necessary, but if there’s any other option you should look to that first. If it legitimately comes to violence a lot of innocent people are going to suffer in a big way.
Yeah, I feel like violence is evangelized online in odd ways.
The class that suffers the most in violent uprisings is the lowest class. By orders of magnitude. For every member of the bourgeois that is taken down, tens or hundred or thousands of every day people are injured or killed.
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I agree with your anti-violence stance, but can’t ignore the reasoning behind it.
I don’t believe there’s some special class that either accumulates or breeds violence. I don’t believe that the “lowest” class, whatever that might be, is fixed on killing its kin. The people ruling Nazi Germany certainly weren’t the “lowest” class when they were making their impactful decisions, many of which killed members of other classes, not theirs.
Neither Trump nor Musk are “low” class, yet they tend to hold the more absurd and anti-human views, separating people into worthy and not-so-much and believing they can make destinies.
There are dangerous people in our world, which are often attracted by power, often any sort of power they can rise to. Violence included.
Regardless, violence only breeds violence, for so many reasons that no comment can hold. Violence traumatizes and creates examples and “Why can’t I, too?..” questions, etc.
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I don’t get you americans
I’m Russian, living in Russia, who’s never even been abroad.
But no, you can find thousands of the posts saying “peaceful ways have been all tried and failed”.
I was agreeing with you the whole time, saying that violence is never the answer and does eventually bring peace and prosperity.
Im just going by history. hitler, stalin, polpot everyone thought themselves to be the low class and went on to kill millions of the low class.
If I consider myself to be the upper class, will that make me upper class? Most likely not, so I don’t see how that makes literal top figures of their state at their respective time anywhere near “lower” classes.
The tyrants you’ve mentioned also all lived in the 20th century and operated within very hierarchy-based political systems, at least in terms of influence. Each had immense power of their country and everyone around, and especially everyone lower in the hierarchy. There is nothing “low” class about any of this.
“kill ceos” will end up with timmy who used to work the cashier walking along a mass grave and shooting blindfolded sara from call center, thomas who runs a joinery firm and their daughter abby in the back of the head so they fall into a grave they dug. Its how these things work and its what the people who call for violence want in to end up as.
This is what I’m agreeing with.
You just seem oddly focused on the class aspect of this, especially the “lower” class, in a way that seems condescending and patronizing. All I’m saying is that it seems very disrespectful and a wrong thing to focus on.
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But it’s already happening. They’re already suffering.
“They” (we) aren’t being killed en masse.
Sure so violence is messy painful so just let it happen. And people wonder how America got to where it is.
Peace as a choice is only possible when the option of violence exists.
There were other options. I think those other options failed at this point in time.
Hanlon’s razor dictates that we should not attribute to malice that which can be attributed to incompetence.
So, by posting this response, you are very, very stupid. You are incompetent of understanding the fundamental difference between the VIDEO of Elon saluting Adolf Hitler, and the IMAGES of all these people waving.
If you respond to this, you’re showing that you have enough intelligence to understand the difference between Elon’s gesture and a wave, so you’re therefore defending his sieg heil and you remove all doubt that you are a Nazi, and therefore unwelcome here, or anywhere.
I guess you have a third choice of claiming it was a joke or a shit post or whatever.
Show me ONE of those photos as a video making the actual gesture.
Just one.
His spokesperson in Italy said that he meant to say “I give my heart to you” with that gesture. I mean, dude, just own it up. It’s not like there would have been any repercussion.
Why haven’t i seen this side by side with Nazis? Or him put in the rally or along side Hitler etc?
These all seem like simple edits
Well that’s a little on the nose isn’t it.
It’s a weird salute he’s doing there that guy on the left.
Some kind of awkward excitement reaction i guess.
His heart really goes to his people, doesn’t it?
I did this one…
I wonder what he is thinking, that is odd looking face
It’s the face of effort. Dude probably doesn’t get off of the computer chair very much, and lifting his arms above the ‘loose hang, elbows bent, wrists resting on desk’ takes a lot of effort, and thus the grimace from struggling.
Nah, it’s just drugs. I mean, I think Elon Musk strikes me as a person who’d love to have the… for the lack of a better word, “courage” to perform the Nazi salute under such circumstances when actually totally sober, but a guy that had to fake Path of Exile 2 success is simply not gonna throw a Nazi salute on stage, even in front of people he sees as supports and loyalists.
I wonder if that absolutely bizarre specimen has been truly sober in last years. Or ever, if we count being high up your own ass as an altered state.
There where options they didn’t work.
To be fair, both Ghandi and MLK Jr. showed that there is an alternative to violence that can be very effective in gaining support.
That being said, I do think the Black Panthers/Malcom X were very instrumental in the civil rights movement. I think the leadership saw two options: work with MLK Jr. or deal with the Black Panthers.
Of course, the FBI, amongst other groups in power at the time were able to successfully thwart MLK Jr.'s attempt at educating people about class consciousness. MLK Jr. wasn’t just fighting for equal rights among racial lines, but also economic lines.
Hell, Jesus Christ was able to start an entire religion based in nonviolent protest based around class consciousness. Of course, that religion has since been perverted, but the point still stands.
They only worked with the threat of violence if they failed.
And they’ve both been WAY watered down in modern tellings…
Gandhi could grind the whole subcontinent to halt just by asking. It was economic violence in a sense.
MLK and the Civil Rights Movement have been majorly white-washed since they happened. That narrative is a big reason why protests since have been largely ineffectual in the US.
MLK supported the Black Panthers and Malcolm X and said that the only reason that he didn’t do anything more than the sit-ins and such was because that was already illegal and anything more could get them all jail time. And he was still seen as being just as violent as they made BLM out to be.
The Million Man March was seen as a threat of violence by white America. If he could get a million people to mobilize in the capital and shut down the entire city, what else could he get them to do?
Also, civil rights were only put into law after a full-on week of violence that burned down entire sections of cities and did millions in property damage. Years of protests led to flowery words. A week of riots saw the bills written, voted on, and codified into law.
Violence isn’t the answer; it’s the path.
Compulsory voting.
If you don’t vote, you don’t get to take deductions on your federal taxes and you don’t get any owed tax refund. When you do vote, you also get an extra 3% discount on federal tax owed until your AGI is over $190k.
I don’t hate this idea.
We do it in Australia and it’s super based.
We usually do sausage sizzles at the polls 👍
How does this fix a two party system that does not represent the people?
OK, so a bit over a third of the population doesn’t care enough to vote. Not for anyone - D, R, or any third party. Let’s assume they’re mostly uneducated. What happens to the polling results when you compel them to vote?
I think compelling voter turnout is the last thing you should be even considering. The first real problem is education - nobody understand anything about government - not what fascism is, not how the economy works, not what imperialism is, nothing of real substance. The second problem is this “lesser of two evils” bullshit that has even the slightly-more-educated half of the population voting for mass murderers, which you can’t resolve in first-past-the-post majority rule elections, at least not with the stupid mindset everyone has right now. Electoral college is a similar problem. And what about the problems with “representative” government both failing to represent and manipulating public will for the benefit of powerful lobbies? How about systemic reform that removes their power?
You thought about any of these things?
Love this idea. Just make voting as easy as paying taxes.
The ear guy tried.
