.zip lemmings chillin’
There was a good comment by @pjwestin@lemmy.world the other day on an angry anti-.ml post:
Before joining Lemmy: “It really doesn’t matter what instance you join, you’ll be able to see content from all over.”
After joining Lemmy: “So you’ve enlisted in .world, eh? Welcome to the fight, soldier!”
What’s the beef here? I’m out of the loop.
There’s currently about 600 lemmy instances, in many different countries, and those countries each have different laws regarding the protection of speech. Some of it is also just power-tripping mods or left-wing / right-wing censorship.
If this is happening to a community you like, you can always switch to the same community in a different instance. Eventually, the “official” community will have the most subscribers and the community with the censorship problems will wither and die.
Lemmy.world is very liberal leaning and defederated from the Marxist aligned instances. Lemmy.ml is more broadly federated and has Marxist mods and admins, and more leftist users in general.
That’s it. Some users make it a fight.
I’m pretty progressive leaning and just joined .world because I had no idea what lemmy was and was tired of reddit but I thought it didn’t matter what one you joined since you can see all the other instances correct? Or am I wrong here, like if I go to All it shows pose from all instances? Have been curious why I have seen so much far left as in comrade leftist post so I guess that adds up if .world is where they mainly hang out. But again I still don’t completely understand lemmy but I enjoy it more than reddit
Instances are like islands, with bridges between others. Some instances sever their bridges to other islands so their citizens can’t see any of that content and the other island’s users can’t comment.
Lemmy.world is defederated from instances like Hexbear.net and Lemmygrad.ml, so you can’t see their comment. Hexbear is mostly an Anarchist and Marxist hangout, Lemmygrad is specifically Marxist-Leninist and takes itself a bit more seriously. Your “All” feed doesn’t show anything from them.
Instances also matter because some have great local feeds based on niche interests, that’s part of why I like Hexbear and find it great to browse locally. .world is more of a Reddit replication.
Wait did world defederare from ml after all? I thought it hadn’t. Because people keep complaining about ml and I still see memes.ml and comments from ml users. Or is it one of these things where federation works in ways that are more complex than most of us assume? Is it that the other instances defederated from world? But I’ve seen ml users comment on my comments. Argh federarion is confusing…
there are multiple instances whose domains end in .ml. lemmygrad.ml and lemmy.ml and the ones that i’m aware of.
lemmy.ml is the primary instances where Lemmy was (and is) originally developed from and that’s usually what they’re referring to when they say .ml
Gotcha thanks
Great explanation thank you!
No problem!
It’s our version of sports teams
Would be more fun for it to be soccer or chess or something, lol
Chess boxing it is
Wild, lmao!
What exactly are instances? I picked one at random that claimed to be “general purpose” because I didn’t know what I was doing (I migrated very recently)
Instances are like islands, with their own cultures and rules. Hexbear.net, for example, is for Communists and Anarchists to hang out and talk about news, gaming, art, etc, while dbzer0 is an instance focused on piracy, AI, and has a techie anarchist slant, Lemmy.world is very much Reddit 2, etc.
Each of these islands has their own communities, but other islands that are federated can visit these communities. Some instances have strict federation policies like Hexbear.net, which it uses to protect its large trans userbase, while others take the opposite approach like lemm.ee, allowing users to subscribe to any comms across the fediverse they like (that aren’t defederated from lemm.ee, which is generally few).
I recommend finding some instances you are interested in, and browsing locally to see if it would be a good fit for you. Then, check if other instances you are interested in are federated with it, so you can see what you want when sorting by all. In my opinion, the biggest strength of Lemmy is in having niche userbases on the same general page, that can then interact with other instances.
Wait…you can browse instances without making an account??? Whoops, lol, I guess I was a little too eager to get Boost for Lemmy working with an account of my own immediately following Boost for Reddit getting nuked.
Is there a good way to browse instances? (Particularly through Boost?)
Also, what are the instances… literally? Like, I’ve never seen social media have groups like this (tied to the account, and separate from the communities, that is)
Yep, you can browse instances just by visiting their sites! It’s how I signed up to the couple I use, not sure how Boost handles it, I just use my mobile web browser (Hexbear has emojis you can use if you use the web version, so I just use that). I am sorry about not knowing Boost specifically, my fiancé uses Voyager.
As for what instances literally are, they are their own websites and servers, but they can talk to each other, think email. Gmail can talk to protonmail, etc
So, Lemmy is a bunch of separate social media networks that seamlessly* connect to each other? That’s… really cool
very liberal leaning and defederated
For me, “slight liberal leaning” is more appropriate for them
If instance A and B block each other, can a user on instance C still see all the posts from B and A?
What worries me is the drop in posts if things fracture.
Instance C is unrelated to A and B blocking each other. Why wouldn’t it be able to see posts from either unless it was also blocked?
Okay but in post A, people from B won’t chime in, and conversely for things posted to B.
I guess instance C can make posts where both people from A and B can chime in. So would people in instance A be able to talk to people in instance B in the instance C’s comment section? Cause A people don’t want to hear from B people.
So we would still see less active posts as interactions would go down.
The users and posts in instance B are invisible to users in instance A. Regardless of if the messages are in instance C
Yep. That’s one reason I like the instance I’m on - I can basically see everything, and just block the stuff I don’t want to see.
Given your concern. I would recommend joining a instance with as few defederations as possible and blocking instances yourself. You don’t need a admin to determine what you want or need to see with your experience here on lemmy.
Block instances/communities/users yourself and make it how you want. Or not. It’s your lemmy, use it how you wish. Peace.
How might one/I find an instance with very few de-federations? What are examples of such instances. Thanks, and, just as you say, peace.
You’re already on one, to be fair, but the classic is lemm.ee.
deleted by creator
It would drop some engagement, sure, but either side of the liberal/leftist divide already has enough people to sustain itself.
Aren’t liberals and leftists the same thing? Everyone seems to agree that capitalism is bad, the government should provide more social services, our democratic leaders suck (but we should vote for them anyway because republicans are worse), etc.
Honestly Lemmy seems more like a circlejerk than a divide, the only divide I see is how far we need to go to fix/destroy the system. I don’t think I’ve seen a single conservative voice, which is pretty surprising considering Trump apparently won the popular vote, and I’d expect I’d at least see someone from the other side.
Liberalism is the ideological component of Capitalism. It supports things like private property and whatnot, so Capitalist ideologies typically fall under its umbrella.
Leftism is a broad anticapitalist categorization of ideologies like Marxism and Anarchism.
What you describe as “everyone” is the more progressive side of liberalism, but not leftists. Leftists go farther and say that to fix those issues, we need Marxism or Anarchism, generally.
That’s because they feed off each other: the liberals throw lots of shit at the wall in the hopes of driving up their engagement from their large but inactive user base while the leftists engage on their own; this creates an environment where the tiny subset of the most active liberals are left alone w the leftists and theyre predisposed to hate tankies, hence the drama.
Yes, and even if A blocks B but A posts something on a community from C, then B sees it but A won’t see their comments under it
Who could have guessed that trying to bring together people with opposing views would generate so much attrition…
all i know is sh.itjust.works
Out of the loop, what’s going on?
Regular .world vs .ml shenanigans
From what I’ve seen, a lot of the toxicity is trickling down from the powermods. Same issue migrated from Reddit.
Probably some of the same powermods doing it
I would bet money that you’re right.
Mods will always be a problem.
I’ve yet to encounter a well adjusted human who voluntarily mods.
I just think it’s neat.
Maybe we need a draft.
My preference is for completely community moderated platform.
People essentially vote for content moderation. Likely susceptible to gamification but I’m still interested in seeing it in practice.
Considering the use of downvote bots already, I don’t see that working any better. But then I don’t have any better ideas.
dbzero on top. even after beefing with and being banned from another instance the admins let us stay federated.
.ml banning the dbzero admin instead of defederating will never not be funny.
“The users are fine, it’s just the admin”
Is this one of those things where lemmy users “remember” things that happened to hexbear, or are you telling me that the dbzero admins also got themselves banned from .ml and dessalines also decided not to defed?
Wasn’t that Hexbear that banned dbzer0? Or was that also Lemmy.ml?
.world, hexbear, and another big one all defederated with dbzer0 since they host a lot of piracy and grey area legal content.
Hexbear is federated with dbzer0, I have no idea why you think otherwise. They banned the admins for being Anticommunist, but left it federated because Hexbear is pro-piracy and there are cool dbzer0 users
Ah my bad, might have gotten my instances mixed around, I thought there were three big instances that defederated with dbzer0
I think it’s just lemmy.world, and they actually aren’t defederated from dbzer0, they just blocked the piracy community specifically. I think dbzer0 is pretty much fully federated with all the major servers except for lemmygrad. With .world blocking the piracy community, it only affects their users, dbzer0 users can still participate in any lemmy.world content.
There may have been, but Lemmy.ml is fine with Piracy it seems and Hexbear is explicitly pro-piracy.
Ah okay, thanks! :)
I could be misremembering, but I can see dbzer0 content so I guess both instances came to the same conclusion lmao.
dbzer0, lemmy.zip and lemm.ee have all been consistently great.
The propaganda recycling isn’t great, but it’s at the (VERY) least not much worse than reddit, facebook, or legacy media
The propaganda recycling isn’t great
.ml
lol
As an ex-dbzero, it’s a solid choice!
Blahaj can start fostering an inclusive community and stop legitimizing trolls whenever they want drama to stop
Fighting trolls should not be done by invalidating neopronouns, speak to anyone that uses neopronouns and they’ll likely tell you that it quickly cascades into witch hunting.
Ada how many accounts do you have?
What do you mean? My name’s not Ada, and I have 2, this one and the Hexbear version under the same name.
Yeah this is why people are leaving, you think they are stupid and it’s insulting.
Ada & Cowbee are not the same person, so who’s stupid now?
Legitimately what are you talking about? Who is Ada?
It’s just basic maffs, Cowbee:
- Any given opinion can only be held by one person in the universe.
- Admin Ada @ blahaj and you have the same opinion regarding neopronouns.
- Therefore you and Ada incontrovertibly must be the same person.
Oh, that’s funny. Pretty sure Ada would hate me for being a Marxist, so that’s especially strange.
Is it still invalidating when someone using neopronouns is doing so disingenuously?
Again, invalidating neopronouns is a cascading issue that results in witch-hunting and should be avoided.
Not sure I agree as it seems like black and white thinking.
I.e. I could imagine a scenario where someone is very obviously/admits to using neopronouns disingenuously and that would break my social contract with them to honour it.
If I make an assessment of neopronoun usage on a case by case basis I can still avoid witch hunts. It’s similar to how I determine in real life if someone is an asshole or not.
Another way; I can support a person who I genuinely believe uses neopronouns while denouncing and excluding someone who doesn’t.
It is a very tricky slope. It’s best to never compromise on neopronoun usage even with suspected trolls, they can be discredited without erasing the pronouns.
Ideally the network corrects by users moving away from the drama instances so they don’t get randomly cut off.
I’ve no idea if my instance causes any drama or not. And what if it does in the future?
Ideally content is properly cross posted. But no big deal if not.
Hopefully some day people can view “shitposting” “All” and be able to see shitposting communities no matter their instance. (Minus those they defederate of course)
Is there a federation map somewhere so you can see what instances are federated with each other and which are not?
I’d also be interested in knowing that.
Someone answered the comment above with a link, go check it out!
Yes.
https://federation-checker.vercel.app/
This link lets you type in an Instance name and it will tell you what other Instances allow it and which ones block it.
There’s also this site, which gives you more options for filtering, but also seems to throw up errors pretty consistently in my experience.
In terms of figuring out which instances are cool with one another, this site is also quite useful. It’s a web of trust model that a majority of major instances participate in.
It shows which instances endorse one another, with those instances obviously being federated. It also shows how instances choose to describe/tag themselves, which can give you a better understanding of their general vibe. And it also shows which instances are viewed with suspicion, as they are hesitated or censured by other instances.
@Martineski pinging you
Thank you. Spot on.
I’m also seeing bizarre infiltrations of instances by likely paid teams of saboteurs who know exactly how to deFed the federated.
The reason corporate social media sucks is its monopolistic nature. “Instance wars” are why lemmy is better than reddit, which consists of exactly one instance.
Yeah, right. That totally makes Lemmy better. It’s so pleasant to always bicker and threaten to defederate from each other. It’s also so unlike Reddit where Subreddits brigade each other and have sub wars. Lemmy is so unique in that… /s
What we need is a strongman to come along and tell everyone what to do.
Solidarity amongst all instances.
Our fediverse comrades.
💯 together we are stonger
Hey drama is part of social media, it drives engagement plus we are hashing out this place should work. Also power tripping mods sub is great, solid discussions
it drives engagement
Defenestrate corporate media framing. There are no advertisers to market social media “engagement” to. We are not the product. In fact there is no product, just as there is no customer.
Engagement is just “emotional involvement or commitment”, it’s not necessarily “corporate media framing”. Capitalist platforms abuse this for profit (as they do with everything good), hopefully we can use it to create stronger communities.
It attracts new blood. People need to be posting and commenting for a place to have a future.
Different type of engagement. Not “how lomg you view ads, click rate, view rate, etc” but just posting and commenting.
