Lemmy has a strong tendency to criticize the US, and a lot of the critiques of certain issue with the US are valid. However, I started getting really tired of opening comment sections in innocuous and non-political posts only to see that someone somehow found a way to criticize the US in it. At first, I started thinking that maybe some Lemmy users are really unhappy and find criticizing a something stronger helped them feel better as if standing up to injustice was a passion of theirs. But, we don’t see them do that with other targets, just the US. The more I notice and think about it, I’m starting be suspicious that some of those users and comments aren’t authentic, but made to create divisiveness in the West and reject the US entirely. In other words, they may be Russian, Chinese, et al. agents working to feed a stream of propaganda in order to further cause chaos and lack of unity in the West as we have seen them do before.
Anyone else think about this?
This is what I’m thinking the game plan is:
- Criticize something obviously unjust that the US has done. Ignore that all other major powers have also committed atrocities.
- Link and liken it to other US matters & behaviors
- Paint the US entirely as evil so that nothing the US can do is just
- Attack anyone that supports anything out of the US (we are between here and #3 above)
- Create a black-and-white model of geopolitics: US vs everyone else. EU and Russia on the same team lol
- West fragments as US and EU relationship dwindle from pseudo-populist movements (e.g. MAGA)
- Pick specific countries in the EU to start alienating and repeat the cycle
- ???
- Profit in special economic zones
Have you seen America lately?
I understand the concern and certainly believe that troll farms are slowly creeping into Lemmy as it gains traction. However, I think most of US bashing is authentic as it reflects the enormous impact of US political life on the rest of the planet. Moreover, other countries receive a constant flux of information about the US, to the point where it seems that US news is as important as domestic news. The fact that Trump remains omnipresent in the media doesn’t help either.
I get this part, and I agree with a lot of critique. What I’m noticing is that it seems that I’m seeing more hate than valid objective critique. It seems to me that a lot of the anti-US comments are merely to criticize the US out of hate than to criticize a behavior.
Imagine it were people instead of countries. This is like being at a party with friends and Marcel is not present. Marlon shares that he likes coffee without creamer. Martiza says she does too. Misty then says, “Did you know that Marcel uses raw milk instead of creamer in his coffee? What a piece of shit. It wouldn’t surprise me though. Everything he does is terrible. Remember, he cheated on Mariah in 2006. He’s probably cheating on Merced right now.” That’s completely unnecessary and irrelevant.
That’s what it feels like to me. It’s not just critique. It’s hate in discussions that are irrelevant to the US. That’s been my observation at least, but I’m bringing it up to see if maybe I’m a bit too suspicious or paranoid.
OK, thanks for the simile, it makes sense. I didn’t notice the trend but it might be so. I tend to skeem through / skip entierly comments that are clearly not on topic. Also, I like that all you characters have a name that starts with M!
Thanks, and you’re welcome!
Martiza says she does too. Misty then says, “Did you know that Marcel uses raw milk instead of creamer in his coffee? What a piece of shit. It wouldn’t surprise me though. Everything he does is terrible. Remember, he cheated on Mariah in 2006. He’s probably cheating on Merced right now.”
I don’t think those are good analogies. US foreign policy has really screwed up some other countries. It’d be more like “Remember when Marcel burned Mariah’s house down? And that time Marcel got Misty fired from her job? And that time Marcel stole Merced’s car?”
The US has had some very positive effects on the international community, but people tend to remember how the world’s only remaining superpower screwed them over.
Fuck the US hyper-centrism. If this place was so anti US, why are all the communities titled “News” and “Politics” exclusively for discussing seppo shit? This place is less US-centric than other platforms but is still extremely US focused. If you look for more than a second, you will find anti-russia, anti-china, anti-israel and anti-germany shit too (just to name a few). Finally, I just want to say, fuck the United States of America and everything that that hellhole represents. I am sorry that you have to live there
find criticizing a something stronger helped them feel better
🤦
Are you for real? And you are surprised US and USians get criticised?
I’m American. I’ll jump on the criticize America bandwagon any day!
So, no, we suck in the worst possible ways. That is really all there is to it
As a French guy, I can say that I suck way more than you. America has the American dream. France has the “we suck, we complain about it all the time, and we’re proud of it” vibe.
France also has the “take my rights, we take your head” attitude. I like that.
Nowadays it’s the modern version: “we don’t like that, and we’ll complain very loudly about it.”
American here. When you elect a man—twice—whose character and policies have led to a fractured nation, a failing education system, crumbling infrastructure, and a healthcare system that leaves millions behind, it’s no surprise that the world views us with disdain. When your citizens are struggling to afford basic necessities like rent and groceries while a handful of individuals hoard wealth that rivals entire nations, we’ve earned every ounce of criticism.
Buckle up, because the descent into this nightmare is far from over. The worst is yet to come, and it’s going to be a long, suffocating fall.
Don’t forget one of our largest cities is currently on fire because of our own man made climate change that we are (I believe) the number one cause of, but those same leaders are telling us to shrug and say “who knows why”
I find it a little frustrating that you think any of this started with, because of, or will end with cheeto.
This:
a fractured nation, a failing education system, crumbling infrastructure, and a healthcare system that leaves millions behind
has always been the case, and it is a feature, not a bug. Always has been.
And it will never change as long as you continue to focus on the things the system tells you to focus on (like team red vs team blue, or the clown at the front of the stage) rather than on the system itself (a state mechanism built on slavery and genocide from day dot, and designed and enforced by and for the rich and powerful, who are the ones actually pulling the strings) and abolishing that.
And before OP gets their underwear in a twist - all states are oppressive and should be abolished, but a country founded on and with the biggest hard on for capitalism on the planet, and who has the power to, and has been since its founding, loudly and aggressively dragging the rest of the world on a race to the bottom (if not directly with war mongering and political interfering, then with profiteering off of their enemies war mongering and politically interfering), deserves all the criticism it gets, and the fact that it’s easier for you to create a straw person to dismiss the perfectly valid and long overdue criticism, than it is to hear them and sit with the mild discomfort it causes you to hear the truth and confront reality, is a you problem, not a lemmy problem.
!AskUSA@discuss.online seems fine
I’m American and the main reason I don’t aim the same criticism towards other countries is that I’m American and don’t know enough about them. Maybe some people are agitating for malign purposes, but how much does that matter to a responsible netizen? No one knows who anyone is - maybe idiot takes are made by idiots or bad actors, it doesn’t change much. Lastly, one quote stuck with me after the last election season : " the reactionary is always right about what is wrong but almost always wrong about what would be right"
Whenever something occupies the entirety of the media landscape, it’s bound to have at least some legitimate detractors.
As for specific decisive propaganda, let’s say Russia and China, yes it’s there, but they’re more sophisticated than just going “America bad”. China usually sticks to generalized anti-western hegemony, and Russia usually goes the Newt Gingrich route of choosing wedge issues.
While there’s a lot of “Americans bad” sentiments going around, a lot of it is legitimate opinions while others default to it due to their tankie background. I think the actual propaganda segment is fairly low.
The best thing you can do with your free speech, while you’ve still got it, is to exercise it as much as you can. Call them on their bullshit. Call EVERYONE on their bullshit. We need more people aware of the absurdity of the world we live in.
No
strong tendency to criticize the US
The whole world has been criticizing the USA since I was born 50 years ago. All I remember is that their way of life is declining all the time, they lied to go to war with Irak, and now they elected Trump, which makes is worse.
someone somehow found a way to criticize the US in it
I can say the reverse. All the time I see Americans talking about the USA in conversations where it is not the topic. What do you think about this? Like someone made a pizza in a random Asian country, and the whole conversation will switch to how NY pizzas are the best.
they may be Russian, Chinese, et al. agents
You’re paranoid. It’s the internet, it’s global, everyone criticizes everyone else. As for causing chaos, you elected one of the most disgusting felon who exists, the chaos is already there.
I mean we’d be fools to think there aren’t bots and propaganda here, but overall I think it’s just that Lemmy leans left and the left isn’t particularly proud of what we’ve become.
For the past 80 years, we’ve made the world a worse place for the benefit of Americans. Which I get, to a point. Our government is elected to take care of American interests. Sometimes that’s not pretty and often I don’t agree with what has been done in my name, but I can appreciate that someone was rung to do what was right for the country.
But over the past 25 years, it’s no longer about what’s best for Americans and is about what’s best for American wealth. That doesn’t include most of us. So there is very little redeeming about our government now, and this is what a majority is voters wanted. Welp…
Welcome to a non US centric platform. Twitter, Facebook, Reddit,Digg, etc are all US centric platforms so there will be a pile-on when US criticism is mentioned.
Lemmy.world is not a US centric instance so you don’t see the pile-on. You get actual opinion on an over represented country.
Honestly, most of it seems like edgy kids who learned about communism from a YouTube video and are now convinced they have the secret to a better world that nobody else understands. So many of the comments display a substantial lack of understanding about the real world. Many other comments are completely disingenuous, blatantly ignoring or attacking anything that doesn’t support their singular argument. They’re the viewpoints of inexperienced teenagers, not adult discussions.
There are certainly propaganda posts and communities, but I think the majority of the work is done by actual people who are just echoing what they’ve read or heard. Filter out a few key communities and a lot of it will disappear.
But, to answer your question more directly, yes, I do feel what you’re saying and it gets annoying. Sometimes it gets overwhelming and I consider just deleting my account entirely. I’m so very tired of only seeing the extremes of either side of the pendulum online, rather than having a place for discussion with people of all viewpoints. I’m tired of the polarization.
I’m less worried about the anti-American tendencies than about the pro-Russian and pro-Chinese ones.
There are cases where they legitimately offer something better so they are viewed favorable. Especially China for some regional investments.
These are in my opinion good reasons and you have to ask yourself what the West can do better to change it.
We could always emulate China and start rounding up our minorities into camps and arresting any citizens who speak out. Would that be better?
Read a history book.
Because how could anyone support the country with a higher living standard than America changed in the time frame of one generation, right?
North Korea really is amazing isn’t it?
!If you don’t get it, North Korea allegedly is a wonderful place to live with very high living standards but obviously isn’t. Closed communication countries like China, North Korea, and increasingly Russia’s claims about “how good things are” must be taken with an absolute grain of salt. Unfortunately, this list could even come to include the United States soon given Trump’s desire to silence critics.!<
A grain of salt? More like a truckload.
Your wasteful sarcasm aside, what China has done for its people economically and for standard of living is unbelievable. Continue your whataboutism though
That may be true as long as you are on party line.
Bro thinks 1.1 billion people work for the government.
I mean, if by those metrics alone you mean to tell that it’s a great country, 1940’s Germany must really appeal to you. After all they did an economic miracle no one thought possible and the standard of living of their citizens increased dramatically. Who cares that they murdered millions of people, those were not REAL citizens, right?..
The PRC has big problems, that it is Guantanmo-ing or arresting and using as prison slaves at least three ethnic minorities for thought crimes is an atrocity.
But the huge increase of living standards for all Chinese citizens, including those of persecuted minorities when they’re not being locked up for ideological reasons is almost unbelievable.
Over a billion people have gone from not having plumbing to having indoor toilets, heating/cooling systems and access to modern health care in the space of 50 years.
Over a billion people have gone from not having plumbing to having indoor toilets, heating/cooling systems and access to modern health care in the space of 50 years.
I’ll reply to this with a quote from C. K. Lewis:
Of course slavery is the worst thing that ever happened. Every time it has happened – black people in America, Jews in Egypt, every time a whole race of people has been enslaved, it’s a horrible thing.
But maybe every incredible human achievement in history was done with slaves. Every single thing where you go, ‘How did they build those pyramids?’ They just threw human death and suffering at them until they were finished…There is no end to what you can do when you don’t give a f*ck about particular people
Hence why I compared it to he economic miracle of Nazi Germany.
Stop the lib whataboutism. The only response you can have when you hear China did something good right?
I’m not opposed to there being good stuff in China, but the economic miracle of China was built on top of slave labor and repression. It’s easy to get an economic miracle if you’re willing to sacrifice part of your population, which is why I have the Germany example since that’s exactly what was done there.
Overall China is getting better, and in a couple of generations they might be a relatively nice place to live, but don’t fool yourself into thinking that people there today are as free as people living in a democratic nation.
How is China is any way closed communication? Don’t answer.
The great firewall exists. They have to use euphemisms to get around the censors.
Yes that doesn’t equal closed. Tiktok is censored but a lot of recent US movements have spread via the app
If you can’t criticize authority I don’t find that to be an open Internet. TikTok doesn’t exist in China. Try to say Trans rights are human rights on Douyin and see what happens.
Try to say trans rights are human rights to any American official. Stop with the whataboutism, red scare, racism. Just say you’re stuck in the Cold War. Any liberal when you say anything about China positive acts like a child.
Don’t answer.
Exactly, you’re getting it.
Don’t answer.
Because the CCP will come arrest you if you do?
Because they’re just dealing brain dead slop
