Lemmy has a strong tendency to criticize the US, and a lot of the critiques of certain issue with the US are valid. However, I started getting really tired of opening comment sections in innocuous and non-political posts only to see that someone somehow found a way to criticize the US in it. At first, I started thinking that maybe some Lemmy users are really unhappy and find criticizing a something stronger helped them feel better as if standing up to injustice was a passion of theirs. But, we don’t see them do that with other targets, just the US. The more I notice and think about it, I’m starting be suspicious that some of those users and comments aren’t authentic, but made to create divisiveness in the West and reject the US entirely. In other words, they may be Russian, Chinese, et al. agents working to feed a stream of propaganda in order to further cause chaos and lack of unity in the West as we have seen them do before.
Anyone else think about this?
This is what I’m thinking the game plan is:
- Criticize something obviously unjust that the US has done. Ignore that all other major powers have also committed atrocities.
- Link and liken it to other US matters & behaviors
- Paint the US entirely as evil so that nothing the US can do is just
- Attack anyone that supports anything out of the US (we are between here and #3 above)
- Create a black-and-white model of geopolitics: US vs everyone else. EU and Russia on the same team lol
- West fragments as US and EU relationship dwindle from pseudo-populist movements (e.g. MAGA)
- Pick specific countries in the EU to start alienating and repeat the cycle
- ???
- Profit in special economic zones
Have you seen America lately?
as an american, i whole-heartedly support anti-american sentiment. we fucking deserve all of it. we voted in a clown shitshow of a government and of course the world should laugh
And this isn’t even the first clown shitshow of a government we’ve voted in this century
Removed by mod
Yeah, actually that’s a really important point, plus between the insane amounts of essentially anonymous propaganda that’s been unleashed on us through Citizens United and all the state government voter suppression laws that were allowed by Shelby County we’ve really only been a quasi-democratic society at best for most of this. Americans aren’t uniquely terrible people compared to the citizens of any other country, we’ve just got some incredibly shitty rich people who ran the table on political power.
e; forgot to rest of my thought
of course. and dont forget the whole fucking over the globe by forcing our version of democracy everywhere. or that our biggest industry is generating human killing devices we spread across the planet under the guise of ‘defense’… or that our country was founded by genociding almost an entire continent of humans.
i find it beyond funny that we support israel because ‘they were there first’, but if you mention that maybe the american indians should rise up and take their country back you get very different responses. america is the land hypocrites.
I don’t think we’re the only land of hypocrisy out there (like, listen to Russia talk about how they’re the real protectors of human rights, or China say other countries are threatening their national security, or Mexico complain about cartel violence while letting their police do whatever they want, or Israel do so much shit I don’t know where to start), but, yeah, a lot of us are brainwashed as hell, and our government is completely full of shit whenever it’s scolding anyone else about human rights, international law, the climate, etc.
i find it beyond funny that we support israel because ‘they were there first’, but if you mention that maybe the american indians should rise up and take their country back you get very different responses.
Yep, and also the fact that there’s such a vocal anti-migrant movement here after almost all of our ancestors in immigrated here is completely absurd
Nearly half the electorate didn’t vote for the reactionaries. I’d also add that this regression isn’t an exclusively American phenomenon, we’re just unfortunately at the vanguard.
it wasnte even half… 88 milllion eligible voters didnt vote at all. not voting is making a decision. people that do not vote at all are complicit
Hard disagree, Republicans wouldn’t do so much voter suppression bullshit if it didn’t have any effect. People who don’t vote are almost always being oppressed in a variety of different ways.
I waited in line for five hours to vote, and I don’t even live in a place that does voter suppression bs. I can understand why some people threw up their hands and went home. Then you’ve got the people who did vote but had their vote invalidated by bureaucratic nonsense. The deck is stacked against the people
they suppress the vote because if all eligible voters voted, they would never win another election. i stand by the fact that if you did not vote at all, you are complicit in letting democracy die at the hands of conservative extremists.
came to write something like this. feel the exact same. we don’t need to post the election results to am I the asshole because we are not the assholes.
As an outsider (not american and don’t live in the US) I just want to add that I’m not “anti-american”. The problem is that you guys built a “bully” reputation while at the same time we see the hardships the regular american have to go through without healthcare, education and labour laws, and nobody really cares.
No
I’m less worried about the anti-American tendencies than about the pro-Russian and pro-Chinese ones.
There are cases where they legitimately offer something better so they are viewed favorable. Especially China for some regional investments.
These are in my opinion good reasons and you have to ask yourself what the West can do better to change it.
We could always emulate China and start rounding up our minorities into camps and arresting any citizens who speak out. Would that be better?
Read a history book.
Because how could anyone support the country with a higher living standard than America changed in the time frame of one generation, right?
North Korea really is amazing isn’t it?
!If you don’t get it, North Korea allegedly is a wonderful place to live with very high living standards but obviously isn’t. Closed communication countries like China, North Korea, and increasingly Russia’s claims about “how good things are” must be taken with an absolute grain of salt. Unfortunately, this list could even come to include the United States soon given Trump’s desire to silence critics.!<
A grain of salt? More like a truckload.
Your wasteful sarcasm aside, what China has done for its people economically and for standard of living is unbelievable. Continue your whataboutism though
That may be true as long as you are on party line.
Bro thinks 1.1 billion people work for the government.
I mean, if by those metrics alone you mean to tell that it’s a great country, 1940’s Germany must really appeal to you. After all they did an economic miracle no one thought possible and the standard of living of their citizens increased dramatically. Who cares that they murdered millions of people, those were not REAL citizens, right?..
The PRC has big problems, that it is Guantanmo-ing or arresting and using as prison slaves at least three ethnic minorities for thought crimes is an atrocity.
But the huge increase of living standards for all Chinese citizens, including those of persecuted minorities when they’re not being locked up for ideological reasons is almost unbelievable.
Over a billion people have gone from not having plumbing to having indoor toilets, heating/cooling systems and access to modern health care in the space of 50 years.
Over a billion people have gone from not having plumbing to having indoor toilets, heating/cooling systems and access to modern health care in the space of 50 years.
I’ll reply to this with a quote from C. K. Lewis:
Of course slavery is the worst thing that ever happened. Every time it has happened – black people in America, Jews in Egypt, every time a whole race of people has been enslaved, it’s a horrible thing.
But maybe every incredible human achievement in history was done with slaves. Every single thing where you go, ‘How did they build those pyramids?’ They just threw human death and suffering at them until they were finished…There is no end to what you can do when you don’t give a f*ck about particular people
Hence why I compared it to he economic miracle of Nazi Germany.
Stop the lib whataboutism. The only response you can have when you hear China did something good right?
I’m not opposed to there being good stuff in China, but the economic miracle of China was built on top of slave labor and repression. It’s easy to get an economic miracle if you’re willing to sacrifice part of your population, which is why I have the Germany example since that’s exactly what was done there.
Overall China is getting better, and in a couple of generations they might be a relatively nice place to live, but don’t fool yourself into thinking that people there today are as free as people living in a democratic nation.
How is China is any way closed communication? Don’t answer.
Don’t answer.
Because the CCP will come arrest you if you do?
Because they’re just dealing brain dead slop
Don’t answer.
Exactly, you’re getting it.
The great firewall exists. They have to use euphemisms to get around the censors.
Yes that doesn’t equal closed. Tiktok is censored but a lot of recent US movements have spread via the app
If you can’t criticize authority I don’t find that to be an open Internet. TikTok doesn’t exist in China. Try to say Trans rights are human rights on Douyin and see what happens.
Try to say trans rights are human rights to any American official. Stop with the whataboutism, red scare, racism. Just say you’re stuck in the Cold War. Any liberal when you say anything about China positive acts like a child.
How insanely American to think America being criticized a lot must mean propaganda.
Lemmy.world may have the least of this since they neolib gobblers
I’m American. I love where I live. There’s a lot of great people, food, experiences, and places. It’s a vast place where a lot of great, forward looking things happen.
However, the government allows billionaires to control it and prevents it from serving its people. We are fucking angry.
And nothing will change through voting for nothing candidates like Kamala or Trump
America: practices actual slavery
American: I love it here.
Christ man, there’s shit to criticise about every nation, none are worth praise imho. But America isn’t even close to being “just a little bit evil” let alone good.
My other comment was removed and I don’t even remember what I said. I just wanted to say that the negative things that a country has done in its past don’t define its people.
I don’t believe that all Chinese, Russian, or North Korean people are evil. They are victims of awful governments. For you to say that it’s not ok that I enjoy the people and culture around me because there are negatives is pessimistic and ignorant.
I’ve taught elementary in Detroit. We are Americans. We work hard. We take of each other and we love our community.
I’m sorry you don’t feel as if your community cares about you. Please know that if you aren’t where people care about you, there’s somewhere that will. I hope you find peace, friend.
We both know why your other comment was removed.
I just wanted to say America didn’t only practice slavery in the past, it practices slavery right now and you “love it there”. Like what you want. I love chocolate [don’t buy it anymore though] and when someone points out there’s a huge slave trade in it I don’t go: "Honey, the adults are speaking. We are X. We work hard. We take of each other and we love our community " I say “you’re right”. The primary teachers I know don’t treat anyone with that amount of condescention, veiled or otherwise.
It isn’t more “adult” to ignore the problems of the world. It is, by definition, more ignorant though. Your previous comment called me a child. It didn’t say anything else. Just called me a child, don’t get on your high horse now, no-one is buying it.
I’ll not “proud to be an American”. I like my peers. I like where I live. I can’t right the wrongs of the world by myself. I do my part and I am at peace with the people around me. I hope you can find that one day too.
No-one is asking you to. Are you sure you’re replying to the right person? Can you show me where I suggested you should. I gave you an example in my previous comment about a thing I used to love, and still do really, being drenched in slavery. Perhaps use that? Tilt at some other windmill.
My only statement is that a nation currently practicing slavery isn’t worthy of your love. I suppose you’d put it like:
“I hope one day you find a less abusive country that might be worthy of your love”
Honey, the adults are speaking.
What’s lemmy.selfhostcat.com known for?
Based on this thread, sucking off China.
We all have hobbies.
lol, liking cute wittle putty cats I guess :)
Nice pussy.
I’m American. I’ll jump on the criticize America bandwagon any day!
So, no, we suck in the worst possible ways. That is really all there is to it
As a French guy, I can say that I suck way more than you. America has the American dream. France has the “we suck, we complain about it all the time, and we’re proud of it” vibe.
France also has the “take my rights, we take your head” attitude. I like that.
Nowadays it’s the modern version: “we don’t like that, and we’ll complain very loudly about it.”
American here. When you elect a man—twice—whose character and policies have led to a fractured nation, a failing education system, crumbling infrastructure, and a healthcare system that leaves millions behind, it’s no surprise that the world views us with disdain. When your citizens are struggling to afford basic necessities like rent and groceries while a handful of individuals hoard wealth that rivals entire nations, we’ve earned every ounce of criticism.
Buckle up, because the descent into this nightmare is far from over. The worst is yet to come, and it’s going to be a long, suffocating fall.
Don’t forget one of our largest cities is currently on fire because of our own man made climate change that we are (I believe) the number one cause of, but those same leaders are telling us to shrug and say “who knows why”
I find it a little frustrating that you think any of this started with, because of, or will end with cheeto.
This:
a fractured nation, a failing education system, crumbling infrastructure, and a healthcare system that leaves millions behind
has always been the case, and it is a feature, not a bug. Always has been.
And it will never change as long as you continue to focus on the things the system tells you to focus on (like team red vs team blue, or the clown at the front of the stage) rather than on the system itself (a state mechanism built on slavery and genocide from day dot, and designed and enforced by and for the rich and powerful, who are the ones actually pulling the strings) and abolishing that.
And before OP gets their underwear in a twist - all states are oppressive and should be abolished, but a country founded on and with the biggest hard on for capitalism on the planet, and who has the power to, and has been since its founding, loudly and aggressively dragging the rest of the world on a race to the bottom (if not directly with war mongering and political interfering, then with profiteering off of their enemies war mongering and politically interfering), deserves all the criticism it gets, and the fact that it’s easier for you to create a straw person to dismiss the perfectly valid and long overdue criticism, than it is to hear them and sit with the mild discomfort it causes you to hear the truth and confront reality, is a you problem, not a lemmy problem.
!AskUSA@discuss.online seems fine
I’m American and the main reason I don’t aim the same criticism towards other countries is that I’m American and don’t know enough about them. Maybe some people are agitating for malign purposes, but how much does that matter to a responsible netizen? No one knows who anyone is - maybe idiot takes are made by idiots or bad actors, it doesn’t change much. Lastly, one quote stuck with me after the last election season : " the reactionary is always right about what is wrong but almost always wrong about what would be right"
Whenever something occupies the entirety of the media landscape, it’s bound to have at least some legitimate detractors.
As for specific decisive propaganda, let’s say Russia and China, yes it’s there, but they’re more sophisticated than just going “America bad”. China usually sticks to generalized anti-western hegemony, and Russia usually goes the Newt Gingrich route of choosing wedge issues.
While there’s a lot of “Americans bad” sentiments going around, a lot of it is legitimate opinions while others default to it due to their tankie background. I think the actual propaganda segment is fairly low.
Stop fucking declaring war on your allies and neighbours if you don’t want people fucking pissed at you.
When the sentiment is anti-west generally, and anti-EU, then it seems sus to me, just anti-American feels pretty valid.
Am American, agree 100%. JFC we’ve destabilized countries around the world and are now getting hurt fee-fees because people are rightfully pissed off about it‽ We’ve made the world significantly less safe and now want to play the victim.
I had nothing to do with that. I’m not happy it happened. I’m pissed off that it ever happened. People in other countries aren’t pissed at ME and I understand that, but they are definitely rightfully, pissed at my country and so am I.
I honestly feel like Lemmy got considerably less vitriolic toward Americans after the election.
I used to think Lemmy was too insignificant for Russian influents, but I’m not sure anymore.
The US bullies nearly every other nation on the planet, they also bully thier supposed friends. People have little option with a bully aside from vociferous push back.
You’re right that the US is strong, they way you deal woth your despites is violence.
Lemmy is more geographically diverse then many places online, so perhaps instead of taking umbrage, lisywen ?.
Lemmy was founded to be where anti-American Americans would go after a lot of their subs were quarantined on Reddit.
That said, it has a major American focus because a lot of users are angry with the American system and don’t have a ton of experience with others directly. They’ve developed an echo chamber here and only got interrupted by the Reddit exodus.
I understand the concern and certainly believe that troll farms are slowly creeping into Lemmy as it gains traction. However, I think most of US bashing is authentic as it reflects the enormous impact of US political life on the rest of the planet. Moreover, other countries receive a constant flux of information about the US, to the point where it seems that US news is as important as domestic news. The fact that Trump remains omnipresent in the media doesn’t help either.
I get this part, and I agree with a lot of critique. What I’m noticing is that it seems that I’m seeing more hate than valid objective critique. It seems to me that a lot of the anti-US comments are merely to criticize the US out of hate than to criticize a behavior.
Imagine it were people instead of countries. This is like being at a party with friends and Marcel is not present. Marlon shares that he likes coffee without creamer. Martiza says she does too. Misty then says, “Did you know that Marcel uses raw milk instead of creamer in his coffee? What a piece of shit. It wouldn’t surprise me though. Everything he does is terrible. Remember, he cheated on Mariah in 2006. He’s probably cheating on Merced right now.” That’s completely unnecessary and irrelevant.
That’s what it feels like to me. It’s not just critique. It’s hate in discussions that are irrelevant to the US. That’s been my observation at least, but I’m bringing it up to see if maybe I’m a bit too suspicious or paranoid.
Martiza says she does too. Misty then says, “Did you know that Marcel uses raw milk instead of creamer in his coffee? What a piece of shit. It wouldn’t surprise me though. Everything he does is terrible. Remember, he cheated on Mariah in 2006. He’s probably cheating on Merced right now.”
I don’t think those are good analogies. US foreign policy has really screwed up some other countries. It’d be more like “Remember when Marcel burned Mariah’s house down? And that time Marcel got Misty fired from her job? And that time Marcel stole Merced’s car?”
The US has had some very positive effects on the international community, but people tend to remember how the world’s only remaining superpower screwed them over.
OK, thanks for the simile, it makes sense. I didn’t notice the trend but it might be so. I tend to skeem through / skip entierly comments that are clearly not on topic. Also, I like that all you characters have a name that starts with M!
Thanks, and you’re welcome!
