The study, conducted by Dr Demid Getik, explores how mental health is related to income make-up within couples by examining the link between annual income rises for women and the number of clinical mental health diagnoses over a set period of time.
The study finds that as more women take on the breadwinner role in the household, the number of mental health related incidences also increases.
As wives begin earning more than their husbands, the probability of receiving a mental health diagnosis increases by as much as 8% for all those observed in the study, but by as much as 11% for the men.
Oh for fucks sake. No wonder this study is ridiculous. It’s an economist trying to make inferences on mental health. The only actual data he had is a correlation in mental health diagnoses and women earning significantly* more. (Number not defined)
He has no evidence for causation. He does no work to get rid of confounding factors like toxic masculinity’s famous dislike of therapy. He just sees a rise in the pure number of diagnoses and says women earning more is bad for the mental health of both people in a marriage. He doesn’t even bother to check what the diagnoses are, or look for any kind of severity. For all we know the finding here could be that women who earn more and men who are willing to be with them seek counseling earlier than couples where the man makes more.
This is shit science.
Yep. The guy got a large publicly available dataset (or one his university had access to) and mined it for interesting results to get a publication.
Men who are uncomfortable with their wives earning more money are also probably more prone to feeling some stigma around addressing their own mental health issues
Was talking to a cute girl at a New Years Eve party, and it came out that while I made a nice amount for doing very little work, she made even more but had to do a lot of work. I went straight to daydreaming about being a stay-at-home Dad so hard I almost fell off my chair.
Dudes, more money means more money, why on earth would having more money upset you???
I’m willing to bet it’s selection bias. They have more time for therapy and openness to the idea. It’s one of those studies that just looks at the numbers at the top of everything. X couples got divorced, Y people sought counseling, etc.
The most they can say is there’s an increased correlation in seeking mental help.
more money is not the goal of a long term relationship or at least, ought not be. I hope this person had other attractive qualities in addition to freeing you from working.
well, I mean, she was a cute girl with a steady job, so, already got one up on the ol’ ex 🤷♂️
Why is there an increase in mental health diagnoses recently?
Looks around at the state of the world. Tyranny on the rise; human right being violated across the globe; climate crisis set to boil humanity alive; tech companies funding dictators.
My hypothesis is that it is the fault of women.
It certainly doesn’t help that men and women are more adversarial than they have ever been. The cause may be just, but at the end of the day everyone is just lonely and miserable, and afraid of the other.
Society needs to normalize households women being successful.
Are you certain that’s how this actually works? Could it be that typical gender roles developed as they did because each of the sexes took on the roles they were suited for, and switching that up isn’t as simple as some would like to think?
or, we could NOT predefine roles for people based on sex, and let individuals make decisions for themselves. Maybe not everyone is the same, imagine that!
🚨multiple counts of transphobia detected in modlog, opinion invalid🚨
Thanks for shortcutting my block decision. 👍🏻
I think one issue with this viewpoint is you are assuming that work is intrinsically competitive, but that’s a result of male-dominated workplaces, not only a cause, though it may be self-reinforcing to an extent. There’s no reason workplaces can’t be more focused on consensus and cohesion. I’ve worked in several female-dominated organizations and they tend to be this way and they work just fine.
you are assuming that work is intrinsically competitive
That assumption is based upon the idea that working with a broad range of strangers means you can’t trust people specifically, so you have to work towards your goals. From that you will end up cooperating naturally with anyone who shares your goals, but you will also have to compete fiercely with those who have goals antagonistic to your own.
Society couldn’t even get which gender wears pants/skirts right, I wouldn’t trust it on this.
As a Celt, your assertion confuses me.
Yes. I’m certain you’re a fucking idiot.
Good lord…
ROFL
Knowing Lemmy, this comment is probably highly downvoted, but this is the likely explanation for it in my opinion as well.
Neckbeard incel lol
Are you fucking stupid, or did you just wake up from a 100 year nap?
Rumpelstiltskin over here with opinions
I dunno, maybe on average.
When I was unemployed for a bit between contracts, my wife made all the income and I paid for what I could with my emergency fund. (Everything worked out fine)
I did basically all the chores, cooking, cleaning, shopping, etc. in addition to looking for work and working on “side-hustles”.
She wishes that she made enough money so that we could hit that dual-income level alone and I could become a house husband for her, lmao
And hey, if she could make enough money on her own, I’d love that! Lol
Wtf.
Wtf is that this nonsense about the sexes being interchangeable has gone uncontested in popular culture for so long. Even when it’s suggested that behaving that way is leading to a rise in mental health issues people are completely unwilling to even discuss the possibility there is something else going on here.
LOL you’re one of the dudes who would be butthurt by the woman making more money
Bring your receipts.
Show your sources that for all human history things have been one specific way. Don’t forget to adjust for the fact that your education, media, socialization are all geared towards the current economic system and therefore are slanted to reinforce norms that feed that system.
Ah yes, of course the housewife and the kitchen are an example of co-evolution.
Why is the idea that all of human history before now being completely wrong such an unquestionable truth today?
Because it’s not “all of human history” it’s at best “eurocentric,” a western belief system. There were and are many cultures that value women as leaders and not just relegated to the kitchen. It’s just “us westerners” that have this fucked up view of a womans “place.”
Well, I think this is a bit of an exaggeration. Patriarchy is a pretty dominant social structure across many different cultures, not just European. There are exceptions, yes, but it seems far more common than it should be if that was purely coincidental. Based on my reading, patriarchy is strongly associated with the rise of agriculture and with patrilocal marriage and may not have existed prior to those institutions, but early human history has a very scant level of evidence remaining, unfortunately.
However, the relatively low sexual dimorphism in humans does suggest that early human societies were fairly egalitarian with respect to the sexes.
Man, blaming “patriarchy” bugs the hell out of me, because I’m from northern European backgrounds, and we’ve been perfectly fine with female leaders basically forever. Our societies are an equal partnership between men and women, each doing what they’re best suited for, but neither dominating the relationship. I know there are fucked up cultures out there which are run by men domination women, but can we please stop trying to erase the fact that it IS actually possible to get along?
Isn’t there the theory that agriculture basically pushed patriarchy because of several factors?
Just a quick glance into this article: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230525-how-did-patriarchy-actually-begin
gives some insights which do not sound too wrong. For example the article mentions the theory that the rise in property included the need for defense against others and you are better at this with more people. The article also theorizes that “social elites emerged as some people built up more property than others, driving men to want to make sure their wealth would pass onto their legitimate children”.
Very interesting article. I might need to check out the author’s book, it sounds right up my alley.
Another interesting fact is that as we’ve seen these agrarian and patrilocal traditions weaken under capitalism, we suddenly see a strong push for gender equality after thousands of years of consistent oppression. This also fits the pattern, although the number of dramatic changes to society in recent centuries make it difficult to pinpoint exact causes.
Seriously though, I’d be absolutely fucking fine if I was a househusband.
I wanna be a house husband so bad yo I’d be so good at it I can cook and clean good enough to please anyone’s grandma and I can manage a household like a pro
Lemme stop working lemme decorate a fucking great room and meal prep for my loved ones FUCK
You can move in with me if you want lol. I hate cleaning and shit. But I’m a man and I don’t make 250k that’s for sure.
I’m already dating a man who swears he’s gonna get me a hot tub to be sexy in, but I still gotta work. What’s your offer?
No employment required but you gotta do the cleaning for me and my wife. Free room and board, and other reasonable expenses covered but we do live frugally, and you’d be expected to as well. You can fuck or decline to fuck whoever you want. No hottub though. We live in the city center and don’t have space for such things.
Trad husband. Based
“How about I earn another $250k and we DINK our way across the globe?”
Go on…
It’s not just the men suffering from this.
My only problem with this personally is what if something terrible happens and the wife is no longer in the picture. Then, my house husband skills wouldn’t help me land a decent paying job.
Welcome to the reality of every stay at home mom ever
Any chance this correlates with finally being able to afford mental health care?
This guy understands how the world works.
That was a great point. I was assuming it adds stress which exacerbated symptoms of mental health conditions that incentivized the couples to get diagnosed.
The study focused on heterosexual Swedish couples of working age who married in 2001 and whose individual incomes measured at just above or just below the equal earnings threshold.
I wouldn’t have thought mental health care was inaccessible due to cost in a country like Sweden.
It’s not free, but it’s not expensive either, max of around $250 a year for all healthcare. But mental health care in Sweden is abysmal, if you’re lucky they’ll give you 12 sessions with a psychologist who is apathetic to your issues and then let you go, because they seem to see it as something that once your sessions are done, should be fixed.
This in a country rife with social isolation, months of dark and cold, hobbies that are too expensive to do and a generally unhealthy society.
It’s not just monetary, it’s also time, and being willing to admit you have a problem and seek help. Some jobs will fire you if you admit to having substance abuse or mental health problems, like airline pilots. (Or even if they don’t outright fire you, it’ll still end your career.)
Fair. I also would have thought, though, that Sweden would have had stronger labor protection laws to protect people who are getting help from retaliatory firing.
It does, and employers are usually very good as supporting their employees with health issues.
With pilots, it’s not Sweden and firing, but EASA and medicals.
After the Germanwings crash, the only reasonable choice was obviously making it so that most mental health issues disqualify you from flying. It does wonders for reporting.
Admitting you need help can end your career, not just lose your current job.
Oh interesting. That’s unfortunate.
It’s not always free in scandinavialand. If you have a referral from a doctor due to a mental illness or the like, it’s probably covered. But if you seek therapy out if own initiative you probably have to pay out of pocket.
Source: As a scandinavian I looked into it once, but upon noticing the hourly rate I figured that it would probably cause more mental distress than it would solve.
Ah, thanks.
Remember, this is diagnoses. My guess is that its a “owning a horse make you healthier” thing again.
This is really sad, tbh.
I personally would be freaking stoked. Would love to be a stay at home hubs, too.
Dude, me too, and I would kill at it.
Sadly, based on skills and the job market where we’re at, I can make more working.
Same. My skillset and interests align with being a house spouse, not making money. Single tho, and trying to make a beautiful home while working full time leads to many compromises
That’s what we found out.
My wife enjoys her work, finds it rewarding, etc. etc. and has never been really content as a homemaker. My job is alright, but I don’t feel any real passion for it, and I don’t need a work atmosphere or to be around a lot of people to stay engaged. I’m happy just keeping things organized and running smoothly in my own little corner of the world.
I make just a little less than we need for her to stay home, and she makes peanuts in comparison.
It really hacks me off. She works in education, what she does is far more important to the well-being of society than what I do. If our paychecks were reversed, and they honestly should be reversed, I’d be happy to stay home or work part time but it’s just not financially feasible.
It’s genuinely upsetting. The option to be a house wife/husband is becoming rarer. Everyone needs to work to provide enough for the household. House hubbies are lucky men.
oh yeah but I would not want that much pressure on my wife. Would want to make enough to at least get us by in a pinch.
For men, mental health issues that arose as female earnings increased were more likely to be related to substance-related concerns, whereas women were more likely to experience neurotic and stress-related disorders.
I’m not convinced of a causative relationship here (well, at least for the men, it makes sense that working more increases stress on the women’s side). It’s possible that the woman became the higher earner because of the man’s existing substance abuse problem, and/or that the woman becoming a higher earner allowed the man to seek help for the problem.
It’s also possible that the substance abuse problem developed after the woman became the higher earner, though I’m not sure why that would happen.
It’s also possible that the men were self medicating instead of seeking help for underlying conditions.
They can afford it now?
Yeah correlation is not causation.
These couples might both work more than the control cohort. Any number of explanations.
It’s possible that the woman became the higher earner because of the man’s existing substance abuse problem, and/or that the woman becoming a higher earner allowed the man to seek help for the problem.
It’s also possible that the substance abuse problem developed after the woman became the higher earner, though I’m not sure why that would happen.
I think those are two fair bits of speculation that warrant further study and/or reporting.
This has to depend on the guy. My ex, he always made less $ than me because I went to college after having kids and got a better job, then asked him if he wanted to do the same he said no, and we made enough as long as we both worked, it wasn’t anything we really thought about, only about hours worked by each of us. Now when he was unemployed it all went to hell, but not as long as he worked at all. I valued his work, not the wage.
My husband, he wants to make more than me but sees it as a challenge, he wants me to make more money, because it would motivate him to make more money, he just wants us to have more money. He is very happy for me to succeed, and I’m valued for contributions at home and making money, and (critically important) he does as much as me around the house, and our busy work seasons aren’t at the same time so we are able to support each other during those months. I do think it’s a sexist thing (he does too but still feels it) but don’t actually care, it works fine for us in practice.
I’ve experienced a man in my life being really fucking salty and super dickish about my successful career. It isn’t a husband or SO, but my stepfather. The man who, until recently, has been a great father figure.
I can’t talk about work around him without his mood immediately souring. Idk if he’s jealous that I have some disposable income and that I am making a little less than he is and I’m only 3 years into my career as opposed to his 25, but it’s really discouraging.
Finances are very tight for him and my mother and it’s almost entirely his fault because he is terrible with money. It’s really sad to see him act this way. According to my mom, he has bitched to my grandma (his mom) about me taking up horseback riding and doing things with my new friends because it can be expensive. My grandma yelled at him over it and said that me doing new things and socializing is very good and she supports it. Idk why he thinks my finances are his business either. Ugh. The man is so frustrating.
Sorry for ranting. Guess I really needed to get all that out lol.
Well I hope there was some catharsis to your comment! That sucks you’re being subjected to it. Good for grandma having your back!
Been divorced since forever, and with age comes wisdom. I think it would be fantastic if I had a high earning wife. Really…
[Translation: Correlation does not equal causation.]
Yes, the link is this:
When all the adults in the household have to work 40+ hours a week, plus commute, plus all the adulting…they get sad since this is fucking toxic.
Also no one has time for civics.
Also no one has time to parent, so the kids are sad too.
If we’re looking at mental health problems, lets look here first.
You missed manly man not manly enough and now sad too.
You’re right, patriarchal demands are toxic on men too and that’s where the stress comes from.
Could have said that instead of being dismissive about it though.
Men that are upset that their wives out-earn them are missing the point of marriage. The point of marriage isn’t him vs her, its the two of you together against the world. If she is earning more than him, then that benefits him too because he’s part of the marriage.
I’m constantly astonished when I hear of men that are upset by their wives out-earning them. Some of these men have even sabotaged their wife’s work or changed the circumstances at home preventing her from continuing in the job where she out-earns him. My only hope for these women is they realize their husband’s love is conditional on him being dominant over her, and that she seeks out a better future where she can be her best self.
Why are you against the world?
The world is against the individual, or in this case the married couple.
Nah, its really only 1% that’s against you.
Solidarity. We are many, they are few.
The world is more than just the 1%.
A wind storm damaging the roof of the house has nothing to do with the 1%. Yet it will still negatively affect the married couple if they don’t have the resources to fix the roof.
Yup I remember hearing this for the first time talking to a co-worker. He would never date anyone making more than him in $. I was so confused cause I’m happy my wife makes more $ than me. Which is the reason I went back to school cause I wanted to help with contribute more. I see my wife as an equal and nothing less. We do the same amount of work around the house and cook and all that. Why marry if you do not see your partner as an equal being.
My other coworkers were confused as well. Guy had weird values when it came to women.
