• Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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    13 days ago

    Could it be that vigilante justice doesn’t solve a systemic issue and you can’t shoot your way to socialized medicine?

    • PyroNeurosis@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      13 days ago

      One extrajudicial killing and you wanna call it off? By that reasoning, elections don’t solve social issues either.

      But I get it: murder bad.

        • jaybone@lemmy.world
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          12 days ago

          Probably the logic is, it needs to be a problem people are willing to fix. The only people who can fix the problem are high level execs and lawmakers/politicians. So until it’s a regular problem for them, it’s not going to get fixed.

          • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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            12 days ago

            Or they just give all of those CEOs and lawmakers security forces to guard them. And those security forces will likely not be especially discriminating when they see what they think is a threat.

            That seems a lot more likely to me.

            • Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works
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              12 days ago

              If your position is “the world is an ugly place”, but simultaneously “violence cannot be a solution” then I can only assume that what you are proposing here is nihilism?

              It would take supreme optimism - the exact opposite of your “the world is an ugly place” - to imagine that every large scale societal change imaginable can be achieved without ever resorting to the threat of violence. That flies in the face of the entirety of human history.

              So if you are not proposing some idealistic scenario where violence is simply not necessary, and yet you stand against the idea that violence can ever be effective, then all that’s left is a scenario where change is impossible. The world is fucked and always will be.

              And yet, contrary to what appears to be your stated position, this too becomes a justification for violence. If nothing will ever change for the better then why not cause as much harm as possible to the people hurting us? Force to them to forever live in fear that one day someone will find a crack in their defences? They have to be lucky every time, their enemies only have to be lucky once.

              A realist would acknowledge that the lessons of history are that violence or the threat of violence is often a necessary component of change. You claim to be against that position.

              An idealist would say that violence should never be our answer, that it solves nothing and never will. You claim not to be an idealist.

              So what do you believe?

              • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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                12 days ago

                I’m not proposing anything. America is going to be a fascist dictatorship. Future elections will be the type they have in Russia. The chance for any sort of socialized medicine is over.

                You don’t see anyone overthrowing Putin, do you?

                • SkyeStarfall@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                  12 days ago

                  But if you were to overthrow Putin, how would you do it?

                  If you have a fascist dictatorship, how do you end it? How was fascism ended in history?

        • Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works
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          12 days ago

          The process is the same one that has underpinned basically every large scale societal change; you offer a peaceful path to a better world, with the understanding that if the peaceful path is rejected, violence will be what remains.

          It took MLK and Malcolm X to get civil rights moved forward. The one without the other is futile.

          • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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            12 days ago

            MLK and Malcolm X didn’t live in a fascist dictatorship. Everything is futile now. The time for progressive change in America is over for the foreseeable future. People need to get that into their heads.