As a consequence, have a person’s kids taken away? Or should there be any consequences?
****PLEASE READ
I’m straightforward and don’t want to give any ‘fluff’ So I don’t know how else to ask this question without it sounding rage baity.
This isn’t a gotcha or trap to argue with anyone I feel and believe I can learn something of value from people I disagree with. It is interesting to know why you disagree and what reasons make you feel x y and z about things.
I’m here to listen, not judge or throw around name calling or fight with you. You feel the way you do for whatever reason, and I want to know a little more about why you do and that is it.
I would like for everyone to feel confident voicing how they feel about this question. I don’t care if I disagree with you. Fighting with you is not how I’d like to spend my evening. I’m sure you don’t either.
I might ask follow ups like, “Why is it that you feel that way?” Or “can you tell me a little bit more” so I can understand your point of view better. And that’s it.
If that feels too much or you don’t want to. Totally fine. Just ignore my comment to you.
Thanks for your time.
“If a doctor determines a patient needs a specific treatment and then the parents deny it or the law withholds it, is it a form of abuse?”
Yes.
Appreciate your response thank you
!00% disagree that a single doctor’s recommendation should ever be required to be followed, because sometimes doctors are wrong. That is why there are second opinions and ultimately it is the patient’s choice even if two doctors agree. People with extremely rare conditions being forced to have a specific treatment that they know isn’t working would be abuse.
I 100% agree with this, but it wasn’t the question.
The question was whether parents can override the choice of patient when the patient’s choice is supported by a doctor’s recommendation. And more specifically, whether parents can deny a reversible puberty delaying hormone treatment against the patient’s wishes and force the patient to undergo puberty against their will.
Yes, but I didn’t want to get into all that because what type of insufferable pedant would demand so much detail in a casual forum? We can assume this. We’re not writing a thesis on medical care ffs.
Good thing no one is talking about being forced.
Redditeur detected. Blocking engaged.
If not following through on the treatment is abuse, then of course that would make the treatment forced.
I agree with that notion, but is transitioning something a doctor would say a child needs? How young are we even talking here? A teen that is just a few years or so under 18 or a toddler? Almost every time I hear about children transitioning, it’s a strawman argument proposed by transphobes which are immediately dismissed with “that’s not happening, tho.”
But they’ll continue to whatabout you and JAQ you off regardless, so I maintain that even if there were circumstances calling for transition, it would be none of my damn business anyway.
In Canada, you can start transitioning as a teenager, but that’s almost 100% hormonal treatments which aren’t permanent.
There’s therapy involved. There’s physicians involved.
More people regret knee replacement than gender affirming surgery.
In Canada, kids aren’t going through irreversible surgery. It just doesn’t happen. It’s a years long process, so toddlers would never even be considered because it takes years. The toddler wouldn’t be a toddler by the time surgery was scheduled.
If you read, the standards of care for trans people, you’ll see that the medical establishment doesn’t agree with irreversible surgery before adulthood. I’m not saying that it doesn’t happen in other countries, but it goes against the international standard.
If you want some references I can help, but I encourage you to look for some of the primary sources.
There’s a ridiculous amount of misinformation out there regarding this topic. It can be really hard to see through that.
Could it also just be that many who aren’t really informed and just kinda looking at it from the outside consider hormonal treatments “transitioning?” Up until your comment, I’ve thought that was still a part of it since my sister is trans but all she has done to this point is HRT and psychological therapy and those drugs changed her physical appearance significantly. Is it only considering transitioning when you have surgery?
The whole “transition = surgery” thing is not only bs imo, but also what historically tends to be how usa beaurocratically gatekeeps people, especially in conservative states. They won’t greenlight a change of name/gender on birth certificates without it, for example. Transition starts in different ways, and it all depends on the person. It’s social, mental, and physical, and not always in that order, and not always all of the above. I knew I didn’t want the puberty I got, and didn’t bother really addressing it until my 20s. It’s different for everyone. (Non-binary person here, for context)
Maybe we shouldn’t use the term if it’s so ambiguous, and instead refer to unambiguous things such as surgery, hormone treatment, dressing differently, voice training, etc
Which hormones specifically are you asserting don’t have long-term effects in their variation during teenage years? That seems to conflict with my understanding of the role of hormones in development.