It is clear that the signal to noise ratio of the WWW is getting worse. It’s much harder to find good content when using a good old search engine. And if it’s good it is usually hosted on Reddit or Stackexchange.
So remember, even if it’s easy too Google something (well, it isn’t nowadays), we want to create a fediverse of good content that helps people (I hope). So, it’s always better to write a real answer if you have the time and energy. Please help boost the SNR and reverse the AI fueled information degradation loop.
Check on Ecosia!
I’ve never had issues with looking anything up. By downranking Reddit and using a search engine with a good indexer that downranks bullshit and generated websites, which mine is really good at, I haven’t noticed much change from how it was before.
But I agree with the second part. That’s something that never occured to me, and it makes sense. I was usually trying to answer questions I knew, and never had the urge to reply “just google it”, so it doesn’t change much for me, but it’s a really good point I never realized.
I’ve made posts and videos about fixing cars or other items where there were no answers available anywhere, where I also go into detail about root causes so that the problem doesn’t repeat itself.
My absolute favorite videos for car repairs were some shade tree mechanics who just recorded what they were doing and talking through the steps. No fancy lighting setups, no separate camera person. Just explaining and sharing knowledge for something that I couldn’t figure out by reading words because the written word was just ‘lightly hammer’ and they showed the angles and explained where the parts were frequently getting caught.
You are a hero.
Repair steps are one of the few tasks that I feel videos are better than words (and sometimes pictures). It definitely helps to see the motions they’re taking and a single capture of the location from walking up to the car (or other repairable object) all the way to looking at the part that needs fixing.
In the before times we had libraries of books that’d teach a person anything they wanted to learn. If a person had a question and the book didn’t answer there was someone there who didn’t know the answer but damn well knew how to find it. We never had to sort through piles of garbage content produced to waste our time for profit.
Even the early Internet was this way. Its slow degradation became a nose dive with broad adoption of Facebook and AI. I had to starting writing a line of code to search. And, that doesn’t even work anymore.
I used to be pretty good at googling stuff, but the last 1 or 2 years it just won’t work anymore. For instance, I had to charge a battery yesterday, and the power led started blinking when I put the battery in. I didn’t know if this meant either charging or faulty battery, so I googled it. Got pages of ads for this particular charger, but no answer. So google is just a big marketplace these days, and nothing more.
Just so you know, a dremel battery is charging when the power led blinks.
Did it not have a manual?
Just yesterday I was looking for similar info on a thermostat. Given only the brand name and knowledge that it was a thermostat, I found the product line, tech specs, and manuals. (I didn’t find the answer I needed, but that’s because it was “the button can be programmed to do different things by the control system”).
It does, but google decided I needed to buy a new one, not download the manual.
Usually both of those options are on the same page. If you have one, you have both, or at least a lead on their support site.
Remember that most people don’t even know there is something called “rankings” or “indexer” in this context.
What’s your search engine of choice?
SearxNG To quote old Ben, “This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or random as a blaster; an elegant weapon for a more civilized age.”
I’m using Kagi, but as of right now I’m not sure if I can recommend it. The last year with it was amazing, but for the past few days I’ve been getting blocked searches from my VPN out of nowhere. That would be a dealbreaker for me, but I hope it was just a mistake and they will fix it. It’s the first time it has happened in the year or so I’ve been using it.
Apparently, they are also adding a bunch of AI features, but I only noticed it when I was looking up the feature page, and I haven’t noticed any of it in my feed before that - so I guess they don’t push it on users and it’s optional somewhere out of the way, so don’t let that discourage you. (Though, it would’ve discouraged me, if I saw that before I started using it. But as of now it doesn’t affect you unless you look for it, I guess)
Other than that, the search is awesome. But since I’m using it exclusively for like a year, I can’t really compare it with other engines, it’s possible that I’m just used to it.
I haven’t noticed any of it in my feed before that - so I guess they don’t push it on users and it’s optional somewhere out of the way
That’s a bold assumption.
Do you mind elaborating on your search setup? I’d like to be able to avoid a ton of bullshit especially while working.
I just use Kagi, which seems to be pretty good at filtering bullshit by default, and have mabually downranked reddit and twitter, ot any other site I found and don’t like. But it’s been a long time since I used other search, so I can’t compare it much since I’m used to it. Never really had any problems with not finding what I need.
The issue with that is trolls who either 1. ask for source when something is an easy to find fact of life (i.e. it doesn’t need a scientific paper / article or whatever to prove). To later try to convince / discredit you that your link does not show what you claim (when it does). This one is to waste the other person’s time and nothing else, and is really popular by kremlin bots 2. launch an outlandish claim with no source, you counter it and then you are asked by OP to provide your source, then back to 1. for the rest of the bullshit that they do.
Ultimately it doesn’t matter much when you reply to 2 - 3 people like that, but posting more often, it does simply waste your time.
This is still better than the opposite tactic of sending your opponent to google it and when they don’t find anything saying that it’s because they are not trying hard enough.
Source: google it
I dont think I’ve hardly ever seen someone asking for sources on obvious truths or pretend a source is lying. They just say Nuh uh or Cuss out
I have, however, seen a LOT of people claim shit that isn’t true at all and try to pass it off as basic fact, and
I’ve seen even more people post sources that don’t actually say what they’re trying to prove.
And i dont think this is really the point of the Google it conversation
Search for it on the Internet
I never say it like that. But I’ll tell people I found it by searching it. People really need to learn how to search first.
Noooooo don’t “Just Google it” try, “Use a Search Engine”<br> Dont’t make Google an integral part of internet
Jokes on you, I google it using ddg!
I wish I had the power to make google a not integral part of the internet just by calling it duckduckgoing.
On that note: If you talk about what you searched for last week, would that be “I duckduckgoed” or “I duckduckwent”?
on one hand I agree. on the other, google has historically been afraid of the verb to google becoming generic, so of course I’d like to see that happen.
I think the middle ground is say google it, but make it clear you mean google it on an alternative search engine
Yep, just like Kleenex, or Xerox, (a faded term for mimeograph/photocopy), Google has become a generic verb/term for search in virtually every language now. To google something is synonymous with search. It no longer implies a specific search engine. (I use Ghostery private search myself). Google has lost the war on their name and “It’s a Good Thingtm”
But there does seem to be a greater amount of “search entitlement” these days for even the easiest of problems. People as a very general rule don’t seem to want to be bothered by the need to learn things on their own. They expect others to provide them all the answers in an effortless format.
I’ve even provided detailed answers to people on some ‘life threat level’ activities that were rejected because I didn’t simply reaffirm their ignorant and misguided thoughts in looking for shortcut answers.
Just stick it in ChatGPT
Just Ask Jeeves.
I’m surprised there hasn’t been a revival of an AI Jeeves.
Um, where’s Jeeves? Wtf.
Oh god, I thought a wooden stake had been driven through Jeeve’s heart…
That just turns him on, that kinky bastard!
Recursively google searching is an interesting case of the halting problem.
I’m starting to give up on Google. I’ve literally copy and pasted the same error message in Google, DuckDuckGo, and Kagl.
Google will respond with “no results found” while the others will actually give me a response.
How do the results from ddg match the query? It doesn’t look particularly helpful to me, and if not, why would I prefer to wade through a number of results that are ultimately unhelpful?
If there are no matches, I want to be told.
The issue I was having was getting a hyper-v host to connect to an iscsi array on a nimble. That first result was pretty much exactly what I needed. It didn’t highlight it in the preview, but it was on the page once I opened it.
Ah, so that’s definitely good. It wasn’t clear from the screenshots, at least not for me
Even if the results aren’t exactly what I’m looking for, getting something even tangentially related can be helpful in finding the ultimate solution.
Well, are these results?
Test kagi too
Google knows me too well.
My kids now get Infoblox commercials in the middle of their Minecraft YouTube videos.
okay so it’s not just me then! I’ve been seeing that zero matches page more and more. It used to be the other way around, if I couldnt find something on DDG or startpage it would be on google. how did they fuck up their indexing so badly
I think zero matches means “we weren’t able to find any suitable ads so we don’t give a fuck about you”
Still … they should at least get more creative and give you links like “Error 404 Root Beer” … or “Error 404 hot women in your area”
Yeah, I ditched Google as my default search engine a while ago. It’s next to useless and they’re a horrible company.
A “real answer” is rarely as credible as an article with quotes including time and place, as well as citing statistics and peer reviewed studies. In fact, I’d wager the amount of misinformation on Lemmy is a very high ratio. People are even writing entire fanfictions about current events to fit their narrative.
A “real answer” is rarely as credible as an article with quotes including time and place, as well as citing statistics and peer reviewed studies.
Depends what kind of learning is needed. Fixing a car, I have found rando-on-the-Internet to be a far more effective resource, than peer reviewed sanitized but irrelevant information.
Different tools for different needs, and all that.
People are even writing entire fanfictions about current events to fit their narrative.
Impossible!
(This is sarcasm, meant to purposefully demonstrate your point.)
“just Google it” has always been a shitty reply. People are asking for your opinion because they want opinions from people, not some nameless site/author/whatever. Even if you’re just regurgitating information, it’s coming from a PERSON not a random article. Never mind the reliability of the source. Heavens forbid that we social creatures social about a thing for a bit.
“I’m not responsible for educating you”
cool, then stfu and let somebody else or nut up and do the work if you want it done right
My favorite is when someone responds with this but any cursory search to “educate yourself” delivers information that overwhelmingly opposes what they were saying.
“Educate yourself (using only fringe websites that I agree with).”
Oh, you mean lemmy! Lol are those losers who post links to the communist wiki as a rebuttal to everything still at it? I blocked them years ago.
Fuckin right lol? Why else do we exist, socially, if not to share cool shit with each other? Be it knowledge, a cool cat pic, a song you wrote, or eventually genetic material, arguably the “point” of sexual reproduction, maybe even life. I think now more than ever we should be hesitant to telling anyone to outsource any of that part of humanity to our AI overlords.
But this was one of the original shit replies that demonstrates the energy the person expends replying is greater than that of not replying at all. What will they do with all that self righteous energy now?
Unfortunately, these days it’s quite possible it’s coming from an LLM. I agree with your sentiment, you just have to always keep in mind what other possible incentives an actor on the internet may have for sharing a fact or opinion, whether it’s simply monetary (corporate wants you to buy this product), political (this state wants to you to believe this thing), or personal (this person has a grudge against this thing and is willing to use bots to amplify their discontent).
It’s as likely your top 30 or so pages are AI generated, paid results, SEO optimized shit, etc that’s just as unsavory. No one says you can’t verify information, and probably should anyway, be it one search result verifying another, a bunch of commenters verifying each other, or verifying the two against each other.
That’s exactly what an LLM would say! /s
I have conversations with my spouse sometimes where I am asking for information, and she reads me the article.
I can read it myself! What did you find interesting?
Fine I’ll just tell people to Duckduckgo it! /s
Jokes aside I agree with this message. Better to give at least a basic idea on where to find something, or just don’t be a pedantic cock and give me the damn link, your word is not good enough okay buddy, pal, friend.
I’ll just tell people to Duckduckgo it!
Duck it.
What I’d like to become the standard is:
If the question makes it super obvious the asker has zero clue what they’re asking or trying to do, lightly correct and steer them to beginner friendly resources.
If the question is competent but focusing the wrong direction or will lead to a bad habit, essentially, they know just enough to be dangerous but they’re about to be dangerous, more pointed and technical correction and steering them to either articles or better search terms to use.
If it’s a pointed question with the information to show they’ve done the normal information gathering and either need opinions that are beyond the theory or book standard information or they don’t answer the question, answer the question. Ideally also giving sources to back up your answers.
Bonus points if you can do the above without coming across as a dick. Unless they ask to ask. You can be a dick to those people.
Just googlw it is unfortunate shorthand for “learn it by doing research and troubleshooting”, a skill sadly very scarce. I agree it’s toxic and unhelpful. Guiding people to be better at finding information on their own is the way.
Asking someone else a question is also doing research.
Can’t argue with that.
