George Carlin Estate Files Lawsuit Against Group Behind AI-Generated Stand-Up Special: ‘A Casual Theft of a Great American Artist’s Work’::George Carlin’s estate has filed a lawsuit against the creators behind an AI-generated comedy special featuring a recreation of the comedian’s voice.
I think AI will win this fight. We’re equiped with buckets to fight a tsunami.
AI of today is the worst it will ever be and it’s already pretty fucking good. I expect that in the next 5 to 20 years most if not all the best content will be AI generated and I’m excited for it. I feel for the artists that will suffer because of it but I can’t see how we’re going to stop it or why we even should.
Good. I sincerely hope they win.
I’ve watched it on YouTube, it’s pretty good. It starts “this is an impersonation of George Carlin”. Wonder if a court ruling would prevent human impersonation.
Internet: this is awful, of course your inheritors own your own image as stewarts.
Also Internet: I have a right to take pictures of you, your car, your house, or record you without consent. Edit it however I want. Make as much money as I want from the activities and you have no rights. Since if technology allows me to do something you have no expectation that I won’t.
We are demanding that a public figure who is dead have more rights than a private person who is alive.
Im probably out of the loop, or just way too tired to work out what you mean.
Who is the “also internet” part roughly referring to? It reminded me of the sssniperwolf incident, and if i recall, the internet was not happy with that, so it doesn’t make sense to me.
Im also not comfortable with the generalised use of “the internet” because by its very nature saying “the internet” is almost akin to saying “humans”
Every individual member of “the internet” is different and has different views, so pointing out a discrepancy and framing it like it shouldn’t be there is a bit redundant.
Its like saying
Humans: like affordable housing
Also humans: raise interest rates to unaffordable levels.
There are two different groups here that are both humans. So its not particularly useful to group them together with the collective word when trying to point out a disparity.
Ripped it from YouTube last night to add to my media server; curiously it’s no longer available on youtube this morning… (at least the original Dudesy upload I’d grabbed, there’s re-uploads)
Ah… How can I get that file, I haven’t seen it.
It’s called ‘George Carlin: I’m glad that I’m dead’. Have a look around, the original upload was removed, but there are others.
I refuse to watch it - I love the original guys stuff so it wouldn’t feel right.
However, is it any good?
It doesn’t compare with any of George Carlin’s performances, but as it is I liked it, it’s quite ammusing. It’s hard to imagine an ai came up with all the text and topics by itself, I’m convinced there’s at least human editing there.
Just finished it:
It’s an interesting piece. I’m not sure I’d pay to watch it or any other AI comedy specials (didn’t even watch it via YouTube to avoid ad revenue), but given free access I wanted to at least see what’s up.
It both starts and ends with very clear disclaimers that this is not George Carlin but an AI impersonation of him. The voice is pretty close, but not quite right, though it matches his cadence quite well. Even without the disclaimers, it’s pretty obvious to me it’s not actually George Carlin.
The majority of the video is clearly AI generated art to match the current topic, mostly stills with a handful of short sections of AI people mouthing the words. I’m fairly sure the script and art were curated by a human, along with the overall editing of the special.
Quite a bit of highly political comedy in a very similar style to Carlin, but definitely doesn’t hold a candle to his original/genuine work. It also discusses what he/it is, some of the controversy around it’s existence, and the possible future of AI use throughout all professions, but mainly standup comedy roles and similar (like talk show hosts and news anchors for example)
Worth a watch, if you can keep an open mind and recognize there’s a difference between the original and an artistic representation of him. I don’t think the tools used changes that, especially with it clearly stated as being an impersonation.
If its wrong to use AI to put genitals in someone’s mouth it should probably be wrong to use AI to put words in their mouth as well.
I agree and I get it’s a funny way to put it, but in this case they started the video with a massive disclaimer that they were not Carlin and that it was AI. So it’s hard to argue they were putting things in his mouth. If anything it’s praiseworthy of a standard when it comes to disclosing if AI was involved, considering the hate mob revealing that attracts.
The internet doesn’t care though. If I make fake pictures of people using their likeness and add a disclaimer, people will just repost it without the disclaimer and it will still do damage. Now whether or not we can or should stop them is another story
Completely true. But we cannot reasonably push the responsibility of the entire internet onto someone when they did their due diligence.
Like, some people post CoD footage to youtube because it looks cool, and someone else either mistakes or malicious takes that and recontextualizes it to being combat footage from active warzones to shock people. Then people start reposting that footage with a fake explanation text on top of it, furthering the misinformation cycle. Do we now blame the people sharing their CoD footage for what other people did with it? Misinformation and propaganda are something society must work together on to combat.
If it really matters, people would be out there warning people that the pictures being posted are fake. In fact, even before AI that’s what happened after tragedy happens. People would post images claiming to be of what happened, only to later be confirmed as being from some other tragedy. Or how some video games have fake leaks because someone rebranded fanmade content as a leak.
Eventually it becomes common knowledge or easy to prove as being fake. Take this picture for instance:
It’s been well documented that the bottom image is fake, and as such anyone can now find out what was covered up. It’s up to society to speak up when the damage is too great.
Damn.
snaps
I’ll take Lawyers Maximizing Billable Hours for $500, Alex
I’d have sympathy if this was about a grieving family wanting to be left alone, but it looks more like the “estate” wanting money. At least they aren’t going after total nobodies. (Will Sasso and Chad Kultgen)
I don’t think individuals should own their tone of voice or style. I’ve seen the copyright abuse on YouTube and it would end up with videos being taken down the moment you utter a word with a tone of voice that sounds mildly like a celebrity.
I do believe they should own their name though. Getting sued because you try to pass yourself off as someone else is completely justifiable. This video is coasting off his name, it isn’t exactly right.
It’s not trying to pass itself off as Carlin though. It clearly says at the beginning that it is NOT him, that it’s an AI’s impression of him.
This would open up any comedian who does an impression of anyone else to a lawsuit. The only difference is that this is AI doing it instead of a person.
I would agree with you if they hadn’t named their video “George Carlin - I’m glad I’m dead”. This is the equivalent of a Taylor Swift band putting out original work and naming their upload “Taylor Swift - my new song”.
I shouldn’t have to wonder if the video I’m clicking is by the original artist or an AI/Impersonator. It should be clear without a doubt.
There is a line and it’s pretty generous but I think they crossed it, most likely purposely as to drum up controversy and make a quick buck. It’s a shame because this kind of irresponsibility is only going to cause problems.
It’s blatantly meant as satire and obviously within the protections of the First Amendment.
I wholesale disagree that they crossed a line at all.
How is this satire?
Is Alec Baldwin appearing on SNL as Donald Trp considered Satire?
How different is the end result as a from a human prompt guided AI creation, created by comedians that is mimicking any public persona at all?
As far as your understanding of the nuances, what is the specific reasoning and background providrd from the creators themselves on this?
Looks a lot like you, among many others, are just reacting with the anti AI pitchfork crowd and throwing mud at anyone that doesnt fall into the narrative bubble you prefer on this.
Are you saying this is a satire specifically on the current AI world views, or that all satirical comedy specials are protected by the first amendment and can be made available in the same way this was?
How different is the end result
They are exactly the same and I would have the same opinion about someone mimicking George Catlins voice, recording a set and then uploading it to YouTube under his name.
My issue is more with the labeling than with the AI. I’m actually a huge AI advocate, it’s also why I think we need to be responsible with it and hold those that aren’t accountable.
These guys are looking for a quick buck and it’s just giving fodder to those that don’t want us to have free access to AI and it’s outputs.
As for the lawsuit, ultimately I think the platform should be held responsible for not having better policies on clearly indicating when a video is an AI impersonation.
Even the labelling itself in this case is part of the satire.
I’m saying satire falls under protected speech already, period. Your position requires it doesn’t.
I mean, fair enough. But what alive person titles their show “I’m glad I’m dead?” Especially since people that know George know he’s dead. It’s almost The Onion level of satire. And once the video starts, it immediately starts with a disclaimer that it’s not Carlin, but AI. Nobody would sit through the entire show only to be dumbfounded later that it wasn’t actually Carlin risen from the dead.
We can’t really go on a case per case basis on this imo. It would start to get silly fast, like it’s okay if the wording makes it kind of obvious as long as it’s dead people.
And ya, everyone knows he’s dead but not everyone knows all of his shows and skit, in a year or two, the AI specials will vastly outnumber the original ones and not all are going to have such an obvious tell in the name.
Don’t get me wrong though, I think it’s fine as long as it explicitly states it’s from an AI or impersonator in the title.
You’re right, it can lead to a flood of new material that could overshadow his old works. But that would basically require it to be as good if not better than his old works, which I just don’t think will happen. Had nobody bat an eye at this, it would have just sunk into obscurity, as is the fate of many creative works. Should more shows be made, I think after the third people would just not even care anymore. Most haven’t even bothered to watch the first, after all.
I also think it will eventually become normalized, it’s hard to keep track of. I also think these lawsuits should be aimed at the platforms for allowing mislabeling and not at the individual creators.
I like Vernor Vinge’s take on it in one of his short stories where copyrights are lessened to 6 months and companies must quickly develop their new Worlds/Characters before they become public domain.
It’s worth pointing out here that this script was probably written by a human.
Good. Can’t wait for Nintendo to sue Palworld, too. All this AI garbage needs to be put in it’s place.
What’s the alleged crime? Comedy impersonation isn’t illegal. And the special had numerous disclaimers that it was an impersonation of Carlin.
Sounds like a money grab by the estate, which Carlin himself probably would have railed on.
What do you mean by “comedy impersonation” - parody, or just copying a comedian?
If I were to set up a music show with a Madonna impersonator and slightly changed Madonna songs (or songs in her style), I’ll get my pants sued off.
If Al Yankovic does a parody of a Madonna song, he’s in the clear (He does ask for permission, but that’s a courtesy and isn’t legally mandatory).
The legal term is “transformative use”. Parody, like where SNL has Alec Baldwin impersonating Trump, is a recognized type of transformative use. Baldwin doesn’t straight up impersonate Trump, he does so in a comedic fashion (The impersonation itself is funny, regardless of how funny Trump is). The same logic applied when parodying or impersonating a comedian.
If I were to set up a music show with a Madonna impersonator and slightly changed Madonna songs (or songs in her style), I’ll get my pants sued off.
Drag shows do stuff like this all the time with zero issue. Artistic freedom is a thing.
This is the sort of thing a person rattles off on gut alone. “Artistic freedom” is not legally defensible - if your work isn’t entirely unique, you need to fit within Fair Use in the US.
If you’re in many places outside the US (like Japan) there is NO Fair Use carve-out to copyright (which is why Palworld may be more fucked than if they were a US company.)
If I were to set up a music show with a Madonna impersonator and slightly changed Madonna songs (or songs in her style), I’ll get my pants sued off.
Wait, so America’s Got Talent aired a crime with this Elvis impersonator?
Granted, the AI Carlin made it clear that he was NOT the real Carlin, but this Elvis is trying to be Elvis. 🤷♂️
I think your Madonna example is completely fine as long as they don’t call themselves Madonna and start uploading videos on YouTube with her name on it (like is the case here).
Madonna owns her name and trademark but not her tone of voice, style of songs or her wardrobe choices.
In the same way, The George Carlin estate doesn’t own his speech mannerism or comedic style but they certainly own his name.
How is the AI impersonation of Carlin different from when Paramount used actors who looked like Queen Elizabeth or Barbara Bush, or human impersonators who sound just like the real person they’re impersonating (besides the obvious difference)?
I’m not saying Dudesy is in the right. Making an AI system sound like someone somehow feels different than an impersonator doing the same thing. But I don’t know why I feel that way, as they’re extremely similar cases.
It’s because a person is directly doing it. It’s not odd that our laws and mores exist for the benefit of people trying to do stuff.
Even comparing a photocopy to a forgery, at least the forgery took some direct human skill, rather than just owning a photocopier
I hear you, and I thought about that before posting the comment, but does method matter? Does human skill in something make it any more right, or does a computer being directed to do something make it any more wrong? The final product is essentially the same, no matter how it was achieved.
Whether I, unprovoked, physically attack someone or I command my dog to attack someone, I’m being held responsible for the attack. It’s not so much the method or the tool that was used as it is the product, because the act is wrong.
Better yet, to your point, whether I draw the Simpsons and sell that image or print an image of the Simpsons and sell it, it’s considered wrong without permission of Groening.
The question is: Is it wrong to impersonate without intention of deceiving, using any method? I’m not arguing for or against. Simply asking moral questions. It’s a quandary, for sure.
Obscenity.
Publically exhibiting a disgusting object,
Oh like that law they are trying to pass in Texas now that outlaws porn?
In what way?
Where’s the line? Were they parodying Carlin? Or just using his likeness? Can Fox News do this with Biden?
This is a far larger thing than just a comedy impersonation.
Donald Trump, while president, was impersonated by thousands of people as comedy acts. Some people even had full time gigs doing it!
It’s not a illegal when you are doing it for comedy. Pretending to actually be someone who you are not, is fraud, but that’s not what we’re talking about.
Mimicking someone’s voice or putting on a costume in their likenesses doesn’t make it illegal.
If it did, then Elvis impersonator festivals would be a mass crime gathering!
Not even for comedy but for art in general.
If we couldn’t impersonate likenesses in art, art would fucking suck. Think of every fictional character who ever met a well-deserved demise that was inspired by a real person.
Hell, look at The Crucible. Required reading when I went to high school. Literally an allegory for the red scare and McCarthy’s communist “witch hunts” going on at the time of its writing.
Not just that, but being critical of the rich and famous, especially high-profile politicians, is an incredibly important part of art. It’s practically the origins of modern theater. And inversely, arts criticism is an incredibly important part of politics.
Right of publicity has been a thing in American law since 1953. Not in every state, but in many of them, including California, where Will Sasso (who is responsible for this) lives.
You do not have a legal right to impersonate someone to publicize your podcast in California. That is exactly what he did.
So it was the fact that he used an impersonation to promote a podcast that’s the issue, not the fact that there was an impersonation? Is that what the lawsuit is going after?
I think so. If you personally made “George Carlin AI Album #2” or whatever and put it on YouTube and didn’t link it to some moneymaking venture, I doubt they would be suing. This is two comedians using a third, dead, comedian to generate revenue for their own comedy.
Even though the AI Carlin said numerous times that it was not the real Carlin?
It’ll be interesting to see how this lawsuit develops.
Ford never said the singing voice was Bete Middler’s in this case- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midler_v._Ford_Motor_Co.
If you watch the video it’s very clear from the beginning that it’s a fake voice and they used AI to write the jokes. It says flat out it’s not George Carlin. There is no way anyone could be mistaken. Also it only kind of sounds like him.
And when someone edits that part off? What then?
What then? That person may be held liable for whatever crime you believe was committed.
The comedy special not only prefaced the show with multiple disclaimers, but also jokes about it during the special.
If someone wants to edit it to be deceptive, then that’s on them.
The creator would have nothing to do with it.
It’s something the law isn’t equipped to handle as written.
And fear of things for which no law can be ready imagined in their extremes is how I got my current attitude to everything legal.
About the event itself - well, I suppose Carlin himself would be amused by the fact.
Whether it’s presented as real seems a reasonable line to me.
Fox News could not use it to mislead people into thinking Biden said something that he did not, but parody like “Sassy Justice” from the South Park creators (using a Trump deepfake) would still be fine.
Fox News could run it with every disclaimer out there and it would still get picked up by every other conservative channel and site as legitimate.
This is why likenesses are protected.
And they deserve to lose the lawsuit on First Amendment grounds. Full stop.
Anyone that actually knows the story behind it from a context beyond the anti-AI circlejerking narratives knows it was a form of comedic parody put together by comedians.
But Anti-AI circlejerking is the only thing Lemmy knows how to do!
deleted by creator
I’m all for comedy that upsets people
So you’re a big fan of Roseanne?
I’m torn. I can see why they would be upset. And they may have a case with likeness rights.
But at the same time, this specific example isn’t trying to claim any kind of authenticity. It goes out of its way to explain that it’s not George. It seems clearly to be along the lines of satire. No different than an impersonator in a SNL type sketch.
I guess I don’t have any real problem with clearly fake AI versions of things. My only real problem would be with actual fraud. Like the AI Biden making calls trying to convince people not to vote in a primary. That’s clearly criminal fraud, and an actual problem.
My only real problem would be with actual fraud. Like the AI Biden making calls trying to convince people not to vote in a primary.
That’s the difference between impression and impersonation. My disappointment in the Lemmy community for not understanding the difference is immeasurable. We’re supposed to be better than this but really we’re no better than Reddit, running with ragebait headlines for the cheap dopamine hit that is the big upvote number.
If it were a human doing a Carlin impression, literally NOBODY would give a fuck about this video.
