• CHINESEBOTTROLL@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    countries in which the Dictatorship of the Proletariat failed to cede power to the working class and establish a socialist economic structure

    Oh, so like every single other place that tried to implement that deranged system? Thank you for this very important distinction.

    • bouh@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      What about all these capitalist places that fell into fascism? What about the successful capitalist states that are currently falling into fascism?

      • CHINESEBOTTROLL@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        What about them? The choices here are not “what we have now” vs “trust the people that want to try communism again”

        • bouh@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          My point is about the flawed argument : “communism is bad because the attempts have failed”. Well, there are more capitalist attempts that failed than communist ones, so the argument doesn’t hold.

          • CHINESEBOTTROLL@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            My argument is not “look how many attempts have failed” but “look, of all of these many attempts, every single one has turned into a kafkaesque nightmare”. At this point it is not even clear that “successful communism” is something that can exist in our world

            On the other hand, while many (depending on your perspective you might even say most) capitalist systems fail, there are absolutely some that work ok. Of course nothing is perfect in the real world. But the life of say a danish person is not only materially well off, but also free and full of dignity, which was true of none of the experiments in communism

            • bouh@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              I’m pretty sure many Chinese are well off, free and full of dignity.

              It’s also easier to be a successful country when you’re not under ambargo just because you’re not sold to capitalist companies. Did the US left even one communist country live normally?

              But more importantly, how many successful capitalist countries, today, aren’t going fascist at full speed?

    • TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      It’s so very capitalist to look at failed attempts to escape capitalism which were sabotaged by capitalists as indication that the need to rebel is the problem.

      • gxgx55@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Failing to account for greed for power some people have is in itself a fatal flaw, to be honest. Anyone who advocates for the exact same actions and glorifies the USSR knows what they are doing, they’re hoping to come out on top after their desired revolution. Unfortunately, there are plenty of those kinds of people on this platform…

        • phobiac@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Out of curiosity, how do you think governments in large capitalist economies (such as the US) properly account for greed for power and keep it in check? Do you think they are doing a good job on that front?

            • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              That’s objectively false. USSR managed to provide everyone with food, housing, healthcare, education, and jobs. Nobody worried about losing their job and ending up on the street or that they wouldn’t be able to retire in dignity. People had reasonable work hours and enjoyed over 20 days vacation. None of the capitalist regimes around today are able to achieve these things.

              • PrettyFlyForAFatGuy@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                “USSR managed to provide everyone with food, housing, healthcare, education, and jobs”

                the victims of the holodomor would like a word

            • phobiac@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              You might want to turn that incredibly critical eye you’ve got for communism back in on capitalism, that’s all.

              • gxgx55@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                I… am?

                What is this, I am against dictatorial abominations, so that means I am in favor of capitalist abuse? I am literally saying that opposition to capitalism is shooting itself in the foot by tolerating the existence of authoritarian “communists”.

                Unless you’re an actual tankie, your words towards me make no sense.

                • phobiac@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  Misunderstanding on my end then, I made some clearly unfair assumptions. I agree with you there and apologize for the mischaracterization.

        • TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Are Leftists advocating for the exact same actions as the USSR, or are Capitalists gaslighting the ignorant into believing they are?

          • gxgx55@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            No, I’m just saying tankie infestations are so widespread and loud that they have a decent amount of leverage on what the average person thinks of communism, and tankie opposing leftists are either not loud enough, or not numerous enough.

      • CHINESEBOTTROLL@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        failed attempts

        They didn’t fail. I mean you can criticize the ussr, but it was not capitalist

        which were sabotaged by capitalists

        What a weird thing to say. The USSR had sovereign control over the largest country in the world by far + a lot of allies. The capitalists can’t even get rid of north Korea. Its not the capitalists, the system is just shit

        the need to rebel is the problem

        I mean its fine to rebel, but if your goal is communism I will bet on another case of “tHatS nOT rEaL coMMUnIsM”

        • TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Communism doesn’t include a hierarchy of power enforced by violence. The two concepts are antithetical. The USSR was somewhere between capitalism and fascism.