13% of Democrats agree with Trump on that.

What the actual fuck?

  • archomrade [he/him]@midwest.social
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    1 month ago

    The US has a growing fascism problem

    It does not go away with Trump. I wish democrats would address it instead of pointing at Trump like he’s an aberration

    • SoleInvictus@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      1 month ago

      Fascism is the problem. Trump is a very notable symptom, but many others are also to blame for the fascism issue, including some democrats. I believe this fixation with Trump is due to people wanting simple answers to complex problems.

      • azertyfun@sh.itjust.works
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        1 month ago

        The symptom is on the brink of winning everything.

        When you have a 42 °C fever, you focus on the fever before worrying about the infection. Dead people don’t need antibiotics.

      • brianary@startrek.website
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        1 month ago

        The fixation is because there is no clear line of succession. If he fails, who steps in? They’ll splinter and fragment. They’ll still be deplorable, but less effective when not united behind a single authoritarian leader.

        • archomrade [he/him]@midwest.social
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          1 month ago

          Like how democrats splintered and fragmented when Biden stepped down?

          They’ll reform and continue gaining power in lower-level positions until the next election, like they’ve been doing since 2020

          I cannot emphasize how naieve it is to think this problem will go away if all we do is beat trump, or even if he dies or gets incarcerated.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldOP
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      1 month ago

      The funny thing, though, is that the people who supported slavery also generally supported immigration. And I don’t mean by importing slaves (that too, of course). They wanted immigrants because they wanted America to grow. Sure, they didn’t want black immigrants, but that’s a whole other thing. When Chinese immigrants started pouring into California during the Gold Rush era, the response wasn’t, “immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country!” it was “Hey! Dirt cheap labor! And stay out of the buildings with the posted ‘no Chinese’ signs or else.”

      So even those people, awful as they were, wouldn’t agree.

        • InverseParallax@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          For peace, he knew how monstrously cruel and evil the south was and that they would never tolerate black people as anything but chattel.

          Removing them made sense.

          I wish he wasn’t so kind and gentle, giving every slave owner to their slaves and walking away would have solved most of Americas problems to this day

      • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        When Chinese immigrants started pouring into California during the Gold Rush era, the response wasn’t, “immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country!”

        Chinese Exclusion Act says hi.

        • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldOP
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          1 month ago

          Okay, fair point. But that wasn’t really a “poisoning the blood of our country” thing either. It was a “they tuk’r jerbs” situation.

          • InverseParallax@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            It was a ‘catholics are evil and all follow the commands of the pope so we can’t let them in, they’ll sell us all out to the European powers’ thing.

            • Carrolade@lemmy.world
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              1 month ago

              Not just fleeing debt or crimes. People tend to be pretty well familiar with the British Empire using Australia as a penal colony, but that didn’t really get going until after the American Revolution. Before that they just used the 13 Colonies. Not quite as far to travel, bit cheaper.

              We’ve largely blotted out that particular perception, though, replacing it with pilgrims in funny hats fleeing religious persecution. Which, there were those too, of course, but there was also quite a lot of every other sort of person.

          • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            Oh, no, there was definitely strong fears at the time that foreigners would ‘ruin’ America, and blood-related arguments were far more in vogue then than now. Even foreigners as white as the Irish and Germans.

  • WoahWoah@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    The Trump campaign doesn’t hammer the immigration issue just because they’re xenophobic racists. They also do it because it’s one of the few issues that they can run hard on that rallies their base and has the potential to attract some democrats.

    People that hate immigrants from either party consider it a central issue, so because it’s so charged, there are actually a small subset of democrats that will hold their nose and vote for Trump because of this single issue.

  • corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca
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    1 month ago

    “think of how dumb the average guy is. Now remember that half the population is dumber than him.” – George Carlin.

        • bobalot@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          Nativism is unfortunately a consistent undercurrent.

          Look up the “Know Nothing” movement.

          • Melatonin@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            1 month ago

            This country, possibly your grandfathers or great-grandfathers (and in many cases grandmothes), went to war against Nazis, as did most of the world. There were a few fringe sympathizers, but they weren’t representative of “the greatest generation.”

            This shit is a new Nazi wave, and it’s not a continuation of something. It’s a flare-up of an old ugly root. All over the world these shits are gaining ground. New media empowers them.

            • EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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              1 month ago

              The idea that the world united against the horrible atrocities of the Nazis is post-war propaganda. Your average person didn’t know anything about what was going on until photos of the camps made their way home as we pushed into Germany itself. Most countries didn’t give a shit about the Nazis until they were on their doorstep. Most people said, “Hitler’s only saying that stuff to get elected. Once he’s in office, he’ll calm down, you’ll see.” And then they said, “Well, if we leave him alone, then he won’t bother us.”

              Many people across Europe and North America actually agreed with Hitler’s views about the Jews before “The Final Solution.” Antisemitism was common across Europe and North America, if not the globe. In Mein Kampf, Hitler refers to America as the sisterland across the ocean that shares his values.

              The phrase “Make America Great Again” was used by the pro-isolationism political group the America First Committee, who formed in 1940 and dissolved after the attack on Pearl Harbor, who largely opposed support for the UK. And they had over 800,000 members from all different backgrounds (from Democrats and Republicans to communists and anti-communists) with major tones of antisemitism and pro-fascist support amongst its leaders and speakers. They dissolved 4 days after Pearl Harbor and joined the war effort, not to fight the Nazis but to protect the US.

              The Nazis were inspired by the treatment of Native Americans when they started their camps, and we had our own camps for Japanese Americans. We hated the Chinese when they came here, and we hated the Irish as well. Most ethnic groups coming to the US settled in communities of their own culture from their homeland. That’s why the culture is so varied here, even across a single state. To quote somebody else, “Racism is as American as apple pie, and some people will see hatred of the first as hatred of the second.”

              I remember the days after 9/11, when attacks on black people doubled, attacks on Jews tripled, and Muslim parents were asking their kids if they wanted to change their name to something more American to avoid being bullied. That racism has always been present. It was just often couched in the lie of being edgy jokes or just that one racist uncle at the family party. The biggest differences today are that they’re no longer afraid to say it openly, and the number of young men caught up in the rhetoric of the online fascist pipeline that gives them a target to blame all the problems in their life on. The ironic racist jokes of their teen and childhood years stopped being ironic at some point and became their actual beliefs.

            • Kintarian@lemmy.world
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              1 month ago

              In 2016 they said it couldn’t happen here. They laughed at the idea of trump getting elected. They were shocked when he was elected and racism once again reared its ugly head. In Germany they said it couldn’t happen here and look what happened. Now we have Trump, the racists have come out of the woodwork, project 2025 was revealed and we’re very close to the end of America if we don’t do something.

            • n2burns@lemmy.ca
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              1 month ago

              The idea that Nazi sympathisers were a fringe group is an vast oversimplification of history. Yes, America chose to fight against the Nazis, but there were huge racist/eugenist movements at the time that included high-ranking politicians and military personnel. Look up the America First movement for just one example.

              I first learned about this from the podcast ULTRA. I kept having to check their sources and do further research, because what they said sounded so wild that I felt I should have already known it. Instead it’s just another example of people not wanting to teach their uncomfortable history like the Tulsa race massacre, Indian residential schools in the US and Canada, the Tuskegee syphilis study, etc, etc, etc.

              Also, I’d suggest you learn about the history of Nazi Germay. The Nazis weren’t this huge supermajority of the German population, they just had people in the right positions, took power by force, and the populace went along with it. It’s not hard to see parallels with a lot of events in US history where if things went just a bit different the USA could have become a racist, authoritarian state.

  • rsuri@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    13% of Democrats agree with Trump on that.

    More proof of fake respondents. Basically some people, for whatever reason (depending on the poll it could be financial) just speed run the polls with no thought about what they’re clicking on. So it makes any extremely unpopular view appear more supported. I can’t find much about how this was done, if it was an online opt-in poll I’d be especially suspicious.

    • catloaf@lemm.ee
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      1 month ago

      Any good pollster adds questions for quality control and throws out the result if they’re answered improperly.

  • lousyd@lemmy.sdf.org
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    1 month ago

    Compare to George W. Bush, who said:

    “We’re also a nation of immigrants, and we must uphold that tradition, which has strengthened our country in so many ways.”

    and:

    “Some in this country argue that the solution is to — is to deport every illegal immigrant and that any proposal short of this amounts to amnesty. I disagree. It is neither wise nor realistic to round up millions of people, many with deep roots in the United States, and send them across the border.”

    and:

    “We must honor the great American tradition of the melting pot, which has made us one nation out of many peoples. The success of our country depends upon helping newcomers assimilate into our society, and embrace our common identity as Americans.”

    Source

    I’m not saying G.W. was good or anything, but god damn that’s a big change from what we see now from Republicans.

    • Nuke_the_whales@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      I got a lot of heat for saying it before, but as a Latino, out of all his shit, racist is not something I ever got from Bush. He did a lot for Africa in terms of foreign aid, more than any president before him. He has positive things to say about immigration like you mentioned, and he grew up around a lot of Latinos, and his brother is married to a Mexican. So I never saw his family as racists. Fuck how is it possible I’m missing the Bush family?

      • nifty@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        You never saw GW Bush as racist, but Middle Eastern Americans would disagree because leaders at that time didn’t do enough to combat the wave of Islamophobia which occurred after 9/11. Now it’s just the Latinos turn being the scapegoat. Republicans almost always play the racism card, just the target is different. Americans deserve better.

        Edit to point out that when I say “Republicans” in my post, I mean the talking heads. I know individuals and people who may vote Republican may not necessarily feel the same

        • projectsquared@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          I know individuals and people who may vote Republican may not necessarily feel the same

          But the racism card never becomes a deal-breaker. Republicans are more likely to get in line and go to the polls than those who lean to the left. If you choose to associate with and elect people who broadcast hateful rhetoric, you bear responsibility.

  • Rhoeri@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    Sooo…. A third of Americans have no problem admitting that the part of their brain that processes logic and reason is irreparably damaged.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldOP
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      1 month ago

      To be fair, a significant percentage of those non-natives didn’t choose to be here in the first place.

      Not the paleface ones, but…