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Capitalism but better Balanced
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Open source software owned by a non profit, in this instance. It’s not necessarily the Capitalism but the Capitalists.
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If Firefox goes away, I’ll use Epiphany or Konquerer before I subject myself to anything that makes me view ads.
FF has way too much groundwork laid and way too much mindshare currently (especially given the rust language and all…) If, for some reason, thousands of devs just gave up on mozilla, more would continue the path and fork it most likely.
Mozilla is the result of people giving up on Netscape. It will live!
It’s the result of Netscape losing to anti-trust behaviour by Microsoft and open sourcing their code as a final parting gift.
Netscape was struck down Firefox rose.
Not using Chrome is so easy. I mean, Firefox is right there and is a better browser to boot. I genuinely have no idea why people still use Chrome for everything.
Some websites load faster in Chrome. But the reason why Chrome is so ubiquitous is because for normal people, Google is still the plucky user friendly company they were in the early 00s.
No lie, I actually had to shift to Chrome from Firefox today. Some websites are straight-up broken on Firefox, while others load painfully slow (e.g. try arc.net on Firefox vs any Chromium-based browser). Not to mention the massive shame of Mozilla leadership treating its own flagship product as a second-class citizen in favour of “AI initiatives” or whatever the fuck those C-suites want to stud into their resumes.
To be fair, chromebooks are great devices for kids, and the family link platform makes keeping them “secure”, easier… a lot easier!!!
Even on Chromebooks you can install Firefox.
Actually that’s a fair point. I totally forgot about Chromebooks.
It grinds me a bit, as I did have a Linux version if Firefox installed on my Chromebook, but because the book is just a sofa device and doesn’t get any love (especially from the little shits), it runs dog slow, so I end up just using chrome on it, and suffer the pain of not having things synced between devices. Thankfully the most important thing, bitwarden is syncing, so I can manage the suffering.
I keep going back and forth with Firefox and Vivaldi. The chrome based browsers just tend to run better. I love firefox on mobile but on desktop it’s tougher for me to stick with. Also Mozilla seems to have a different goal for the future with all the other products and ai weirdness they recently announced.
All chromium browsers are supporting Google’s grip on the internet.
This is true. Which is why Mozilla needs to focus on making a better browser instead of adding their own ai bullshit.
Mozilla has frequently pointed their efforts into the wrong direction. We need to politely encourage them to focus on the things that matter.
Are those fractions of a second really worth your privacy?
Because normies were using IE, then enough of them had their “tech enthusiast” grandson show them Chrome in 2010 and now that’s all they use.
Serious question. Is it actually better for the typical user? I don’t mean people commenting here. I’m thinking about the majority that don’t care about privacy, blocking ads, quality technology, etc. for those people, I’m guessing that Firefox is equivalent. Just another browser that works fine. So why switch??
I run into compatibility issues and weird bugs with firefox a lot. I’m still using it as my primary browser, but I have to keep a chromium based browser ready for times when a website won’t work in firefox. I can put up with that personally, but I wouldn’t want to set up firefox on family/friend computers because I don’t want to get a call whenever something doesn’t work and they don’t know why.
Chrome based browsers also have some super useful features (like tab groups) that firefox doesn’t have a good alternative for.
Interesting. I’ve heard this many times from people here on Lemmy. I’ve been running Firefox for ~6 months now (previously Brave) and haven’t seen these issues yet. I don’t even have a chromium based browser available on any of my devices.
Regardless, I hear you about not wanting to be personal support for friends and family. That’s annoying
People inevitably bring up compatibility issues in Firefox when this subject comes up, and nobody ever has specific examples.
Firefox is right there and is a better browser to boot. I genuinely have no idea why
I used to use mozilla by Mozilla, too. THAT’s why.
some small problems i face is that
while i use youtube it runs slower.
and the quick image search feature using google lens is not present.
and telegram voice call does not work.
You can use a different frontend for YouTube. You’ve got Freetube for pc, Yattee for MacOS and iOS and piped on any platform. These solutions also protect your privacy and block ads.
My problem with these is that the quality is always bad. Usually 720p max and only H.264 instead of VP9. YouTube quality is already bad enough as it is and nerfing it even more feels awful.
I work at a small company - absolutely everything from work macros, accounts and shortcuts are all intertwined in Chrome, they’ve been using it like that for ten years - it’d be faster for me to find a new job then to unclog that mess from the entire office. I still installed firefox for personal use though.
in my previous job we were allowed to install some old version of firefox through the companys own portal. but we couldn’t access internet with it because “firefox is vulnerable”. they use google suite so chrome was the default browser, but edge worked too and even IE…
Firefox is not the better browser in anything but privacy. Maybe it could win in customisability, but that’s something only a few percent of users care about.
It has longer load times and sometimes breaks sites entirely while using about the same resources. Yes, the reason for that is that website creators don’t deliberately support it, but the normal user only cares about functionality.
I still use it and recommend it to anyone that asks, but saying that it’s the better browser is just delusional.
“But Chrome is slightly more convenient! Why would I suffer tiny inconvenience today in order to save me from way greater inconvenience later? Who am I? Some reasonable person?” - typical Chrome user.
We can’t forget that a lot of people have absolutely no idea that this is happening or what it means. Many folks just think the Chrome icon is how you access the internet and have no idea that there are other options. Helping to educate those folks is going to be a significant part of minimizing Chrome’s dominance.
This comment is 20 years old if you replace the word Chrome with Internet Explorer.
It was literally in the chrome “manifesto” when it launched.
As true now as it was then.
As a former chrome user it’s so real. Chrome connects every device for you and once you ARE in the loop it’s hard to leave it. Wanna switch to Firefox? Oops suddenly your authentication doesn’t work anymore. Oh what about those useful Google logins tied to everything now? Good luck with that.
It took me huge effort to switch off chromium based browsers because the longer you use chrome, the more it worms it’s way into all your services making it harder and harder to switch. I still can’t figure out how to seperate my Yahoo account from my Gmail account
A huge reason I left is realising that if google decided I broke their TOS on something like say, YouTube ad blocking, they can just terminate by Google account and every service attached to it suddenly becomes unusable. I’d rather not be taken hostage like that
Edit: for all the wise people in the comments. I was trying to decouple entirely from Google products, not just chrome
Let people use whatever they feel like, ffs.
Nobody’s stopping you. Just saying it’s either ignorant or stupid to, and actively makes the internet a worse place.
The internet will do fine, don’t worry. And no, I don’t use Chrome.
People using it, however, won’t.
Your statement means nothing.
What makes you so confident? It’s not as though the internet’s “fine” right now compared to where it was 20 years ago.
I see your entire personality is hating Mozilla
I’ve noticed a significant uptick in the number of users here who actively hate on Mozilla. Granted, Mozilla makes some baffling design choices (let me disable the QR code reader in the address bar on mobile FFS), but it’s never about that. It’s always about Mozilla being too “woke” or whatever.
Just the exact caliber of person you’d expect to use a browser such as Chrome, in spite of knowing better, and then to gloat about it.
Are you talking about me? I’ve been on FF for about 20 years, until Mozilla keept pushing crappy changes (despite unfavorable feedback from beta and nightly users). I ditched it in 2021 for something that works better for me. That, plus a bunch of controversies about Mozilla’s (mis)management, made me stop supporting them and advocating for FF. FYI, I don’t use Chrome, even if I use a chromium-based browser. And no, I don’t feel guilty because of this. Whay should I?
Does google listen to your feedback?
I don’t use Chrome
I guess it was more of a general statement. I didn’t intend to target you specifically, just a trend I’ve seen. I’ve seen people link to statements made by Mozilla about things like supporting LGBT+ rights, and taking issue with that sort of thing, or who say they don’t care if the Brave CEO is actively disseminating bigotry. Y’know, the type of person who watches the Quartering and complains that we’ve become too “woke” and too sensitive.
I don’t think you should feel guilty. Even if you’re one of the people I’m describing above, I don’t think you should feel guilty. I just think you should opt to change. According to every therapist I’ve seen, guilt is pretty counterproductive for everyone involved.
I’m all for LGBT+ people rights and whatever. Eich is not my friend and I don’t agree with his personal views. Still, the “tool” they make is more appealing for me than competing “tools”, so…
I don’t actually feel guilty, of course. That was just an overstatement.
LOL, who cares about Google. Take your meds, dude.
If only you had made this comment regarding AI plaigirism, you’d be swimming in the upvotes instead
If I cared about upvotes (scores are disabled on my end, btw), I’d simply write “use Firefox” over and over, which is what most people on the fediverse like to do (as if Mozilla was any better, nowadays).
And that is why soon there shall be a monoculture of browser and all control shall be ceded to massive corpo.
Thank Mozilla’s (mis)managemet for that.
So you are supporting the even greater evil to spite Mozilla? It’s not mozilla pushing manifest v3 that will cripple ublock origin.
Yes. Mozilla doesn’t deserve it’s reputation or its status. And I don’t need Ublock Origin. Stopped using it years ago.
I’ve been repeatedly surprised by how many people are willing to defend Mozilla by saying every other corporation pays their CEOs too much too. It’s as if Mozilla can do no wrong, as long as other companies are doing worse somewhere else.
And if that’s the standard people hold it to, well, they’re basically condemning it to have no value whatsoever
That’s what I have noticed as well. Mozilla always gets a free pass.
Off topic remains off topic.
It probably doesn’t help that, up until days ago, the biggest articles written about this were by a guy with a history of wanting Mozilla – and a handful of other companies – to fail, not because of bad behavior but because of a personal/political vendetta. (For comparison, he’s put out content supportive of Twitter despite its CEO.)
I guess it’s easy to say that any critic is one of his sycophants, but I’ve heard the criticism growing louder even within Mozilla’s own communities.
Which is all also irrelevant to the browser behavior.
Actually no, thanks to Mozilla becoming a shittier company, it’s making Firefox worse in the process. For example, since Firefox 119, it’s been shipping with a data-sucking sidebar that it never announced in its release notes.
No one ever remotely gave mozilla a pass by warning that firefox is the last bastion against a return to the proprietary web we barely fought off with IE6.
I can link to some comments if you want. But I think it’s fair to assume that on the internet, people will come up with the dumbest opinions possible
Nope, it is ignorant users misleading other users as the subject is firefox’s behavior and not the corporate behavior just as the reason to avoid chromium crap is the behavior of chromium crap and the actions of googliebet are an entirely different issue just as Mozillas are.
let people burn tires in their backyard if they feel like it, ffs
One thing is illegal, the other is not. Try a different analogy.
Everything the Nazis did in the Third Reich was legal. People who resisted them were breaking the law. Maybe we should evaluate things by their impact (pollution/invasion of privacy) rather than their legality.
Fine. People, stop buying stuff on Amazon, then.
I like how you say that as if its impossible.
I stopped buying things off of Amazon many years ago because they don’t respect privacy and are unethical.
Well done. Same here.
Now, please actively bother other people (IRL family and friend, not strangers on the internet) they must do the same.
People here on the Fedi seem so eager to teach others what is best for them.
If your morals and ethics hinge on legality, then I’ve got some bad news for you…
I’m not the one making absurd comparison.
You said, “One thing is illegal, the other is not,” which is directly equating legality with ethics/morality.
Edit: If I’m somehow misinterpreting this statement, then perhaps you can explain how legality is relevant here?
I fail to see the lack of morality on chosing a browser over another. People use what works best for them. If for most people what works best is Chrome, well, I don’t feel there’s anything wrong in their choice. Buring tires “is wrong” regardlessly.
but see, they wont. thats the problem.
google/microsoft are circling the wagons and are about to prevent anything but chrome and edge to be ‘official browsers’
so, to your point, yes we want everyone to use what they want. but continuing to use chrome will kill the very ecosystem that allows the choice you want to have.
Those of us that lived through the active X nightmare are well aware of the danger monoculture creates. Shame educating others is considered offensive to the sheep.
What are you using that makes it crash, virtually never happens to me.
For me Firefox crashes all the time in normal use. I am talking minimum twice a day. It also has this weird problem where it will pin one thread to 100% and lock up the whole browser when downloading files. I also had to disable video hardware acceleration or else Twitch crashes every 5-10 minutes but luckily my CPU is so strong that it’s not too big of a deal to do software decoding.
I still use it out of principle but it has been a way worse experience than Chromium ever was for me.
Yeah…I’m gonna say you have something that isn’t playing well with Firefox. Extensions, hardware…. I’ve been using Firefox for years now across multiple OS’s and hardware and I’ve never had anything like this happen to me
Way ahead of you. Been using Firefox since it was called Phoenix.
If I’m forced to use a Chrome browser, I use a deGoogled version of chromium. I can’t think of the last time I’ve had to use it though. Firefox support is a priority for my company’s IT dept.
since netscape navigator here. even used netscape during the dark ages (when aol controlled it).
My main problem is that I prefer other frontends to Firefox. I mostly use Vivaldi and think it’s great, but of course it’s Chromium based. I read somewhere that it’s just way easier to base a browser on Chrome than it is to base one on Firefox. It would be great if the frontend and backend were separated with a unified API and you could simply choose a frontend/interface (Vivaldi) with whatever backend/engine (Gecko). That’s not how it (currently) works though.
There are Firefox forks, but they’re just that: forks with slight modifications. Vivaldi and Arc are basically completely different browsers. Even Orion isn’t based on Gecko, it’s based on WebKit.
Add to that small compatibility issues with certain websites/web apps that aren’t Firefox’ fault, but rather developers targeting Chrome instead of “100 % web standards”. Still, as a user you’ll likely into (small) issues from time to time.
People saying “just use Firefox” have a very narrow view on how any of this works and I sometimes feel like it’s some form of elitism where the cool kids use Firefox and everybody using anything else are “lesser people”. In reality, people have different requirements and priorities. It’s similar to people posting “just use Linux” under every article talking about problems with Windows.
Yes, Chrome and Google sucks, I agree, but there isn’t a single universal solution to this problem.
Let me add that support for passkeys is becoming more and more important and Firefox doesn’t support passkeys. Yes, it supports forms of WebAuthn (YubiKey and the likes), but not “scan this QR code with your smartphone and use biometric authentication to sign in”.
I tried really hard to use Floorp which fixes most of my problems with stock Firefox but even that just showed me how excellent Vivaldi is compared to other browsers.
It would be great if the frontend and backend were separated with a unified API and you could simply choose a frontend/interface (Vivaldi) with whatever backend/engine (Gecko). That’s not how it (currently) works though.
Arc has floated this idea. Currently Arc is Chromium-based, but they say they’ve designed it to allow for swapping engines in the future.
IIRC, Edge had a similar feature for a while, allowing you to run legacy Internet Explorer tabs if a site required it. Not sure if that still exists.
what are the other options
firefox is still not there in terms of language support and translating like chrome has etcetera
not bashing firefox or chrome honestly asking what else is there?
epiphany browser is even further behind
I have switched to Firefox but I’m having a hard time. Firefox feels sluggish compared to Chrome and uses an insane amount of memory. And I really miss tab groups as Chrome had them. There are some add-ons for Firefox that try to imitate this feature but none of them has everything I want (e.g. the ability to collapse a group in the top tab bar). And most of them build on top of Firefox tab groups which come with an isolation feature I don’t want (and haven’t found a way to disable for tab groups).
My experience has been the opposite. I will have far too many tabs and windows open and with Chrome I would often see memory usage over 10gb. And on more than one occasion I’d have to end task on chrome as it was locking or already locked up.
Switched [back] to Firefox in the last year or two, same plugins, no change in behavior, and it never locks up. Memory usage is fine. Right now with just as many windows and tabs open it’s using 5gb ram.
Chrome has been uninstalled from my PC.
And the tab containers plugin from Mozilla is really incredible.
I like the idea of tab isolation, but I don’t want to be forced to use it for every tab group. I want to use tab groups to organize my tabs because I have way too many of them open at the same time. I often create tab groups on the fly just to keep things organized. I don’t want to login into every account once I decide I need a new tab group.
I agree the tab containers are pretty specific use cases. It’s invaluable for AWS. If I still used Facebook it would be great to keep that isolated from all the other sites that share data with it. I like to use it for banking which is done very specifically. Otherwise yeah everything remains in the non-container tab.
And I was not saying the containers relate to memory usage.
Chrome is the new reddit
Firefox has always been great to use for me.
Yeah yeah, Mozilla pays its clueless CEO and other execs way too much, mismanages its finances in general, fired the wrong people, fell for the hype about AI, has a board full of former Facebook and Twitter execs, relies excessively on telemetry to justify their worst UI design decisions, and occasionally has delusions about someday becoming an ad platform.
If it weren’t for all that we’d all be better off. But sometimes you gotta vote for the lesser evil, and at least they don’t do all this shit.
We really need more browser engines floating around.
As of now we really only have 3, Webkit, Firefox, and Chromium.
Everything is based on these 3. And I know, technically chromium and firefox are both based on webkit, but they’re so far gone from webkit they function as their own engines.
tbh i think it would be better if there was a single collaborative engine instead, owned by a non-profit company like The Linux Foundation
maybe the W3C could establish their own but idk if they even do anything these days
I use Chrome on the rare occasion when I have no choice but to use FB. Always with VPN. Otherwise it’s FF.
