My thoughts is that it’s a simple situation really. If they’re harassing or assaulting people, the women will call the cops or something, simple situation and get the guy arrested. If he’s not doing anything, it’s nothing harmful. Apparently that’s not a solid enough answer. What should I have said?
You should have said “How is that not a solid enough answer?”
Probably should have changed the subject or said goodbye. Arguing with conservatives is exhausting and usually in bad faith. It’s about winning, not exploring a topic together.
Do you realize that this belief actually prevents you from discussing in good faith?
If you dehumanize the other, then you can’t be open to discussion with them.
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Nothing, they’re not genuinely interested in a discussion. They’re just trying to pin you with a bad answer and will keep moving the goal post until they think they gotcha.
And if they can’t “getchya”, they’ll just stop responding or change the subject without ever acknowledging that you’ve proven your point.
This. ☝️
It’s best to ignore them. There’s no use getting into an argument with someone who’s disingenuous to start with.
I’d say the best answer to this conservative is that it’s like open carrying a handgun. Just because someone is carrying a handgun doesn’t make them the bad guy, so you leave them alone.
But if they draw that weapon and threaten someone, you call the cops.
…or another good guy with a gun?
You know I still don’t understand the issue people have with this. Every bathroom I’ve been in either has stalls to use with urinals on the side and dividers between those for some privacy, or is only designed for one person at a time anyway. I can’t imagine having any issue with anyone of any gender in those types of bathroom, unless they where being clear creeps and trying to press an eye to a gap in a divide or something. Which isn’t solved by limiting the genders who can enter, it’s solved by building better dividers and not leaving gaps.
This isn’t Rome my dude, we’re not all sitting in one room and having a face to face while we clart.
In my opinion, what restroom to use depends on what you have between your legs. “Gentlemen” for penis. “Ladies” for vagina.
Great, how are you checking and enforcing this
Why are conservatives so worried about hypothetical scenarios involving gendering re: restrooms?
It’s come up exactly zero times ever in my entire lifespan, and I’m in my mid 40s now and have been in hundreds, if not thousands, of public restrooms.
Literally the only times I have EVER seen it was when I was at concert and a woman came in and exclaimed that the line was too long for the women’s. I have never once seen a man go into a womens room
I have seen it in a few instances where the baby changing facilities were only in the women’s bathroom, and a father needed to access them. I wish that bathroom discourse could involve structural inequities like this, but the bigots are overly concerned about what is in people’s pants
I have actually used a restroom many times when someone of the “wrong” gender was cleaning it. It turns out that person did not try to get an angle to scope out my junk, or molest me or whatever these people believe is going to happen. If someone did that, I would pretty much react exactly the same regardless of their gender. I’d be like “bro what the fuck no free previews.”
I am a straight guy and I have used a woman’s restroom.
But only in the context that it was a single restroom and the men’s was occupied. I just unilaterally executed my male privilege and declared that the woman’s restroom was unisex for the time period that I needed it.
There was nobody else in the room and if there had been first the door would have been locked or I would have been absolutely mortified.
The amount of times I as a straight cis man have had to go in the women’s room for a changing table for my child is unacceptable
This was super common in college dorms as well. The etiquette was that if your hookup or friend was using the bathroom on your floor you were supposed to stand outside and let people know about it. You know, informed consent and all. Absolutely zero people ever gave a shit.
The entire fear kind of makes me assume that all conservatives are just opportunistic rapists who are kept in check my the thinnest veneer of social order.
Are single-sex dorms a thing over there? Ours were always mixed with unisex bathrooms - stalls for everyone.
They tended to be segregated by floor at that time. So you’d have a men’s or women’s room on every other floor. There were also still a few women’s only dorms, but my experience with those was basically the same. Nobody is leaving the building just to take a piss.
What exactly do they think goes on in these bathrooms anyway?
Whatever you answer to a question like that is going to be attacked. The best way is not to answer, but reply with a different question, for instance “what are you afraid of?”
Uhhhhh there are no urinals in the ladies so everyone is in a stall? So???
Does this fella want the ladies to shoot him?
(Using the ladylike Darringer from her pocket book, saying “ah do declare” of course)
The greatest thing in life is those 4 way street uninals.
Well you haven’t lived until you’ve had communal log over an open pit in the woods.
…so manly.
Lol remember the piss troughs from the 1980s? Gaze into another man’s eyes while you pee into a bathtub!
We’re assuming that you’re talking to someone who’s willing to have a discussion in good faith.
You’d first need to know why that isn’t a sufficiently solid answer. Are they looking for a perfect solution? Because I’m pretty sure there isn’t one. What we want is an improvement over the status quo, and sometimes an overall improvement necessitates a worse experience in certain areas.
That’s a false dichotomy. Perverts of any gender and inclination can do harmful stuff anywhere. In an idealistic world, a bathroom shouldn’t have to be gendered, because all that you’re doing is relieving yourself - I mean, look at your own homes first. Putting the gender-neutral stuff aside, this isn’t about trans-women, this is about men who are perverts. Even if things such as cross-dressing, gender-changing surgeries or trans-women were non-existent/erased in a hypothetical world, these perverts will find other ways to violate or harass women.
Its an ancient argument and your answer is correct.
There is no cock check at restroom doors anyone can enter.
Wish there was.
Can’t tell you how many times I’ve went through the embarassment of realizing I left mine at home halfway through a piss.
Is there no one in the replies here who thinks women have a legitimate discomfort, or unsafe feeling, having men around in a toilet space, even if the men aren’t actively being harmful?
No women here who had difficult upbringings with men? No men whose daughter or sister or female friend feels uncomfortable letting certain barriers down around strange men?
Of course there is an important discussion about how bathroom culture changes as society’s acceptance of trans people changes.
But, OP, I think what you would do best beyond what you said, is to acknowledge that some women have a legitimate concern, even if there’s not an easy answer. Once you have that point of agreement - once the other person can see you care about the concern they’re coming from - you have a foundation for discussing a real problem and/or solution.
Otherwise you’re just buttimg heads to win, and asking an internet echo chamber to adjudicate.
So quick question: You are completely fine with a trans woman using the women’s rest room right?
Is there a magical barrier that keeps men who don’t say they’re trans from entering women’s bathrooms?
It’s quite interesting to see them make this argument while also claiming that gun control laws can’t possibly work because criminals won’t abide by them.
I guess we need to allow everyone to use any washroom because we need a good man in the women’s washroom to be around to save the women from a bad man in the women’s washroom
Careful, conservatives have historically been against desegregating spaces.
Not if it means white men can go wherever they want!
A fictitious rapist can only enter women’s bathrooms for raping purposes if they loudly declare that they are trans.
Oh I see, it’s like bankruptcy.
Unexpected !dundermifflin@lemm.ee
“See I’m trans. You have to let me in here to rape people.”
The social contract, and the knowledge that it isn’t acceptable and any women inside would likely scream and the man would be perceived as an attempted rapist and would face consequences.
In my experience what happens is you look at each other confusedly for a moment, wondering who is in the wrong restroom. Then you realise there are no urinals so it’s probably the women’s restroom. Then the man leaves a bit embarrassed. Source: Happened to me at least twice (once the signs were really unclear).
So, no. I don’t think a rapist cares much if they’re perceived as a rapist. And a lot of (maybe most?) rapists know that they probably won’t be convicted even if caught.
None of those things prevented rapists from entering bathrooms before.
The social contract
and the knowledge that it isn’t acceptable
Rapists, well known followers of social contract who only do things that are acceptable…
It’s not concerning at all that this didn’t seem immensely silly and wrong when you typed it…
and any women inside would likely scream
Because if a bathroom allows trans women, women will then be unable to scream while facing an attempted rape?
the man would be perceived as an attempted rapist and would face consequences.
Are you advocating that any man who even accidentally enters a woman’s restroom startling a woman be declared an attempted rapists?
Otherwise, they will be considered an attempted rapist whether trans and allowed in the bathroom or not…when they start doing the attempted rape…
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Yeah, this is probably the right way to go. There’s actually no bathroom police, for most people. It’s an issue in the first place because when someone is trans people will deputise themselves just to harass them.
Reminder that this is not a thing that has ever actually happened.
…Or reported, rather (I’m not American).
