Some people live in dangerous places and believe that treating criminals like human beings is the same as ignoring their crimes. These people believe that human rights should only be for those who deserve it by not harming the “good citizen”.
Part of it is disagreement over what should be a right. I have genuinely met people that belive rights like protest, movment, voting, legal rep, should not given they must be earned. So they are pro rights just a very limited list.
Example say “health care is a right” in the usa.
I am a “privileged whitevl guy” who married into a central American refugee family, and I can say there are a lot of people in developing countries that love human rights, but hate when they are applied to specific groups. Because if everyone has nothing, trying to help marginalized groups seems unfair to the majority who is also oppressed.
So if you want to fight femicide, or anti-LGBT discrimination, people not in that group often get angry because they want help too.
I obviously don’t agree, but I understand the viewpoint given their life experiences. What I don’t understand is when I meet Americans/1st world people who express the same sentiments. They need to go fuck themselves in the ass with a rusty spork and die of sepsis.
Only evil people and the ignorant are opposed to human rights.
religion goes a long way to dehumanizing others, even in the same household
I had this experience a short while back, and it really shook me. Granted, this was on the Internet, where people are more willing to say wild things or generally go mask-off, but I was downright flabbergasted. I’ll try to summarize the various arguments without inserting my own bias:
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because they view human rights as a social or legal concept, and not inherently more important than other social or legal principles
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because we as humans haven’t historically respected them, and don’t respect them universally even now, so demanding respect for human rights is a form of privilege
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because the idea of human rights requires a belief that humans have special dignity above that of other creatures (this one I found especially irksome, because I found the arguments denigrating to animal rights)
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because various groups advocating for human rights don’t agree on what those rights are, so blanket support for human rights is not something they can do
I’ll try to find the reddit post where this took place if I can. It was… it was something. If I’ve misrepresented any of the arguments above, it was not intentional but only because I find them so alien that I cannot understand them properly.
Found the reddit link now I’m off work. I tried to reread it but I got to the part where someone asserted that antebellum chattal slaves didn’t have human rights and got too angry / frustrated / disgusted to keep going.
r/AskALiberal question “Do you believe in natural rights?”
InB4 “that’s natural rights not human rights”: I know the terms aren’t synonyms, but the concepts overlap so heavily, and some of the replies to the question were so vehement, that they read to me as a rejection of the validity of human rights as a concept in part or in total. I’m willing to be corrected on this, but if it gets heated I will (advance warning) probably get emotionally overwhelmed and need a long time to compose a reply.
That’s mostly just a bunch of different people using different definitions of “natural rights”.
Many people seem to think that natural rights are ones granted by nature, but in actual philosophy nobody cares about this. Clearly wild animals or inanimate objects don’t grant humans rights, it’s what basis humans consider to be the source of a right. A natural right would be a right granted to you by another human based on the nature of your existence. It is a special consideration towards you on the basis that you are a human.
And the “divine right of kings” origin story is ridiculous, the concept of natural rights was not invented to justify monarchy or God.
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Maybe your understanding of human rights is different than theirs. Maybe
Theres a lot of different ideas of what human rights should be. Abortion is the easiest example. Its a human right to abort, which to some is murder. In that case, it would make sense to be against to be against human rights, if you believe that right is to murder.
Or from the other perspective, pro life people see Abortion as violating the right to life.
Abortion is self defence, not murder.
Normally, to be honest, it’s because they want to hurt someone. Look at the Conservatives in the UK, who are desperate to repeal human rights legislation so that they can send refugees to Rwanda without right of appeal.
Note that those Conservatives still think that they have human rights. Their excuse for depriving refugees of human rights is that some of them have entered the country illegally. Yet, none of them thinks any Conservative MP should be detained arbitrarily or deported, even though they now acknowledge that they, their government and their party have broken the law in various ways. No, they want to strip rights from other people. Their argument doesn’t wash.
This remibds of a police raid during the trump years in Kentucky. “They are hurting the wrong peole” said one woman as a mexican man was departed leaving his wife and kids behind.
Very mask off moment. Just admitting the role of law is harming some people.
“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect" - Frank Wilhoit
I feel like whenever a law like this is written, a coin should be flipped, and all of the people who voted to pass the law have that law applied to them based on the outcome of that coin flip. And that should be fine right? It’s a fair and equitable law, respecting human rights.
It’s like the classic traffic engineering joke, how do you get the speed limit increased? You rigorously enforce the speed limit where the The legislators live and drive
When two children are arguing about sharing something, the diplomatic adult has one of the children divide the thing into two piles, and the other child gets to choose which pile they want. We need to get more of that do unto others as you would have done unto yourself into politics
Right, it’s like when people try to justify colonialism. Would they be okay with their country being conquered and turned into a colony? No? Okay, so we’ve established colonialism is wrong. Everything after that is increasingly ludicrous special pleading. ‘Oh, but country X was more economically developed, so it was okay,’ is only a consistent argument if you actually go on to say ‘… and that’s why it would be a good thing if South Korea conquered Italy.’
In addition to the reasons suggested in several of the comments here so far, the philosopher Giorgio Agamben is extremely critical of the concept of human rights since they are a legal and political construct, and the same legal and political systems are used to create ‘exceptional’ circumstances in which the rights are deemed not to apply to certain groups. Relying on these rights is flawed, in his view, since they will be suspended when most needed. The Philosopize This Podcast did an episode on this just recently.
It’s a requirement for Republicans, apparently.
Rights are in conflict so you must at times. Abortion is a big one these days where a babies right to live is in direct with moms right to not be enslaved. It is rare for anyone to even acknowlege this conflict instead most acuse the other of hating human rights.
Most people disagree it’s a baby. It’s still a fetus in the vast majority of cases. All laws agree with that since no laws grant fetuses rights, they merely restrict a woman’s choice.
I don’t know what most people believe - and I doubt you have data to verify your statement. However I do know that at minimum it is a very significant minority that disagrees with that fetus statement.
I’m trying to elevate the discussion to a different level. Instead of trying to defend your position can you instead step back and start understanding why some people think it is absurd? The world would be much better if people could do that more often.
In this case no, the other side is absurd. Not everything is actually a multi-faceted problem - some people think the Earth is flat and we can point and laugh at them
I understand. Some people think fetuses are babies, people, at that point. And they see abortion as murder. And if you think a fetus is a person, then it IS murder. It’s a completely valid position. Not one I think is correct, but it’s easy to see how they get there.
And if you believe that then you also believe in slavery for the mother. There’s no other precedent for someones literally supporting the life of another that can’t be transferred to another guardian. And if you think a fetus is a person you’d not excuse abortion for anything, even rape. Which then means you’d think raping someone can enslave them bodily.
Also most of those people have so little regard for actual babies and do so little to protect them that their stance rings hollow. And they also aren’t willing to extend legal benefits as if they were babies. So their actions contradict their stated values and they aren’t taken seriously.
Turns out those same people don’t think the fetus counts as a person when it’s not in their interest
Some people see blood transfusions as unholy, it doesn’t mean they get to decide the conduct of everyone else.
That you’re being strongly downvoted for properly analyzing an unpopular perspective is disappointing but not remotely surprising here.
It’s not an analysis in any sense of the word. “You have no data and neither do I”? What an intellectual giant.
The post is a joke.
They’re a piece of shit human.
There have always been such (it is human nature) - but right now they feel bold enough to speak and act, whereas previously they had been too afraid and embarrassed to do so publicly.
In South Carolina, various KKK-like groups said in advance that they wanted to kill people, wrapped barbed wire around baseball bats (in order to better kill people with), showed up to kill people, then actually killed people, then bragged about having killed people… Oh right, but the other side was not successful in securing a permit for their peaceful protest, so you know, there are “many sides” to every issue I guess.
Misinformation/brainwashing techniques are powerful. Like if you believed that a particular type of human was the root of all evil in this world, then you SHOULD want them dead, under those circumstances… right? You do not bc you know better, not just about that one group but more fundamentally that it is ideas that bring about evil, not people. But the people killing people do not know that, and it is to the advantage of others who seek power, and want to use the army of sheeple to advance their own agenda, for those sheeple to not know that either.
