I’ve been thinking about martial arts and how really it is useful these days since a lot of places will have criminals hiding firearms or in the U.S. some states have conceal carry.
Whilst it contains discipline and it is enjoyable to train in a club for, say Karate, I just think it might not be that useful in places where firearms are commonly held, all it really takes is for someone to take safety off, aim, pew pew and that’s it.
I suppose I probably get this thinking from kung fu where it’s seen more of an art form then actually being a serious bone breaking form of combat
Useful for what?
As a kind of joke, look at these senior citizen doing tai chi in the park, while many 80 years old can’t walk without a cane. Looks like pretty useful.
Judo or Aïkido will teach you how to fall, which may save you a visit to the ER if you slip on the street, and pretty useful again.
It’s also a fun way to exercise and stay in shape, so again, it’s useful
Break falls are the only skill I’ve kept from my martial arts training, but it’s literally the most useful one.
op mentioned the context is situations where firearms are used. so pretty sure they meant useful as a self defense method and not useful as a way of exercise
Get good enough and just dodge the bullets
Cool. Gun kata before Equilibrium.
That was some hilarious bullet dodging
Aside from how problematic the film is, I loved this as a kid!
tai chi in the park, while many 80 years old can’t walk without a cane.
As an aside, get someone to show you what they’re really doing when they’re doing Tai Chi. The muscle memory they learn is - when sped up - brutal and painful to others. It’s great how they hide it in a dancy movement class for blue-haired park-goers.
I’ve also met Fumio Demura at a seminar, and he comes across as just an old guy who wants to go fishing when he’s not teaching us to be damaging – so while they may look old and slow, there’s more going on.
Yeah people who don’t practice Tai Chi usually don’t realize that most of those movements they’re doing out there are slowed and exaggerated joint locks and throws. It is a combat training routine used as exercise.
Let’s be honest, most people who learn Tai chi as an exercise also don’t realize that it’s joint locks and throws.
The groin strike rule was repealed for a time. BJJ still dominated.
I’m not a martial arts person. I couldn’t care less. But it’s weird how vigorously people will argue against what seems self evident in the closest things we have to a no holds barred setting.
useful for what? when I was doing martial arts I was in the best shape of my life. as far as fighting? Fuck no.
I’m no expert, but I think basically unless it’s a one on one with someone who’s unarmed, and maybe inexperienced, it won’t help much. Every good instructor would tell you to give them what they want, or maybe run away if they only have a knife.
Various militaries will train soldiers in some form of close quarters combat. All of them will say the best this training will do is buy time for someone with a weapon to come in and finish the job.
If you have a history of getting into fights, then yes it’s useful. Otherwise you’ll basically never use it. However there are plenty of benefits even if you never use it.
- Strength
- Flexibility
- Knowing that you’re going to get hurt even if you win the fight
- Etc
Exactly. Martial arts will make you live longer, not because you can kick ass in a fight, but because it is generally a great way to maintain cardiovascular health.
If need to train for an unarmed fight, I’d personally suggest the 400m sprint.
What is the “meme” of the 400m sprint (best MA discipline btw), I’ve seen it popping up everywhere the past couple of weeks haha
I begun judo a few weeks ago. The teacher was clear: it may not be useful in actual fight, but we don’t fight often in.the real life. But it’s great for.your body, spirit and it will teach you how to fall without hurting you. And these things are way more useful than self defense.
I got up to judo brown belt as a teen and it has saved my ass countless times. Not in fights, but in silly ass falls. Having good instincts when falling is a lifesaver.
Gods yes. Just the falls I’ve taken since becoming disabled that I prevented injury because I know how to fall safely would make the time spent training worth it.
I had a few bike crashes: 2 times breaking the same collarbone + some head trauma. All of it could have been avoided by knowing how to fall, head first is bad, elbow first is bad and also chin first is bad. After learning how to fall I should also learn how to use a bike maybe 😅
All of it could have been avoided by knowing how to fall
That is so damn true.
I’m a downhill biker but I learned a bunch of combatives in the army so I know how to fall really well. My friends are always surprised when I walk away from a crash that should have broken something and all I have is a scratch on my shoulder.
My secret is just go limp. Tensing up is when you hurt yourself in a fall.
The best physical training I ever had were: judo and working in the dish room of my college dining hall where the floor was always wet and slimy with food. Between the two of them, I never slipped again. When I saw an ice covered stairway or slope, I could go shooting down it with confidence I’d stay on my feet. Between the slippery floor while carrying breakables and knowing how to fall, falling was just not an issue.
Of course now I want me some of that “youth” back
It’s a sport. It’s not meaningfully more useful than other sports.
If you want something that’s genuinely useful in a confrontation, give up the fantasy of beating people up. Every time you fight you run a very real risk of incurring permanent harm or worse. Instead, sign up for track and learn and practice how to run away really fast.
TLDR: fighting not good. Not fighting, good.
If you want something that could actually be useful in real-life situations, pick up running.
The science on how humans survived through some seriously apex predators tags this as the reason. We evolved to run, the Usain Bolts of the world not being rare back in the day, which is why we are even here, and now we’ve de-volved into a sedentary society where Usain Bolt is the only one.
It was never about our speed, it was about our endurance and persistence. There’s no point in history where we were the fastest creature in the local food chain, a deer or Buffalo was going to sprint faster than us, but when they had to stop to cool off or recover from the fast burn of energy, we were right there, right behind them, still coming.
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Usain Bolt was faster than the hundreds of billions of people that came before him. He set a world record that still hasn’t been broken.
Can’t stop laughing
You should see a doctor about that.
Lmao
“Doc, he’s still going!”
“If he keeps it up at this rate, his as will fall off entirely!”
Small technical error, you’re supposed to yell as you do that.
If you want to know what world, look at MMA.
Brazilian jiu jitsu is basically the only credible form of what most people mean when they say “martial arts” (meaning Asian origin with some kind of progression, often with belts).
China is so salty that karate can’t survive the age of the Internet they are blackballing it’s critics.
Search for “bullshido” if you want some egregious examples
MMA has rules that don’t exist in real fights that almost certainly affect the dominance of styles
They didn’t have many at the beginning. Which rule during the rise of BJJ do you think affected it being dominant?
The rule against using firearms in the octagon.
China is so salty that karate can’t survive the age of the Internet they are blackballing it’s critics.
Karate is Japanese.
Did you mean Wushu?
It’s closer to Pro Wrestling than a form of self-defense, like they often have storylines and everything.
Whoever told you that Chinese people are mad over a performance art is lying.
China is so salty that karate can’t survive the age of the Internet they are blackballing it’s critics.
Karate is Japanese, mr Sensei sir.
It’s incredibly useful for fitness and overall health. It’s also very useful for self defense. You will get hit way harder in the dojo than you ever will on the street, and learning to take a punch is a big part of fighting. I trained in martial arts for several years when I was younger. One time at a punk concert someone twice my size took a swing at my face, and I slipped the punch and knocked him out before I even realized I was in a fight. The training works. It’s also great for self-confidence. Lastly, guns aren’t as prevalent as you think they are.
Edit: if you want the training to be more about actual self defense and less about fitness and art, then be sure to pick a style that focuses on combat. Jeet Kun Do, MMA school, Brazilian Jujitsu, Kick Boxing, Western Boxing, and Western Wrestling are all very applicable in real fights. Shotokan Karate is okay in most fights, and better than ground focused styles like BJJ, wrestling, or MMA, against multiple opponents, but less effective against a single opponent. Although, you should really try running first if you have to fight multiple people at once, unless you’re a badass through and through. I watched my 2nd degree Shotokan black belt friend knock 3 dudes out once in the span of about 2 seconds, but he has trained since he was like 6 years old and is a multiple time champion fighter. Most people can’t do that.
This is a difficult question.
If you’re a bouncer, then yeah, mixed martial arts is definitely useful (e…g., something like both muay thai and Brazilian juijitsu). For a typical person that’s unlikely to ever need to defend their life, probably not.
As far as which martial art you should take, if you’re going to take one… It depends on what you want. If you want a physical activity that doesn’t have to be practical, then take up something like kyudo, kenjutsu, or aikido. If you want something that’s practical, then look into juijitsu and things based more in grappling. If you seriously worry about getting into a confrontation with someone that’s armed, then look up Shiv Works, and see what they have in your area.
A concealed carry permit can be useful, yes, but it’s very, very situational, and requires practice. Moreover, ever single bullet you fire outside of a range has to be accounted for.
I second Cabbage. RUNNING will more reliably save your life than any amount of combat training. But also, situational awareness. Most incidents can be easily avoided simply by paying attention to what’s around you and not putting yourself in that sketchy situation to begin with.
If you’re a bouncer, then yeah, mixed martial arts is definitely useful (e…g., something like both muay thai and Brazilian juijitsu). For a typical person that’s unlikely to ever need to defend their life, probably not.
NO.*
competition martial arts have rules. Rules that you abide by and train to follow. and inevetibably, training to fight inside these rules will invariably leave you open to certain kinds of attack, and to miss exploiting openings in the other guy. Yes. This includes MMA. You can tell that people in MMA follow these rules because nobody is biting the other dude’s balls off. or twisting them off, or generally kicking to the groin. (groin strikes were originally allowed, but then banned in UFC, for example. Too many crushed testes)
and for the record, if it’s you or them… yeah. get nibbly. You also don’t see people snapping necks or stomping skulls after a toss. It’s very rare for any kind of combat sport organization to allow things that will, you know, kill their competitors.
If you want to train for self defense… train for self defense.
*Disclaimer: Muay Thai wasn’t always a competition thing. the OG Muay Thai will absolutely fuck an asshole up. most martial arts were originally military training, and if you can get training on THAT, yeah, that’ll be fine. in the US, you’re never gonna see that, though.
Again. just to reiterate. You’re best off not getting in the situation, and that’s best avoided by maintaining awareness of what’s around you. You’re second-best off running the fuck away. Constructive Cowardice is nothing to be ashamed of- it will save your life. but, if it comes to it, and it’s you or them, don’t fight fair. Fair is how you die.
A bouncer isn’t usually going to be fighting to survive; they’re throwing some dude the fuck out of a venue, or subduing them until cops show up.
As far as my comment about Shiv Works - I stand by that 100%. Look them up. They train with bare hands, knives, and guns (firing non-lethal training munitions), and in awkward spaces (such as you might experience in a car jacking).
Any discipline that forces you to act while under pressure is going to improve your odds if you end up in a situation where fighting is your only real option. If you get sucked-punched on a subway, experience in e.g. boxing is going to be far, far better than nothing at all, despite the fact that boxing has rules. IDPA/USPSA will not, contrary to claims, get you kilt in da streets, because practice moving and shooting is better than not.
The idea that there’s a real distinction between self-defense and martial arts in general is nonsense. If you’re good in MMA, this is going to translate almost 1:1 to self defense. Here’s the blunt truth: most of the people that are going to attack a person have a LOT of experience fighting. If you want to defend yourself, you’re going to need to give yourself a lot of the same experiences, even if it’s in a more controlled setting, and “self-defense” classes aren’t going to do that.
And, BTW, I know a guy that teaches wu shu (Eagle Claw, I think?) that also works as a bouncer. He is very, very effective, and uses the things he teaches as a bouncer. He’s small–like, 5’5", 150#–and he punches well above his weight.
So, Road House isn’t realistic. bouncers (and security guards in general,) have already lost once they go hands on.
And yes, you bet your ass they’re fighting to survive.
Nobody fucks around when one mistake sends you to the ER or worse, fucking dead. Every time you go hands on, there’s always a chance some one pulls a knife or gun and ends you, maybe also everyone around you.
By the time you’re in a fight, you’ve lost control, you’ve already lost. Bouncers and guards are generally not armed in any capacity and rely instead on soft skills to descalate, and again, reacting before it gets to that point.
Further, that’s not self defense. the most useful self defense skill you can have is paying attention and not getting into a situation. The second most useful self defense skill is running away.
Uh. I know a whole bunch of people that have bounced at multiple clubs in Chicago. I know one guy that was loss prevention at a store in Chicago that used to love chasing people down, because he enjoys that shit.
Tell yourself that if you want to, but the truth is that bouncers are going to have to know how to fight to at least some degree, because they’re going to end up in fights.
I’m not certain, given your use case. As someone with a deep passion for martial arts (judo > Jiu Jitsu > Aikido > Tai Chi), I would say while they can be useful in certain situations (even tai chi chuan, which is certainly the most inner one). Self defense classes with actual teaching about fighting a guy with a knife/gun would be more suited, maybe.
Military, police, security and intelligence operatives train in it for a reason. You’re right that it’s not very practical or necessary for the average person. And for those who do need it, it’s an option of absolute last resort and desperation. Running away, if possible, is the wiser choice. But, it can make the difference in a life or death situation. Someone who knows how to fight and has practice doing it has a big advantage over someone who doesn’t.
Exercise: And if you find martial arts fun and a really good workout, more power to you. I think for many people, however, there are less injury-prone ways to get a good workout.
incorrect. we train in combatives.
Similar. but different. the differences are subtle and yet also very important. Like don’t-fucking-die important.
Settle down, Dwight. Combatives are based on martial arts. You’re being pedantic over semantics. I also already mentioned how important they are for some folks.
Actually, what you call Martial Arts came from what would be called today “Combatives”.
Martial was another way of saying “Military”. We call it “combatives” so nobody confuses what we’re teaching you to do with “Sport” or “competition” Martial arts- where the goal isn’t to kill your opponent in the most efficient means possible.
While there are only so many ways to move the human body, that distinction is rather important. Because you fight like you train.
The board breaking is just a small grift to increase your confidence. When you start out the person holding the board does most of the work to break the board. It’s several belts before the board start getting thick enough to put up a fight. All those boards are cut across the grain leaving short fibers that are able to snap.
You are training to dodge and block, Even redirect your opponent and use their actions against them. That’s not nothing. A lot of places will tack on a little disarmament and self-defense or run a class with that is the primary goal, But honestly you don’t want to use martial arts to try to take on someone with a gun or a knife unless it is absolutely necessary because there’s a high chance you’re going to get got.
Combat training is extremely useful, even play combat training, It puts you in a situation and has you react a certain way taking out some of the uncertainty and worry out of the situation. You start planning instead of reacting. But for the most part if somebody is threatening you with a gun or a knife you’re better off not trying to take it off of them and beat them up.
