A team of scientists say it is “beyond reasonable doubt” the Covid pandemic started with infected animals sold at a market, rather than a laboratory leak.

They were analysing hundreds of samples collected from Wuhan, China, in January 2020.

The results identify a shortlist of animals – including racoon dogs, civets and bamboo rats – as potential sources of the pandemic.

Despite even highlighting one market stall as a hotspot of both animals and coronavirus, the study cannot provide definitive proof.

The samples were collected by Chinese officials in the early stages of Covid and are one of the most scientifically valuable sources of information on the origins of the pandemic.

Their analysis was published last year and the raw data made available to other scientists. Now a team in the US and France says they have performed even more advanced genetic analyses to peer deeper into Covid’s early days.

  • RubberDuck@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    I’m not into conspiracy theories, but I find the confidence that is used in the defense of this origin just as Shakey as the lab leak theory.

    The lab location and research done means there is a lot of potential incentive for the Chinese government, the lab and even researchers in the field to not have it be a lab leak… As this would potentially cause an entire (important) field of study and their methods be regulated into oblivion by poorly written knee jerk laws.

    I’m fine with this as the accepted consensus on the subject, but I’ll keep my reservations for whatever good those do me.

    So how’s the abolishing of wet markets going? And the reduction of antibiotics use in industrial scale farming?

    • crashfrog@sopuli.xyz
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      2 months ago

      The lab location and research done means there is a lot of potential incentive for the Chinese government, the lab and even researchers in the field to not have it be a lab leak…

      They also have incentive for the origin not to be a live animal market that they very publicly had claimed to have already shut down.

      It’s equally embarrassing either way, so the embarrassment proves nothing.

      • massacre@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Equally embarrassing? Doubtful. One is a market which can be blamed on illegal activity even after being shut down and ‘little’ people arrested. One represents Chinas first foray into LVL 4 containment bio research and cost billions to build and government officials would have to be held accountable and foreign science assistance to that research program likely cuts off… I’m not pleading the case of a conspiracy theory here, but the lab’s proximity to the outbreak is incredibly suspect.

        • crashfrog@sopuli.xyz
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          2 months ago

          Equally embarrassing? Doubtful.

          Why does it have to be equally embarrassing? It just has to be embarrassing enough that they’d take steps to conceal it. Which they did. It doesn’t have to be the most embarrassing situation, just one of the ones that would spur them to act.

          One is a market which can be blamed on illegal activity even after being shut down and ‘little’ people arrested.

          But they did shut it down and they did arrest people and they even seized and incinerated every animal at the market without taking samples or even identifying and logging the species.

          On the other hand they didn’t shut down WIV, or really do anything to it at all.

          but the lab’s proximity to the outbreak is incredibly suspect.

          It’s 8km away, across a river.

          • massacre@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            My point is they had a vested interest in the scapegoat excuse. The market is a mild embarassment compared to a possible containment breach. Not taking samples of the meat and cataloging everything actually compounds the scenario. Also if for example a CDC or USAMRIID site was ‘only’ 8 km away from an outbreak of a disease they were studying, it would trigger a full on investigation and full genetic comparison. Also they would be looking at any scientist as a vector. People live near where they work. Someone accidentally exposed could easily carry out daily activity in the vicinity while contagious.

            • crashfrog@sopuli.xyz
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              2 months ago

              My point is they had a vested interest in the scapegoat excuse. The market is a mild embarassment compared to a possible containment breach.

              Ok, and I asked you why that matters. And you haven’t said.

              Also if for example a CDC or USAMRIID site was ‘only’ 8 km away from an outbreak of a disease they were studying, it would trigger a full on investigation and full genetic comparison.

              Well, but no, it doesn’t. For instance the CDC’s Enteric Diseases lab is in Atlanta, Georgia; it hosts the largest tissue collection of foodborne disease isolates in the world. If you were ever hospitalized for listeriosis in the United States, a sample of your disease isolate is probably located in a freezer there.

              And also people periodically get food poisoning from Atlanta restaurants. About 12 a year, let’s say.

              So every one of those food poisoning cases happens within 8 km of the largest food poisoning lab in the United States. Do you know how often they investigate whether the isolate leaked from the CDC lab?

              Literally never. Not ever. Because there’s no reason to, because people getting a disease near where the disease is studied is not statistically significant in any way.

      • Duamerthrax@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        People have been saying for decades before covid that the wet markets were a ticking time bomb. There probably have been viral outbreaks in the past, but the local population could have died off before it spread.

        I think a lab leak of a natural virus is plausible, but irrelevant.

        • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          I think lax saftey when experimenting with highly infectious coronaviruses is very relevant.

          Either improve the protocols or don’t experiment.

          • Duamerthrax@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            There’s a difference between lax safety and conspiracy to engineer a bioweapon. The main motivator of people pushing the Lab Leak conspiracy is that they want some villain to blame all this on.

            • RubberDuck@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Bioweapon is also a strawman in this case, he did not say that.

              In gain of function research more virulent strains are made to study and find cures against. So we have a better understanding of how these viruses mutate, what makes them tick and how we can disrupt that.

              Noone would intentionally set something like that loose.

              • Duamerthrax@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                There are definitely people saying that covid was an engineered bioweapon and the people saying that have a huge overlap with the people saying that it was a lab leak. Conspiracy theorists need a villain with a plan to make sense of the work and that’s why the lab leak theory keeps coming up.

            • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Not bioweapons. Covid isn’t dangerous enough.

              The prime conspiracy theory target is Anthony Fauci because some EcoHealth Alliance / NIH coronaviruses bat funding went to the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

              But you don’t need to subscribe to the Fauci Supervillan theory to suspect an accidental lab leak. China has already had 3 (2004, 2016, 2020) in this list. Pointing this out is not sino bashing (look at the number of US incidents). Accidental lab leaks happen all too regularly.

              • Duamerthrax@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                Back to an earlier point you made, how is it relevant that it was an accidental lab leak anymore? It’s China, they’ve either made better safe guards against possible break outs or made superficial changes for appearances. The international community can’t punish them for an accident that also hurt themselves. Hell, we can’t seem to keep their coast guard from ramming other ships.

                • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  how is it relevant that it was an accidental lab leak anymore?

                  Accidental lab leaks unfortunately happen. What is still relevant are the implications. The existence of the virus itself and it’s cover up are the problem.

                  The cover up

                  Mainstream media labeled anyone who mentioned the lab as a racist conspiracy theorists. Commenting on social media resulted in censorship.

                  WHO “invesigation” and Peter Daszak investigating himself.

                  Deletion of data from the WIV website.

                  Chinese closed policy and destruction of evidence.

                  No questioning science

                  Nature published a peer review saying that a lab origin was impossible.

                  Scientists hypothesising about lab origins were ostracised.

                  Source of the virus

                  In the wild, the nearest documented virus is 96% similar. Where have the 4% changes in the leaked version come from?

                  Have these 4% changes come from purposeful gain of function research?

                  Gain of function research in the US was banned in 2014. Did research stop or did funding just move countries?

                  Where else is secret GoF research being conducted? Is there sufficient saftey and oversight?

      • crashfrog@sopuli.xyz
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        2 months ago

        There are wet markets all over China and have been for…ever?

        Sure, and they all result in zoonotic illness.

    • nexusband@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      I still believe it isn’t that far fetched that they disposed some kind of experiment/test from the labs on the market…