Let me preface by saying, I have my SUV all set up with a bed and a kitchen and all the amenities I need to camp out in the woods. I like it that way I’m enjoying myself I see no reason to change.
A couple of times I have mentioned that when seeing a doctor and the next thing I know, here comes the social worker with a stack of papers. I tell them that I’m doing fine. That I like how I’m living. I didn’t ask for any unsolicited help. And they don’t seem to listen at all. At some point they just leave me with a bunch of paperwork in a huff. I don’t understand why they get so upset just because I don’t want their help.
Some good interactions here. Cant speak to the emotional content because I wasn’t present. Emotions are messy, who knows what happened between you two.
All I can say is that the relevant parties saw your conditions of living and recognized them as the risk factors that they are. You living well, and choosing that life, is a pleasant outcome. But they can’t know that without doing a follow-up assessment. For all they know, you’re living in your car scraping up railroad spikes to buy today’s heroin.
Highly disagree with the advice to lie to your doctor. As long as you are not a danger to others, making explicit threats to harm yourself, or harming a child, and as long as you’re following the laws, then they can’t force you to get services.
Next time, just tell them that you’ve already been assessed and were found to not be at risk. And if someone stops by, be friendly… they’re doing a really hard job that puts a lot of good into the world for a lot of people. Take any pamphlets they got cuz it might be useful knowledge. Educate yourself, etc. And keep on truckin! Thanks for the post.
You aren’t hurting anyone or doing anything wrong. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people with fashy instincts who freak out over anyone living an unconventional life. And capitalism frowns on anyone living freely and not paying rent, etc.
So true. If you’re not following the life script people freak the fuck out. Want to live in a vehicle? Don’t want kids? Don’t want to be married? Into BDSM? Your political views land on both sides? People just don’t know what to do with anyone that doesn’t fit in a box.
Why on earth is your doctor even allowed to share your personal situation with anyone? Did you consent to that? Else it’s a quite severe violation of your privacy.
You’ll flip when you find out that there are circumstances in which they are mandated by law to share your personal information. That stuff is regulated to hell, and rallying resources to help people sleeping rough is a good thing in my book. Maybe OP doesn’t need the help but the other 99% of the people living on their cars are at huge risk to life. Starvation, hypothermia, malnutrition, human trafficking, prison, just to name a few.
Insane. Where I’m from they are not allowed to forward anything. Not even billing information to a third party payment provider without explicit written consent.
It’s usually strictly regulated what is allowed and what requires consent. Like I said, life saving is usually the intended criteria. That’s how child molesters are caught. Are you gonna ask diddler daddy for consent to put him in prison for giving his daughter HPV?
Different pretense, if a kid is identified as a victim, authorities will be informed since they haven’t reached maturity yet, and the alleged perpetrator is the legal guardian.
If an adult falls victim to sexual abuse, they will not inform any authorities on their behalf but leave it to the person.
If an adult is a suspected victim of human trafficking the police will be alerted despite their consent. Sexual abuse victims will be contacted by police and social workers as it is their job, not the doctor’s, to offer assistance and determine the consent and course of action to take. Same thing happened here, the doctor is not qualified to make the judgment call, so they call someone who is qualified and authorized to make such decisions. For doing so, the doctor is permitted and expected to partially disclose patient information, like identity and anything they saw or heard that prompted them to call social services or police. As they did in OPs case. This is not the violation of rights you think it is. It’s actually a sensible compromise to try and protect the most vulnerable members of society. Adults can be vulnerable too.
A human trafficking course is required to review my healthcare license. They’re not used to seeing people with your skillset. Also, people who do adventurous things often do them well past the age where they’re safe. Just making sure that you know you have options.
Shocking twist: Kintarian is 12.
Idk, I once got threatened by a doctor for admitting to marijuana use. He said he was going to report me to law enforcement. It never happened but police kicking down people’s doors over suspected marijuana possession was definitely a thing that happened a few times in that town. The mayor even started a brawl with some medical marijuana picketers once.
If that was anytime in the last decade or so that’s horrifically illegal.
Depends on the country and jurisdiction
Weird. I’ve never had a doctor that gave a shit about marijuana use.
Varies based on location and doctor’s non-medical beliefs.
Uhh…if your doctor refers you to someone else within their own practice, that’s in no way a violation
It is where I’m from. Not even nurses have full access to the patient file. Confidentiality exists between doctor and patient exclusively, that’s why I’m so shocked.
In the US, medical records within a practice or facility are able to be accessed on a “need to know” basis by those working with the patient. If your doc refers you to another specialty, whoever comes to see you will have access to your medical record. Strict disclosure laws apply to releasing info to entities outside the facility
Or take their help on things not directly related to housing? A decent social worker can do so much for you that could be genuinely helpful.
I wish we treated unhoused with the same basic structure as hospice. Having a team with a social worker, Dr, nurse, and counseling for each person would go a long way to long term well-being even for people who choose to be unhoused.
That sounds wonderful, I wish we could do that. Maybe someday.
Honest question:
How do you make money for things like food, automobile costs, and your connected device (assuming phone)? I’m not trying to make a broader point. I am genuinely curious.
A lot of people have jobs online. A lot of people have YouTube channels that they make money off of. Me, I’m on social security. I’m retired and I make a little bit of extra money online. I save up money in a savings account just for situations I might get myself into.
Thanks for sharing. Glad you’re happy.
I blame this mostly on the doctor. The doctor should’ve asked you if you wanted to speak with someone about your situation, but lots of doctors prefer to just make decisions for people rather than ask.
The rest of the blame lies with the social worker, who sounds like a bad social worker. Active listening is Social Work 101, and it sounds like she didn’t do that.
Maybe your doctor’s office is full of people who are bad at their jobs. I recommend against extrapolating anything about these professions as a whole from your two experiences there.
Good point. I’ll definitely never mention it again.
Because they have 50 more people to see in the next 7 hours and some dipshit wasted their time scheduling them to drive out into the middle of fucking nowhere to see some dude that’s already told the last 6 people he doesn’t need them.
I was in the hospital and she didn’t have very far to go. But I kind of get the point. I’m sure she had 50 different people to see that day.
Idk how it’s relavant to them that you are basically a van dweller. As long as you are taking care of yourself (eating healthy, exercising, showing, and whatever else) then it doesn’t matter.
Maybe if there was some treatment that required you to have access to facilities you need in a house but I can’t think of anything. This is one of those times I would omit or just say you live in a house.
Just make sure you’re stashing away some cash in an account so you can replace your ride or put a down payment on a house if you decide you do want something a little less mobile some day.
As someone who has nearly lost everything to fire that was started by campers more than once there are externalities to your way of life that potentially harm others. I won’t accuse you directly because I don’t know you but the trend is there.
That’s why I do dispersed camping far away from other humans. I don’t use campfires, I checked the forest regulations to see if there’s any current fire restrictions in place, I pick up trash if I see it and I don’t leave any of my own trash.
I tell them that I’m doing fine.
That’s what most/all of their clients say at first. Especially alcoholics or other addicts do not admit that they need help.
So maybe you should emphasize this point a little more, so that they believe you right from start.
And emphasize that you’re not an alcoholic or an addict.
People who work in helping professions can sometimes have a lot of their identity and self worth tied up into it. A person who has not processed their emotions and baggage about their job/themselves/their place in the world/etc will unfortunately take that baggage out on clients. It is nonsense and I’m sorry you had to deal with it.
I would have thought that seeing a doctor should already be a “green” flag that you don’t need their help. Healthcare is an expense I axed a long time ago.
California, at least, has free health care with nearly the same requirements to qualify as food stamps. It’s probably easier to get medical care here being homeless than it is if you make more money that prevents you from qualifying because it covers damn near everything and you don’t pay a single cent. I didn’t even use my job’s insurance because I didn’t make enough to stop qualifying for the state given insurance and I’d have to give up $300 out of every check to use the one given by my employer. I barely made $400 each check.
It’s funny to me that in the USA the people with the best access to healthcare are often either the richest or the poorest.
That’s how they keep you from climbing the ranks. You need to take a loss for a while before things can actually get better, and you never know if it’ll be possible for you to get over that hump.
In a lot of the world, doctors’ appointments are free or low cost
I’m gonna be honest with you, there’s probably some red flags that your doctor saw that perhaps you’re unaware of. You say living in your van is a choice; are you being honest with yourself about that? Are you actually taking care of your hygiene this way?
Because one red flag I’m seeing is a van-dweller making a doctor’s appointment in the first place. Usually nomadic/hermitic people (as in, those who choose to live off the grid and aren’t doing so as a matter of circumstance) generally don’t go to the doctor, unless something is really wrong. So for you to show up in a doctor’s office at all is already anomalous in the first place.
It shouldn’t be understated just how important basic things like access to clean running water can be. And you’re using the words “van” and “SUV”, and not “RV” or “motorhome”, which leads me to believe that you aren’t taking care of some basic needs.
If you’re truly taking care of yourself and being healthy, then more power to ya; I’m honestly a little jealous of those who can live that life. But if you’re actually struggling, you should probably consider taking a look at the paperwork they gave you. Don’t get pride get in the way of getting help.
I had to have my gallbladder removed
So you’re a little older, on a fixed income, don’t have a support system nearby, don’t have a place you can stay that has dedicated bathroom facilities or even room to stand up indoors, and you just had a not-insignificant surgery that comes with, at a minimum, laparoscopic incisions, and could significantly affect the way your body processes its diet.
You may well be doing fine, but I’m not calling out either the doctor or the social worker here. Pushing you a little and making you insist you’re happy was a reasonable call.
That’s your point your point, but I’m currently sitting in an easy chair at my mother’s house. I just had a shower, and a snack and now I think I’m going to eat some ice cream while I watch Wheel of Fortune.
Well, I’m happy to have been wrong about the support system. Heal up, and maybe view the annoyance as one of the few downsides of your lifestyle. What’s offputting to you may save someone else’s life. Best of luck!
I hope the people that really need help get the help they need
I have clean clothes, I go to the laundry regularly, I have a portable shower, I have a portable toilet. I brushed my teeth, I clean my body, I get exercise everyday, I try to eat a low fat high fiber diet.
youre an outlier. an anomaly. you have to admit most people do not live that way, and many that do dont want to.
they are just doing their job based on the numbers, and there is no reason to take it personally.
It’s the taking it personally part I don’t understand. I say I’m fine, I don’t need any help. Have a nice day. That should be the end of it.
Let me give you a related example that should shed light on their stubbornness…
If someone gets in an accident and hits their head, they might have a concussion. How can you tell? Basic first responder training says to ask several questions. What we don’t ask is, “Are you OK?” because the patient will say “yes” even when they aren’t OK. It’s answers to the other questions that give us enough information to get a sense of whether our help is needed.
It’s quite possible that some social workers are acting in a similar fashion to first responders here. They want the details because their checklist is longer than yours. (There are other reasons that social workers might be annoying, as others have explained, too.)
That doesn’t negate your frustration, but maybe it helps you understand one cause.
So they might be doing triage
Yeah, because there’s a positive correlation between mental health issues and homelessness. I’m not super shocked that people in that line of work have difficulty seeing the distinction between homelessness and a strongly nomadic lifestyle. The “they seem offended” vibe might actually be more along the lines of frustration and sadness that they THINK you need help but are refusing to let them help you. At the same time, I dated a girl who was a social worker years ago, and she absolutely knew some people in the field who just straight up had a savior complex and would get angry at people who wouldn’t accept help… so it could be that too.
I doubt they’re taking it personally. A lot of people who very much do need help say the same thing you did, and they don’t know you. All they know is that you’re unhoused and refusing assistance.
Social workers are typically people who love to help people, it gives their life meaning and purpose. They have helped numerous people in rough situations get a comfortable living situation and have no further need of assistance and every time they are over the moon with joy for what they have been able to do for that person.
They meet people who genuinely need help that they can provide and are turned down because of pride/humiliation. Some of those people just need them to be persistent for their help to be accepted.
It must be so soul crushing and demoralizing to have someone you believe you can help tell you to take it on the arches.
While you don’t need their help and are happy living as you do, they think you do need their help and won’t accept it. Your radical freedom breaks their well-meaning, but misguided, hearts.
I’m not trying to crush anybody.
You are just trying to live your life and it is so unimaginable an existence that it is incongruous with their concept of a comfortable life.
There is nothing wrong with your life, so long as you are happy and healthy. There is nothing wrong with their concept of a comfortable life. Both are shaped by notions derrived from life experience and personal prioritizations and either party cannot hold the other to be worthwhile without a greater understanding of the individual.
Hurting someone else’s feelings is an unavoidable truth in living a radically different path that they do not understand.
The best you can do for them is to try and help them see that their path is not the only one. Help them to understand your needs are met and you respect their path.
Next time, you can try to help them understand that they can offer nothing of value that will make your life better for you and give them an opportunity to understand you are whole in your path. Ask them what they want your life to be like, what your life is lacking, what they can do for you, and address each of their points with salient and cogent arguments that express your contention in your life’s circumstances.
If their best efforts have no value to you, help them understand that, if you don’t want to hurt their well intentioned efforts.
That does seem like a nicer way of saying it
For a lot of people it’s difficult to understand that anyone would genuinely prefer not living in a house. The word homeless does not give the best connotations after all.
You can insist you’re fine, but men tend to do that anyway. The social worker might have grown up in bad conditions with a father insisting he’s fine and refusing to receive help, for all we know. There’s several reasons they could take it personally. And men who refuse to receive help when they need it can be frustrating to watch - chances are you’re wrongfully considered part of that category.
Could be. I have been known to do that.
I would suggest framing your position in a different way. Maybe start by acknowledging that others may not choose this lifestyle but that you do it willingly and explain why you prefer it. You’re coming across defensively in this thread and if you’re also coming across that way in your communications with social workers I can see why they might not believe that your lifestyle is a choice.
Could be. I’ll work on that. I tend to get a little annoyed when I’m offered unsolicited help I guess.
“Thank you for reaching out! I really appreciate the gesture. However I’m very happy to inform you that I’m living a carefully considered and crafted life that I truly enjoy, and wouldn’t change a thing about it. So just mark me down as a ‘Happy Nomad’ and we’re all set! Oh, no thank you. Please save your paperwork / handouts for someone that truly needs your help. Thank you again for stopping by…”
Acknowledged their time, update their records, refuse to waste paper, and show them the door with thank you.
Sounds good. I think I’m just going to not open my big fat mouth next time.
You’re not participating in the capitalist system. You need a mortgage and credit card debt.
Bingo
You do realize that social workers are at least attempting to make social programs work for people? Like, they are pushing socialism in a real, mostly positive way?
I’m really sorry that these people who just really want to help people are bothering you, but maybe just explain your situation kindly and have gratitude for the people they do help who suffer from capitalism?
So far off base here lmao
They are participating in the capitalist system, mortgage or not.
