I’ve been using all major OSes for a long time. I have the most experience with Windows, I’ve been using it since Windows 95 and stopped at Windows 8. I’ve been using macOS for about a decade and Linux (in total) for about 5 years. I have started with Mandrake, moved to Mandriva, spent over a year on Ubuntu and recently I’ve been using Fedora as my daily driver. And honestly, I’m running out of patience.
Few days ago I ran into the gpu driver issue. Long story short, Steam games started to crash on directx issue. Games that were working few weeks ago. I admit, I was mocking around with GPU drivers in order to make Podman containers to access the GPU. But I did the fresh diver install and it didn’t solved the issue (also my GPU was not found despite all commands showed it was there). I don’t have much spare time and I would like to play a game, I used to play before, without spending hours/days fixing issue that didn’t exist last time I played it.
But it’s not only about games. I have two laptops, both running Fedora 40 KDE spin. Some time ago on one laptop the power widget stopped working. It shows “no power profiles found on a device”. But when I delete the widget and add it again, it works fine.
Other issue is with the general look and feel. There are many apps that don’t follow the OS look - lack of window borders/shadow, random icons that don’t match the system, flatpacks having issues accessing system configuration (e.g. vscodium not recognising zsh as a default shell).
Few more problems I had:
- on GNOME, some extensions where crashing without any reason
- some apps don’t respect desktop scaling
- bluetooth randomly dropping connections
- syncing files between devices is always a struggle
- you never know what’s going to break when installing updates
If you want a Linux like experience use macOS, and if you want to play games, stick to Windows.
My kids, who began using Linux at home and then Chrome OS since the ages of 5 ,would suggest that it’s only older users who are completely stuck in their ways and can’t adapt to different operating systems.
So you’re a user that tinkers with your system, breaks it, can’t get it working correctly again…and that’s Linux’ fault?
And you consider yourself an example of a “regular user?”
I don’t really get the obsession a lot of people seem to have with trying to push Linux on people who are content with windows
It’s great for technical people who actually understand the reasons to use it but I really doubt switching to Linux even if it works perfectly and never breaks down (which it probably won’t) will it really be a net positive effect on the lives of non technical users.
To repeat the same thing everyone always says if all they’re using is a browser they could be using any OS, but at that point windows serves them perfectly well and doesn’t require the local nerd’s help when they want to edit an image or something
You were fucking with your GPU drivers, lost access to your GPU, and you have concluded from that that “regular users” (who don’t know what a driver is or does) should not use Linux?
As I said, I did a clean install and still all Steam games were failing on directx issue. Also, a “regular” user when switching to Linux will have to know what a GPU driver is in order to use it, event if it’s just for playing games. And the cherry on top - once I fixed the directx issue and I was able to play a game I wanted, the drivers update broke it. And despite spending days on fixing the issue, I got back to a square one.
If they use windows they also know what a GPU driver is, if they use AMD that’s better on linux, they don’t need to know what a GPU driver is. Unless of course the “normal” user need a rocm driver.
if they use AMD that’s better on linux, they don’t need to know what a GPU driver is.
Same goes for Intel, unless they need to use OneAPI.
He listed just a few more things then that
Did you mean computers are a bad choice for regular users?
Something something touch grass. Bugs exist in all OSs. If my data sold & being advertized + tracked by a US-based company’s closed-source OS is the alternative, then I am just turning off the computer & starting a farm.
Fucks around with GPU drivers for some reason
Experiences GPU driver issues
“How can Linux do this to me??”
My favorite implication of these kinds of posts is that windows somehow doesn’t ever have driver issues.
As I wrote, I did the clean install. Even if I didn’t do a thing with it, it would still break. As it did couple days ago.
Fyi messing around with drivers can even cause permanent hardware damage.
“clean driver install”, which heavily suggests you installed nvidia drivers, probably from the website. That issue is entirely on you.
Linux sucks, Windows is worse, MacOS is useless. We must conclude that those systems are not a good choice for regular users. I recommend a simple pocket calculator instead. No graphics drivers to worry about, no firmware updates, if it goes wrong you just press the reset button and it’s ready to go again in a tenth of a second, no need to do backups, you can get a pretty good one for $20, light weight, really good battery life. Much better in almost every way.
‘28008 3434’, can share memes on those things too, you just need to hold it upside down
sounds reasonable
You are not a regular user. My parents are regular users and they have been using Linux for years. They don’t know though. That’s a regular user.
I think Windows has a very poor track record for ui consistency as well. It feels like every Windows app wants to roll its own UI; Firefox, Discord, Steam etc. I know Discord and Steam also have those issues on Linux as well, but it feels like every Windows app wants to roll out it’s own window decorarions and theme.
Honestly, I’m pleased at how consistent most gtk based apps look.
Windows can’t even get their own UI right.
Look at the win10 control panel. Nearly a decade later and we still have to use the classic control panel to change settings.
If you want to edit macros in Excel, you’ll see a Vista window. Vista! In 2024!
started with Mandrake, moved to Mandriva, spent over a year on Ubuntu and recently I’ve been using Fedora
Another unpopular opinion:
That’s because you’ve been using distributions that are either behind the times or have a lot of wonky crap added to them that looks like user friendliness when it works and is like fixing windows when it doesn’t (I’ve been through similar path, just with a few other distros along the way)Start with Gentoo or Arch (maybe Slackware). These are close to the grass, so the way to set things up is the way to fix things up
some apps don’t respect desktop scaling
are these gtk based apps? Different toolsets require different envs
syncing
Have you tried syncthing?
Start with Gentoo or Arch (maybe Slackware). These are close to the grass, so the way to set things up is the way to fix things up
I’ve tried Mint, openSUSE, Debian, Gentoo and Arch but I had other, non-regular user issues with those. I wanted to point out the standard issues.
are these gtk based apps? Different toolsets require different envs
Some were GTK based other were “optimised” for KDE
Have you tried syncthing?
Yes, I use it on a daily basis but there’s no easy way to get it working on iOS/iPadOS.
I was mocking around with GPU drivers in order to make Podman containers to access the GPU. (…) I don’t have much spare time and I would like to play a game, I used to play before, without spending hours/days fixing issue that didn’t exist last time I played it.
And
I had other, non-regular user issues with those
I think, you should keep these two things (messing with containers accessing GPU and “just play a game”) separate. I mean on separate boxes. Because now you can’t “just play” because you’ve been elbows deep in OS internals. You can’t take apart your fridge and then expect it to just cool the water the next day
“optimised” for KDE
Then I’m guessing these might need some KDE envs
Yes, I use it on a daily basis but there’s no easy way to get it working on iOS/iPadOS.
Ah, you’re trying to breach the non-open wall. Is there an app on i* that allows you to set up an ftp/http file sharing server on the device? You probably could set it up as rclone upstream
I think, you should keep these two things (messing with containers accessing GPU and “just play a game”) separate. I mean on separate boxes. Because now you can’t “just play” because you’ve been elbows deep in OS internals. You can’t take apart your fridge and then expect it to just cool the water the next day
I agree, that’s a valid point. But, I had a clean system, prepared for a normal user (clean install, official repositories, etc. And still GPU drivers refusded to work. I have covered all basics before I asked for help and even I got some good advice that worked, I ended up in the same place.
Then I’m guessing these might need some KDE envs
True, but sill for a regular user it looks like “Linux is ugly”
Ah, you’re trying to breach the non-open wall. Is there an app on i* that allows you to set up an ftp/http file sharing server on the device? You probably could set it up as rclone upstream
I know too well the unbreakable apple garden. And I don’t mind tinkering with it but again, we are at the regular user level, that wants things just to work.
Start with Gentoo or Arch
I wouldn’t recommend arch to general users. I consider myself a general linux user, and figuring out Arch, even after the installation hurdle, wasn’t easy for me.
is like fixing windows when it doesn’t
I don’t think Arch really makes that easy. Although, I guess archwiki is pretty great. Even arch forum helped me a lot with respect to other disto.
A Macbook Pro 2016 user here (MacOS and EndeavourOS dual boot)
KDE: some menu options freeze, can’t change keyboard layout
Me: slow transition towards i3wm, write some basic scripts to get what I want working
it took it like 7 months to finally have issue: dbus timeouts when launching some applications
Reinstalled and it works. Well has some issues, like audio and wifi take effort to get working.
Also I find Flatpaks a headache to work with. Easy to set up, but I would consider it rather messy.
I still kinda use MacOS. Would I recommend? Yes, but under specific circumstances. You may need to buy some software. I can get what I want with Homebrew (unless you
--no-quarantineit verifies the apps after each update). Is kinda plug and play system when going from Apple to Apple, but in terms of customizability and functionality Linux is superior. Also newer MacOS is awful when it comes to storage. I don’t even know how it is possible for it to take so much space with it magical bits I don’t need neither want and can’t delete. Also get your wallet ready, since older Apple products lose support and you can’t simply upgrade your OS (technically can with some effort), so you can buy a new Mac. And I can tell you that it sometimes gets annoying when you can’t install things just because OS version. MacOS is not meant for much gaming neither for people that want to use it for development, it is possible, but harder thanks to its dir structure. Also it is harder to make MacOS builds and get proper scaling on retina displays (some apps get blurry). Also Mojave is the last OS version to support 32 bit (rip gaming). No Steam Proton. And you can’t just disable external monitors unless you unplug them (great for my modular setup with more than one machine and one monitor), which I find really inconvenient. The monitor is multi input but my notebook is stil outputting to that damn display and prefers it for launching applications on there. Meaning I can’t work on it without either this pain or disconnecting it with one utility I found that has an issue on github that you can’t reconnect the monitor unless you reboot. Also why can’t I set a 60Hz monitor to 60Hz and 30Hz is the maximum? (can do on Linux with no issue)And did I mention I tried to run Krita on my MBP and it sounds like a jet? Yea, performance is sometimes great on weaker MacOS devices
So yes, go buy that awersone Apple computer, but don’t expect it to work flawlessly. There’s plenty of little details that in the end mess up your day and user experience.
I mean, if you have money for the newest Msomething macs then sure buy one, but if you want to buy older, look for those that can run Linux with decent hardware support, or you’ll regret your purchase.
While some of this can be a problem, I feel like using podman automatically disqualifies you as a regular user.
I think the more accurate title is “Linux is harder for medium power users who are already used to an operating system.”
I honestly feel I am unqualified to say how easy Linux distros are, as I often think to do things that a normal user wouldn’t, thus breaking my system in a way that doesn’t mirror what a regular user would experience.
You must be LTT’s chaperone
Thanks for reminding me, there’s also " supporting" linux community…
GPU doesn’t work after being reconfigured
On GNOME extensions crash
“I made modifications to my system and broke it”
Syncing files between devices is always a struggle
Syncthing?
Never know what will break when updating
Read your updates before you do them?
Bluetooth and scaling are not issues I’ve ever run in to, but I can’t say they’re not common.
Basically, this whole post reads as “I messed with things that I didn’t properly understand and I’m blaming my computer for doing what I told it instead of what I wanted”
Why you say “Linux” when you mean “Fedora”?
