The amount of bullshit there is to make things work is… not that bad. When it comes to games, I just can’t. Having to reboot just to fix common FPS issues is too much. I’ve had a bunch of things that require a config change, which then has caused other issues.
The state of Linux Desktop is the best it has ever been and I’ll be back the moment Wayland works better. I love Linux, but for now, it’s not working out for me… Just needed to vent, thanks for reading.
I recognize I’m kind of being one of those “it works on my machine!” types, but I’m rolling pop!os on a lenovo built intel/nvidia laptop and have zero issues. Am I just exceptionally lucky?
I roll popos and tried nobara and mint a month ago. I’m back on pop because it just works and installing games on it is no issue. There are a couple games that after playing a few hours a day for three or four days, the computer kind of freezes for a second here and there. I just log out and in and it’s fixed. I would rather throw my computer in the street and run it over than go back to windows.
Which Lenovo laptop, if you don’t mind me asking? I know there are Lenovo laptops with Linux support, but I am on a Lenovo Legion Slim 5, and I have heard there are quite a few issues that would need to be sorted.
I’ve got the legion y540 with an RTX 2060, apparently they made this same model number with a couple different gpu‘s.
I have no idea if it officially has linux support or not, I just got frustrated when it wouldn’t stop bluescreen’ing with windows 10. Ubuntu worked fine but was finnacky with peripherals, and I couldn’t change the brightness without fixes. Pop!OS has just worked perfectly across the board, straight out of the box.
What’s whacky is I could swear games run better on linux. Not even natively, like WINDOWS games run better through proton than they did when the same system ran windows. I’d bet a lot of it is just overhead from general bloat; windows is expensive to run these days.
If my experience is anything to go by, just start installing whatever OS strikes your fancy and hope for the best. Keep a windows usb handy just in case, but just start fucken around! You could spend a week reading documentation on ONE SINGLE OS, or you could spend just an afternoon trying probably every single OS you could find a modern ISO for. Just make sure you try the popular ones first hahaha
You’re not. I think that’s the experience of most Linux users. It’s selection bias; I don’t go to forums to make a post advertising how my system is working great with no bugs. When my system is working great with no bugs I just use it; I don’t talk about it.
So you’re gaming on Wayland, which is a bad idea, but instead of just using X11 you’re heading back to Windows?
I mean, you do you, but it kinda seems like you’re throwing the baby out with the bathwater here…
It’s all good. Use what makes you happy.
Hannah Montana Linux it is!
Sorry to hear that you had a bad experience with your distro. It can happen, not all hardware behaves equally well on Linux and differences between distros are huge. Some even don’t run the latest kernel.
Out of curiosity, did you try Fedora, Ubuntu, KDE Neon, Kubuntu or Linux Mint? These are in my opinion great general public distros that are very stable. Ubuntu and Mint notably is lacking in Wayland support but KDE Neon and Fedora are very good at it.
Also, did you try running the desktop with X11 instead of Wayland?
I’d also recommend having another drive with the Linux distro so you can jump back and forth easier and test out new distros without having your computer potentially unusable.
Wayland is getting better every day. Check back in a year, and it’ll probably be ready for you. :)
That’s what everyone said about Linux in 2005
lol even in 2005 Linux was excellent for most situations. Problem was in a business environment it was usually harder to find someone who has the expertise in Linux but also gaming - the lowest-common-denominator sector of development - usually just prioritizes Windows. This is NOT because it’s “better,” but because it gives them more freedom and they can get shit “done” faster. On the user-side, meanwhile, Windows wasn’t really doing the user any more favors than just working pretty nicely.
But today? Omfg Linux has come insanely far while Windows is what, pretty much you handing over master control to M$ while borrowing some CPU time on your own computer so gracious of them.
Oh but if it lets you play a game then all is forgiven. Lol. Priorities.
I switched in 2008, so not that far off.
Even back in the late ‘90s I was experimenting both personally and professionally with alternative OSes. By early to mid 2000s I had some systems off the big money players and as of today I have 20 or so systems on Linux and ONE left with primary Windows only because I hardly use it as a desktop and it’s mostly providing services internally. So don’t fix what ain’t broken. Even then I’m planning to test a dual boot soon just to whet the computer’s appetite. And when it lets me know it’s ready, I’ll be 100% Microshaft free instead of 99%. Those sleazebags dug their own graves and they know it.
I was one of those people, still stand by it. Linux was already better than the alternatives in 2005, and had only gotten better since.
it’s Wayland, multiply any number times 10 at least. I’ve been waiting 2 years so far for them to decide on the word “must” vs “may” in a part of the protocol
I just tried to make the switch and sadly went back also. I tried Nobara, PopOS and Mint and while I had little to no issues with gaming, other issues caused me to return. I have Lian Li V2 fans and they won’t work without their Windows or Mac software. If the PC is shut down, they spin at their lowest speed and disappear in my BIOS. Lian Li is more to blame here but I don’t want to replace 3 fans that work fine. I had tons of really weird sleep issues on all 3 distros too. Usually after a fresh reboot, it would sleep as expected but after that, it either wouldn’t sleep at all or immediately wake up. I use WOL to turn the PC on when I want to game in the basement so while a minor gripe, this coupled with my fan issues was so frustrating. I also resisted Linux for a while due to no or little HDR support, but missed it less than I thought I would and I know it’s coming very soon. Loved how lightweight the OS was and miss the simplicity. I shall try again someday…
Most of us had a moment like this I think. Sometimes it lasts months, sometimes it lasts forever.
Linux was never and will never be there for crowds which just want their “computer to work” on each and every usage scenario.
Bugs on Linux is far easier to debug than bugs on Windows imo
Neither is windows
So according to your definition: why OS makes your “computer just work” ?
My OS makes my computer just work. I’m on KDE Neon which is “unstable” but in my case just works. Ubuntu just works. Fedora just works. Mint just works. Debian just works. Windows just works. For every use case? No.
Windows is just another OS. It’s a good one, but not for every use case.
80% of people in the world would disagree with you. If you ask them which OS just works they will answer Windows, esp. if they have a bit of experience in dealing with Linux or tried it out for a brief time.
80% of people have never tried Linux and I’m pretty sure 80% of people only use computers for browsers, email and basic word processing. For those use cases almost every Linux just works. Meanwhile Windows is dropping support for old hardware so it’ll just stop working.
I mean, sure, if you buy a computer with Windows on it it’ll most likely just work for most of it’s lifespan but if you buy a Tuxedo laptop it’s pretty much supported for life.
In my opinion the UX and customization in windows is complete garbage so it very much doesn’t just work for me.
I’ll be back the moment Wayland works better.
You mentioned in a comment that you used Arch, Debian and EndeavourOS. Though, historically, Wayland has been adopted first on Fedora. Therefore, I wonder if underutilizing Fedora (and/or derivatives like Bazzite/Nobara) might have been the main culprit in this case.
Let’s use bazzite.
I just need this one package.
Wait, it’s all read-only? Always has been.
What’s preventing you to install that single package through
rpm-ostree?It’s a steering wheel driver. And virtualbox.
It’s a steering wheel driver.
Could you perhaps be more precise? Is it a specific one? Or are there a multitude of steering wheel drivers that satisfy your needs?
And virtualbox.
Do you specifically need VirtualBox? Or would Qemu/KVM satisfy your needs?
IIRC VirtualBox requires kernel mods. Therefore, you would have to create your own images 😅 in which said kernel mod is included. FWIW, both uBlue’s templates and BlueBuild do a wonderful job at streamlining this process.
Or…, as alluded before, you don’t necessarily need VirtualBox. But, instead, Qemu/KVM perfectly satisfy your needs. Then, you can just run
ujust setup-virtualization. After which you reboot, and you would be good to go.Im describing a use case of my friend whom I convinced to use linux instead of windows for gaming. His steering wheel is on this list: https://github.com/ublue-os/bazzite/issues/901
While not being tech illiterate he wasn’t thrilled to build his own fork of the OS and I don’t blame him. He also wanted to use virtualbox, and I won’t force him to switch to qemu or kvm because Im not a gnome developer to invalidate someones use cases. He settled for endeavor os and is very happy with it.
IMO immutable distros aren’t a best fit for a desktop computer. It can do so much more than gaming and turning it into a dedicated console is a step back if a normal linux distro can do just as well.
Well, Linux is like a juggernaut that’s inching ever closer in all sorts of areas (while already dominating in some areas). The time frame where it makes sense for Microsoft to spend increasing amounts of resources to maintain and further develop Windows is closing, and if you look closely, they’ve pretty much shown that Windows is not at all priority #1 anymore since at least Nadella became CEO. We also live in a world which is increasingly becoming OS agnostic, which is bad for Windows’ dominance and great for Linux, MacOS, and others (because there’s less and less relevant applications specifically requiring Windows). Of course, Linux on the desktop also grows stronger and more mature year after year, which further accelerates the change.
There will also be some points in time which hugely accelerate things, like Valve going all-in on Steam Deck and Proton and to make Steam a more independent store/community platform, and also Microsoft making Windows worse and more user-hostile over time. From a business perspective, it makes sense for MS - they want to go full cloud (= full control), almost full removal of control for the user, and full ingestion of as much data from the user as they can - to sell it, utilize it for own purposes, and train AIs with it. It’s what increases profits in the short-term. A lot of companies are doing that kind of stuff. MS is just one of the more ruthless ones, which, again, makes sense, because they still have a big userbase to exploit. In the long-term, they’re damaging, no, DESTROYING Windows’ reputation as a half-decent OS (even among Windows fans) and driving more and more users to the alternatives. It’s kind of inevitable. MS’ striving for profit has doomed Windows, and soon, when no single company will be able to compete with the ever evolving Linux ecosystem anymore, Windows is also doomed. It’s kind of a law of nature now. It’s not a question of if, just when.
(I’ve used both Windows and Linux extensively, Windows since MSDOS/Win3.x, Linux since 1998. About 10 years ago, I’ve switched exclusively to Linux and banned Windows into a VM only that gets booted less and less [I think it’s been off for 2 years already]). I, for one, welcome our new old Linux overlords.
I get it, and have switched back and forth myself a few times over the years…
I’m a Linux sysadmin who is also a PC gamer.
I run Windows for my main desktop as a gamer. Greatest choice, best compatibility, it’s the primary focus for game developers, etc. I use debian on my laptops and home servers as I don’t game on those and otherwise Linux is better in most other areas.
At least for me, it doesn’t matter a huge amount what OS I use as a desktop provided it’s stable and not annoying. Sometimes lilnux is annoying because of compatibility or bugs or specific software isn’t available or work poorly, sometimes Windows is annoying because of monitoring, design choices that favour Microsoft instead of the user, changes - often hidden - to existing practices, or any of the thousand little annoyances. Neither is painless 100% of the time but they’re not really so different from a day to day driver if the software you need works well on both, which for many people is basically just a web browser.
I applaud those who game under Linux, you’re doing great stuff and opening the doors for everyone in the future.
While I’m far from being a sysadmin I’m in the same boat. Main study laptop is Linux but I just end up using Windows on my gaming PC for the same reasons.
Check out massgrave dot dev, they have W11 IoT LTSC and activators. It’s the best version of Windows! No more dealing with AI bullshit being added, nor advertisements.
Okay.
My personal experience has been that Linux is great for general use, and quite a few verified games. But anything multiplayer with anticheat, games that are regularly updated, etc, it’s a constant struggle. So I have a separate hard drive for windows on my gaming desktop and, in general, mostly use Windows on that machine (with a lot of tweaks like openshell). But all my other devices I run off Linux and it works out fine.
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I’m sure there are games that run flawlessly, which is why I added the qualifier “In my personal experience”. Despite trying different versions of Proton and launch options, I’ve had trouble getting a consistent quality of gameplay experience with Guild Wars 2, where after long periods of play the frames drop or the game freezes altogether. Same with competitive games like Overwatch 2. It will run fine for long periods of time, but once in a blue moon it will crash altogether. Obviously not ideal for doing fractals with a guild or grinding ranked where getting disconnected lets my teammates or friends down and negatively affects my ranking process or even catching a temporary cooldown to be able to queue up again
It’s funny because I’ve seen a lot of complaints about freezes and lag spikes in Elden Ring, but I’ve never noticed these because they’re apparently not an issue in Linux.
I think it will be a long time of ever I will remove my windows boot. I love gaming on Linux but until games “support” Linux it won’t be my only boot device.
Dedicated gaming machine or dual boot is a way to go.
I played steam on Arch and one update of OS and game stops working.
Despite claims, Windows gets better outcomes. I played a lot of World of Tanks Blitz and the same hardware on Linux was significantly lower graphics quality and FPS compared to Windows.
I’ve been 100% linux for my daily home computing for over a year now… With one exception… To be honest I didn’t even try particularly hard to make gaming work under Linux.
Instead I have a Windows VM - setup with full passthrough access to my GPU and it’s own NVME - just for Windows gaming. To my mind now it’s in the same category as running console emulation.
As soon as I click shutdown in windows, it pops me straight back into my Linux desktop.
Do you have a dual gpu setup for this or is there a virtualization feature I don’t know about yet
Search for “vfio single gpu”, It’s possible, but it has drawbacks. Iirc you have to run everything as root or something like that.
Another recommended way is to run a headless linux as host, and passthrough the gpu to a linux guest next to a windows guest, than you just switch between the guests
Single GPU with scripts that run before and after the VM is active to unload the GPU driver modules from the kernel.
I think this was my starting point and I had to do just a few small tweaks to get it right for my setup - i.e. unload and reload the precise set of kernel modules that block GPU passthrough on my machine.
https://gitlab.com/Karuri/vfio
At this point from a user experience p.o.v it’s not much different to dual booting, just with a different boot sequence. The main advantage though is that I can have the Windows OS on a small virtual harddrive for ease of backup/clone/restore and have game installs on a dedicated NVME that doesn’t need backing up
Fucking Hackerman. Is there a way to display the VM’s output in a window/fullscreen on Linux today? The last time I tried this, I had to have a separate cable from the passed-thru (secondary) GPU to another input in my monitor.
Looking-glass.io is what most use for that
I do something similar but instead if a VM I just have windows installed on a separate hard drive and just boot up from there when I need it (I don’t play games though)
What’re you using for visualisation? I didn’t realise you could get decent graphics performance with VirtualBox.
They didn’t say virtualbox, KVM is built into Linux.
Direct passthrough of the GPU means it is no longer available to the host OS but works as if directly connected to the VM.
Interesting. I had no idea such capabilities were available out of the box. Thanks!
People have been passing though GPUs to their windows vm for almost a decade.
Long past time for Linux to be set aside. Shit on windows too. We desperately need a return to early DOS and CP/M days. With the TRS-80 OS ecosystem, OSes were simple and command line, and any hacking was extremely easy and fast to detect. The power of the command line let you wipe out any hackers super super fast. Enough of this Windows GUI and hiding things from users shit. GUI is only for losers. Return the power to the devs.
Wow! Lol I hope this was satire because as satire it’s actually kinda funny. If serious… whoa! Check that foil hat.
I meant to do this when I built my old system back in 2018, but I found the handful of games I regularly play worked okay on Linux so I never got around to it, and Linux game compatibility has improved leaps and bounds from there.
If it’s a Steam game, for most of them these days you only have to tick a box in Steam’s settings to tell it to use Proton for all games and the game will just work when you click play.
You might give it a try. Or don’t, I’m not your mother.
