If it gets to the point where we have to pay a monthly fee to use computer peripherals I’m going to dedicate all my spare time to making open source alternatives. Become ungovernable.
There’s already plenty of open source alternatives. Mouse drivers are relatively simple.
Yeah, maybe work on making their switches not start double-clicking after a couple of years first.
I’m on my third-or-fourth one that has done this to me. Once this one gets too bad (they inevitably do) I am through with them. It’s a shame because I really do like their peripherals. The mouse that convinced to keep buying them was an excellent device that lasted a very long time and I only replaced because it was a dinosaur. I used their solar powered keyboard for a decade-and-a-half, too, until I accidentally dropped something on it and broke it. Now, the switches in their mice die on me after a year or two without fail. They’ve clearly cheaped out on components. Fuck em. Goodbye Logitech. I will not miss their software.
The annoying thing is that fixing the double click is stupidly easy. Years ago, I got frustrated with that exact problem (after a string of 3 mice that each lasted only a few months); so I opened one up and soldered on a random capacitor I had lieing around.
Capacitors like that cost literally less than a penny, and are no more complicated to install at production time than any other component already on the circuit board.
I didn’t know it was a capacitor. I thought it was bent springs. I managed to fix one once by opening up the switches and bending the springs back, but it went back to double clicking within a month, and the process was not easy. I’ve got huge hands, and those switches are tiny.
The actual difference between a working new mouse and a failing double click mouse is in the button itself (mechanical parts are almost always the problem).
However, it is not some exotic failure mode. All mechanical switches have a “bounce”, where the contact makes and breaks a few times before settling into the connected position. Switches are typically designed to make the actual contact spring loaded (which is the origin of the click sound you here). As they age, this mechanism degrades, making the bouncing problem worse.
However, this is a well understood problem that any electrical engineer should be familiar with. One solution is to install a filter capacitor. Now it takes longer to switch between the on and off state, so the inherent bounce in the switch is smoothed out to the point where you cannot detect it.
They probably did testing with a new switch, and decided that they didn’t need to include any explicit debounce component, ignoring the fact that the switch would degrade over its lifetime.
I just wish I could find another mouse with the same form factor as the G602/604. That button layout on the side is so nice. I go looking for an alternative every now and then but nothing I’ve found matches it so I’m stuck. I’m on my third 602 and fortunately it seems to be the charm because I’ve had this one for several years and it’s still going strong but it’s certainly annoying that I had to RMA 2 of them to get a lasting one. I also had to do the same with 2 of their headsets. They didn’t even have me send the mouse back last time so I have a second one with a double click problem laying around here somewhere I might see about swapping the switch out one of these days. and yea, the software does suck.
604
That’s the one I’m using now. I like the buttons, too. I also find I only really use them in some pretty niche cases, so I can probably do without.
On my 602 I have them set for switching browser tabs, forward, back, copy, paste, right click>save as, and shift. Those get a lot of use. Then I have specific profiles for some games/apps I use. I would miss that a lot if I had to switch.
Oooh, some of those sound like a really good idea. I’m only using mine for forward and back in browser, but next tab sounds good. Copy and paste, too.
the switches are pretty straightforward to swap out, fwiw. fairly large and reasonably spaced pins to solder compared to any other mouse hardware. tbh the disassembly and reassembly of my g604 to get to them was more effort than replacing the switches themselves.
I went down a rabbit hole when my mouse started double clicking wanting to know why, especially compared to older mice that seem to last forever. turns out the switches themselves technically haven’t changed or even dropped in quality much over the years, they’ve always used the same shit-tier switches. many modern mice use too low of a voltage and operate out of spec, and the otherwise good enough switches don’t hold up. here’s an hour+ long youtube video about it if you want all the details.
it’s bullshit that it’s necessary, but if you’re willing to solder in new switches you can get better quality ones that will outlast the rest of the mouse for ~$5-10.
willing to solder in new switches you can get better quality ones that will outlast the rest of the mouse for ~$5-10.
That might be worth it. I’ll have to see if I can find those switches.
most logitech mice use the same switches, any Japanese Omron switches will work (avoid the Chinese Omrons). here’s an amazon link to a 2-pack. there’s also a bunch of other switch types nearly as varied as keyboard switches, these are what I put in my mouse, but if you’re just looking to stop the double-clicking the Japanese Omrons are the way to go.
Oooh. I’m sure I can find those in Korea. Thanks!
“Forever subscription mouse”
I have mice that I bought 35 years ago that still work. I had to replace the buttons on one I got 20yrs ago, but it’s a daily driver and the switches are hella cheap and like a 5min solder job. Make them socketed and it’s now a forever mouse. Done.
I didn’t see Sonos being dropped from my list of companies to buy products from in 2024, is Logitech joining that list this year too?
On the right track it seems!
Really, I’m not against this model if it were simply a low monthly fee to rent hardware and have it perpetually fixed and maintained. For a mouse I couldn’t imagine more than $1-2. I would feel good paying that knowing that the mouse wouldn’t go onto the trash heap when it stopped working well.
But of course that’s not what they are thinking. They are thinking you still pay an exorbitant up front cost, plus you pay an exorbitant subscription on top of that.
it would need to be a damn low monthly fee, I paid like 20$ for my razer deathaddr on sale(I know not Logitech), and it’s going on year 7 or 8 with daily use no issues, I expect I’ll have to replace it soon but, in my eyes even 1-2$ monthly is too expensive for a mouse and only would really be good if you tend to go through a mouse a year. but any of the more expensive mice will outlast what you’re paying on a sub
ofc that’s assuming it’s not like you stated in your last line
plus if it ever breaks they’re 100% just swapping a new one in and deleting the old one, it’s not cost effective to repair a fucking mouse lmao.
Yes the idea of fixing is less compelling for a mouse than other technologies. But I would still feel better if I knew they did fix just the part that was broken rather than chucking the whole thing out.
i can see the appeal, but it’s also a mouse, so i would rather it just not be built like shit from the get go, but that’s me.
That or be built and designed to be repairable, that way i can fix it, or someone near me could fix it for me, something like that is also acceptable. I’d be curious whether the shipping and man hours prior to and post to fixing the mouse would actually incur more cost and waste than just, deleting it from existence.
In other words: They want me to never buy a Logitech product ever again. Fuck you greedy corporate shitpiles!
corporate brain rot
Even assuming that I wasn’t put off by having a subscription for a physical object, how could it possibly be financially viable for me to do that.
It would be cheaper for me to simply buy a new mouse every 4 or 5 years, and realistically I don’t replace my mice that often. It’s a mouse they don’t really get to be that expensive even if you go for all the optional bells and whistles.
Yeah that’s the point at the price point they have in mind it’s definitely not viable
No thank you, and get fucked.
This is so absurd. The only updates peripherals need are firmware bug fixes. And it’s a standard that these updates are free. Having subscriptions for hardware is kinda dystopic tbh
From the podcast:
Some only have a mouse or only a keyboard, but many of them have both. But the thing that shocked me was that the average spend on that globally is $26, which is really so low. This is stuff you use every day, that sits on your desk every day, that you look at every day. That’s like the price of four coffees at Starbucks or less than a Nike running shirt. There is so much room to create more value in that space as we make people more productive — to extend human potential.
You know why on average people spend so little? Because a mouse is just a mouse. It doesn’t need to do anything besides controlling the cursor. It doesn’t need a “dedicated AI button that launches Logi AI Prompt Builder” (which is just a ChatGPT wrapper btw)
I don’t want to be that one person that just complains about capitalism under every post, but things like this make it hard. We have already perfected the design of a mouse. But every year publicly traded companies need to make more money than in the previous year, so let’s add subscriptions. And also AI, because investors love it
But the thing that shocked me was that the average spend on that globally is $26, which is really so low.
Yeah because it’s a mouse. What extra features is it going to have if I paid $100.
I agree. We collectively overconsume, where are the manufacturers with pride in building quality devices that just work?
I’m a hardware engineer, I’d be embarrassed to release some of the shit I’ve seen onto the market for public consumption.
The rules are simple: solid state where you can, robust enclosures that can withstand common cleaners & IV exposure, geometry that makes it difficult for those cleaning fluids to get into the electronics. That’s it, you’ve got most people covered with a reliable device to interact with daily. Pinch pennies on the RGB LEDs, not the housing!
Having subscriptions for hardware
actually how i understand that model, the subscription would not be for the “hardware” (which you would still have to ‘buy’ and pay for all of its repairs by yourself) but only for the software which would actually block you from using your own hardware if you stop paying the then-later-by-them-to-be-definded-price for the ‘licence’ to use that software, rendering the hardware a useless piece of junkscrap whenever and as long as they whish or their cloud runs on MShitsoft or is maybe ClownStricken, MacAfff’ed, CEO’ed, CTO’ed, Shareholder’ed or such).
That f*up-idea is afaik explicitly NOT a renting model for hardware where they’ld had to make sure that it actually works before you have to pay the rent, but only a licensing software for that only software that is vendor-locked-in on that vendor-poisoned hardware.
As i know myself, i guess i’ll discontinue to buy or suggest any of their stuff for a few decades from now, for that “idea” only.
Have a nice® day without logitech!
What can I say? I see “Capitalism bad” and I upvote.
Yeah, apparently the subscription for the mouse would be on top of the upfront cost. I’m honestly baffled that Logitech’s CEO thinks anyone would buy it, this feels like an april fools joke
Wait so the subscription literally doesn’t cover anything it’s just the money I pay to Logitech for no reason?
I have an idea for Logitech: Go fuck yourselves
Lol I actually had to check to make sure this wasn’t published on April 1st. Missed joke opportunity, this is hilarious
Oh man I was hoping this would be a sub for alternatives to subscriptions, rather than just pointing out that everything is going to a subscription model.
It’s not against the rules of that community to post alternatives. I suspect the community members would love that.
Alternative to subscription based mouse…any other fucking mouse. Hell, I’d rather use that piece of crap they sell at walgreens for $15.99. It looks like crap, has only 2 buttons, is wired, but it doesn’t have a damn subscription.
are mice not supposed to have only 2 buttons??? (excluding scroll wheel)
My Halo account name is fuckmandatorysignins@personalDomain.com
Fuck you Microsoft, fuck you Logitech, if the Internet goes down, I’m fucked…
I always give “companyname@personaldomain.com”
That way datasets are harder to correlate and I know who leaked 😝
That’s what I’ve been doing since 2002. If I get spam, I set up a forward to their customer service.
Lol! I need to start doing something like this when one of those email addresses eventually ends up in a breach. :D
Be wary though, it might get your domain blacklisted for spam. I’ve been lucky so far.
Oh neat, I think I might subscribe to that community.
Wait a goddamned minute
