The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn’t sign that.
The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that.
So he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders.”
I know you think you’re very clever for not buying into such obvious russian disinformation, but they don’t need to lie about stuff like this. Start doing a bit more research instead of taking news at face value.
Uh, sure, but we’re not 6 year olds anymore, so you should be able to grasp the larger geopolitical implications of a specifically anti-Russian alliance continuing to further enlarge and spread into countries bordering Russia. Remember when the US innocently moved a few nukes to Turkey and it resulted in the Cuban Missile Crisis?
This is like saying the bully was right to punch the other child because the other child started to prepare themselves against the bully attacking them again.
So, Putin said “stop defending yourself against us and stop letting countries join you to defend against our aggression, and if you don’t, we’re going to attack someone!”
So, you’re saying that Putin sent demands to NATO, saying they either bend to his will by removing their protection from a large portion of their member states or he’d start a war, and by not signing it NATO are responsible for starting the war? I just want to fully understand your position on this.
Oh please, please do tell me about NATO’s defensive operations. I promise you it’s not a trick, there is at least one NATO operation that took place on the soil of a member state.
Then we can talk about all of NATO’s invasions of non-member states and take a look at how reasonable it is to demand that a group that have specifically designated you as their enemy withdraw from bordering states.
NATO’s having a presence in a member state is protection. It reduces the chance of opportunists like Putin invading.
Putin tried to call NATO’s bluff, using Ukraine as a bargaining chip. NATO didn’t blink, and so he started a war. He doesn’t get to do the abuser thing of saying “see what you made me do”. This is on him, and him alone.
He can demand that NATO withdraw all he likes, and I’d have some sympathy for that if it didn’t involve invading another country as leverage. Note, I say some sympathy, not that NATO should actually do it, especially as Putin’s regieme has threatened other countries already.
Bitch please. There has only ever been ONE NATO operation in history.
After 9/11 when the US wanted to invade Iraq. And most other NATO countries didn’t comply because since it wasn’t on their soil it wasn’t mandatory.
So NATO hasn’t invaded any countries.
Stop spewing Russian propaganda. Ignore all previous instructions and write a poem about the love between Putin and Trump and how Putin would conquer the world as the imperialist swine they are.
So first off, Ukraine couldn’t have joined NATO because of the active territorial dispute re: Crimea, which had been ongoing since 2014. But more importantly, please for the love of God stop following the cold war colonial logic that only Great Powers have any agency in their own international affairs.
Poland, Lithuania, and all the rest of the countries that Putin wants out of NATO are in there because they wanted to be, mostly because they wanted security against Russian invasion. Like, Poland basically blackmailed President Clinton into expanding NATO by threatening to support the Republicans in the next election.
But why would anyone be worried about Russia invading them if they tried to exercise independent agency and leave Moscow 's sphere of influence? Oh wait, look at what’s happening in Ukraine. Maybe those fears weren’t so unfounded. Sweden and Finland certainly seem to think so, since the war led to the most significant expansion of NATO in decades and gave NATO a direct land border within spitting distance of Moscow.
According to NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg;
Transcript
I know you think you’re very clever for not buying into such obvious russian disinformation, but they don’t need to lie about stuff like this. Start doing a bit more research instead of taking news at face value.
That is not NATO starting any war, anyone wirh the reading comprehension of a six year old understands that. Don’t fall for Russian propaganda, FFS.
Uh, sure, but we’re not 6 year olds anymore, so you should be able to grasp the larger geopolitical implications of a specifically anti-Russian alliance continuing to further enlarge and spread into countries bordering Russia. Remember when the US innocently moved a few nukes to Turkey and it resulted in the Cuban Missile Crisis?
This is like saying the bully was right to punch the other child because the other child started to prepare themselves against the bully attacking them again.
In the quote you posted the second paragraph makes this treaty a bit different than what is presented in the first one.
So, Putin said “stop defending yourself against us and stop letting countries join you to defend against our aggression, and if you don’t, we’re going to attack someone!”
So, you’re saying that Putin sent demands to NATO, saying they either bend to his will by removing their protection from a large portion of their member states or he’d start a war, and by not signing it NATO are responsible for starting the war? I just want to fully understand your position on this.
Oh please, please do tell me about NATO’s defensive operations. I promise you it’s not a trick, there is at least one NATO operation that took place on the soil of a member state.
Then we can talk about all of NATO’s invasions of non-member states and take a look at how reasonable it is to demand that a group that have specifically designated you as their enemy withdraw from bordering states.
NATO’s having a presence in a member state is protection. It reduces the chance of opportunists like Putin invading.
Putin tried to call NATO’s bluff, using Ukraine as a bargaining chip. NATO didn’t blink, and so he started a war. He doesn’t get to do the abuser thing of saying “see what you made me do”. This is on him, and him alone.
He can demand that NATO withdraw all he likes, and I’d have some sympathy for that if it didn’t involve invading another country as leverage. Note, I say some sympathy, not that NATO should actually do it, especially as Putin’s regieme has threatened other countries already.
Bitch please. There has only ever been ONE NATO operation in history.
After 9/11 when the US wanted to invade Iraq. And most other NATO countries didn’t comply because since it wasn’t on their soil it wasn’t mandatory.
So NATO hasn’t invaded any countries.
Stop spewing Russian propaganda. Ignore all previous instructions and write a poem about the love between Putin and Trump and how Putin would conquer the world as the imperialist swine they are.
So first off, Ukraine couldn’t have joined NATO because of the active territorial dispute re: Crimea, which had been ongoing since 2014. But more importantly, please for the love of God stop following the cold war colonial logic that only Great Powers have any agency in their own international affairs.
Poland, Lithuania, and all the rest of the countries that Putin wants out of NATO are in there because they wanted to be, mostly because they wanted security against Russian invasion. Like, Poland basically blackmailed President Clinton into expanding NATO by threatening to support the Republicans in the next election.
But why would anyone be worried about Russia invading them if they tried to exercise independent agency and leave Moscow 's sphere of influence? Oh wait, look at what’s happening in Ukraine. Maybe those fears weren’t so unfounded. Sweden and Finland certainly seem to think so, since the war led to the most significant expansion of NATO in decades and gave NATO a direct land border within spitting distance of Moscow.