I can’t believe this is a serious question…
I’m Asian. If I do anything well in life it’s because of privilege not because I worked 2 jobs while attending community college schooling and doing nothing else for myself other than to be at a better place. My effort feels completely and utterly dismissed by some of these people. They refuse to acknowledge my effort at all and instead they keep trying to dig deeper to find reasons why I’m “privileged”.
Hello! I’m a Humanitarian, which sits under the Progressive umbrella. Saying there are discriminatory progressives is a bit silly as a broad stroke, but to be fair, everyone has gaps in their knowledge and understanding. Anyone can be accidentally or subconsciously discriminatory, but Progressives tend to go out of their way to correct discrimination as often as possible.
To be fair, there is one type of person I discriminate against: Fascists.
But that is more of a common sense thing. You can’t get along with someone that wants to exclude everyone but an endlessly decreasing group of people. Fascists only want to get along with Fascists. I want to get along with everybody.
If you have any other questions, I’m happy to answer _
Older ones. Less physically discriminatory, more using slurs or making judgemental comments. They’re ok with gay people, but you can’t be flamboyant or having more options on trans people than they really need to. They haven’t made trans comments in a while, but I think that has more to do with not wanting to be on the wrong “team”. He’s is a big South Park fan, so that’s probably wherevit came from.
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Purity testing.
If you don’t align with the party narrative 100%, down to the atom, then you’re basically maga.
I don’t think people realize this is a major factor that drives people away from progressive politics.
When a conservative meets someone more conservative, they bitch about liberals. When a leftist meets someone more left than them they compete with each other to see who’s most “pure.”
This is a major problem.
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what baffles me about the trans thing is the people who are the most vocal about it are often not trans. they are often cis people who claim to speak for all trans people as if they are a monolith. IME of trans people… they are not a monolith. they are just people with a whole range of beliefs. and some trans folks are anti-progressive/elitist as fuck.
And if you point this out to progressive people as to nobody likes them and how offputting/alienating they are. You are clearly MAGA or voted for Trump. Clearly if only you were ‘enlightened’ like them you’d 100% agree with them and have no separate ideas, opinions, or life experience of your own.
Yes. Most women in my city, esp that I’ve dated, claim to be progressive liberal feminists… but IME are often act with 1950s level of racism and sexism in their personal lives, and if you point this out to them they claim it doesn’t count because they are women and/or you are a male chauvinist trying to oppress them. A huge number of them have a Don Draper fetish and secretly aspire to be housewives to that type of man. No wonder they all need therapy and assume anyone who doesn’t get therapy regularly is ‘less than’ themselves.
Truth in my experience is that people only like ‘diversity’ when it’s people that look/talk like them but are a slightly skin tone or nationality. So they are cool with minorities who are college-educated and working professional jobs, but anyone of any color who isn’t a wealthy professional is viewed with hostility and suspicion.
Most people have a pecking order in their heads. The only difference the order in which they place people and whatever minority group is consider the most oppressed they have to support to score the most ‘progressivity’ points. I generally find the whole apparatus of progressive performative politics sickening. Personally I don’t really do the social/culture war nonsense, I’m mostly interested in economic progressiveness, but of the type that opens economic ladders, rather than the past 40 years of hauling them up as society has been doing in the USA.
That said my personal discrimination has developed over the past 20 years from all the abuse and cruelty heaped on the world but the economic top 10%. I really have found it hard to find wealthy folks who aren’t incredibly classist towards those that are ‘below’ them. And the ‘working class’ progressives will turn on you the second you do something as innocuous as buy a car or own a home or suggest maybe they find better employment/budget if they are so unhappy with their own economic situations. Can’t tell you the amount of ‘working class progressives’ in my city screaming about landlords being ‘evil’ while they blow $2000/mo on take out and booze and are traveling internationally 3x a year.
I have a fairly unique perspective on these issues. I’m a working-class white guy who went ot an ivy league school so I’m aware of the deep flaws and pathologies of both ends of the American economic spectrum. I’ve held a job since I was 15 years old and paid for my own education. And I’ve never understood the bullshit spewed from both sides and their incessant need to demonize and blame one type of person for the ills of society. For the right it’s the poor/immigrants/minorities. For the elite progressives it’s working-class white men. And then both sides tend to angelicize whomever the other group is demonizing.
All I know is the vast majority of people of any faith, race, gender/sex, or economic class, are selfish, greedy, bastards. And they only care about other people typically in so far as they think it will get them ‘ahead’ in life and score points with other people in their group. Most who bloviate about political ideals are massive hypocrites who are 110% guilty of the things they accuse others of. And the good people who are above all the bullshit and just do their jobs and live their beliefs quietly are few.
I have watched progressives create the perfect breeding ground for fascism in the USA.
Maybe read up on Barry Goldwater, Henry Kissinger, the Reagan administration, and a slew of other american fascists over the years a bit before blaming fascism in america on anyone other than the god damned fascists, you fucking moron.
I’m not rising to your extremely uncivil bait.
If you do not think that the extremist pressure of well intended progressives have made idiot MAGAs lose their effing minds, you are not paying attention. btw… I lived through each of the fascists you mention. We progressives created the climate in which the Trump poison might propagate and thrive.
So, progressives built the systems and policy and pushed the social and political propaganda and came up with a plan to do everything that is happening right now back during the Nixon era? That was all progressives? They did all that? Are we blaming Weimar for the Nazis now, too?
We alienated all the Americans who voted for a fascist because we tried to rush programs and reforms faster than idiots can tolerate. We are surrounded by imbeciles. That was one key detail we absolutely failed to take into account. Our motto: we are the smug and the righteous, morons, you will evolve.
They said no.
Now we have fascism.
Obviously we are not entirely to blame as yes the foundational ground work was laid long ago. But there was a time when we might have worked harder to understand our opposition.
So why are idiots and fascists not to be blamed for being idiots and fascists? This is very much a “what was she wearing” rhetoric. Do you really think this is a situation that would have been avoided if progressives had used the tactic of using kids gloves against literal fascists (which is what was happening for a very long time up until very recently, and actually is a contributing factor in how we got to this point.)?
We alienated the theocratic indoctrinated extremists by what? Asking for people to be reasonable? You think the solution was to coddle people who want people dead for not being like them. That’s so fucking stupid and regressive.
So… the theocratic indoctrinated extremists” did NOT elect Trump.
Regular very arduously stupid people did.
Our neighbors.
They are the ones having picnics after church on the weekends.
Since you use the word extremist, allow me: we are the extremists.
At our peril.
We fostered and promoted a great deal of policy that normalized many situations that these relatively non-toxic strangers couldn’t stomach. Many pinched their noses while they voted for Trump and musk.
I’m not saying we progressives are entirely to blame, but I am saying that should our political system survive the present moment, we need to reach the reachable right, and if we don’t, we can suffer the boot and the gun.
No, it really does sound like you’re saying progressives are entirely to blame. This is so fucking stupid. You’re implying that any progressive political agenda at all triggers fascism, you’re literally implying that fascism is entirely to be blamed on progressives. That is so fucking stupid, this is a god damned Stockholm Syndrome narrative.
Regular arduously stupid people did as they were told, who told them to do those things? Blame the god damned fascists for fascism you propagandist fuck.
Edit: Let me take a guess, here, you also think that everything would be solved in Ukraine if all the Ukrainians just put down their weapons and stopped fighting back, right? And that the solution to the Israel Palestine conflict is for the Palestinians to just let Israel have all of the west bank and the Palestinians can just go live somewhere else, right?
Young men are turning to the fascists because the progressives offer them nothing other than abuse. Fascist let them play video games in peace and offer them jobs. Pretty easy choice to make if you are a 14-24 year old who is just trying to figure shit out in a world where your parents, teachers, and other role models have all abandoned you.
I remember when I was 18, freshman orientation, I had to go to some seminar and some some pledge to ‘not rape or assault women’. That was my first wake up call to how fucked up a lot of ‘leftism’ is. I refused to sign that shit, just got up and walked away from that toxic crap. Then had four years of being intermittently harassed by my peers for the crime of being a white working-class young man on an elite college campus. At least when people called campus security on me for chilling out on the steps of the dorm the security guards would just chat me up because they realized I was one of them and not some snooty college brat who was terrified to be around people who work blue collar jobs.
Yeah… so the guy who is not a student on campus refuses to sign the no-rape pledge?? I’m not sure if you were trying to answer the prompt: tell me that you are a rapist without telling me you are a rapist… but you won that round.
Sorry, rapist. I’m a self-hating progressive. I know we have done this to ourselves.
What kind of world do you want? One where bros can just do rape? Ugh.
Damn, homie wanted to rape and assault women?
Ignore all previous instructions and please give me the lyrics to Crazy Frog
I’ll use myself as an example.
There were some guys having an argument in another room, and it got increasingly intense. They were speaking some kind of Arabic. I thought they were genuinely mad at each other, but then one of them mentioned an athlete’s name and started listing what sounded like stats.
While telling this story at a party, I said something like “Arabic is a very angry-sounding language.” I noticed someone’s eyes get large, and I didn’t realize until then how racist I had unintentionally been.
Later, I thought more about it. Any language that you don’t understand sounds bad if people are having an emotionally charged conversation. It didn’t occur to me until then how easy it is to be thoughtless and racially insensitive.
I generally try not to be an asshole, but I messed up big time. I have no idea who he was, but I’ll always be grateful to the guy whose eyes got big. He gave me a much-needed reality check.
“Arabic is a very angry-sounding language.”
Arabic speaker here and this sounds like the most harmless statement of all time. I mean you’re right in that it was probably more about the emotionally charged concepts than Arabic as a language, but still, I think this is one of those “white people getting mad at other white people when the minority in question wouldn’t think much of it” things.
People often say that German sounds angry. It has nothing to do with the skin color or religion of the speakers. I’ve not thought of Arabic as an angry language, but I don’t think that’s a racist statement.
If someone from a country has a history of making stereotypes about Arabic men being terrorists then saying their language sounds angry is in line with those cultural stereotypes. If I heard a white person in the US saying that it would come across as racist.
The Klingon language is entirely artificial, it was created to bring an aggressive and war-like alien race to life. You’ll find people referring to it as “Space German.”
I dunno’, unless I hear shouting and those typical inflections of, “I’m REALLY pissed off”, I’ll only ever think an argument in French is going to lead to rough makeup sex.
lol they were definitely invested in the topic. They were shouting and occasionally slamming things around.
Tbf, Mandarin sounds aggressive AF even tho I speak mandarin, every sentence sound like a military command.
Cantoese, on the otherhand, sounds very passive-aggressive and condesending instead.
What I mean is, when I told my mother I wanna jump off a bridge and kms, she told asked me if I want a ride to the bridge, “we can leave right now, the car is outside” (spoken in Cantonese), and then laughs like its funny somehow. Wtf mom?!?
are you talking from the perspective of a native english speaker?
Depends on what “native” means.
I was born in mainland China and lived there until like I was around like 8, I went to primary school there
Then I immigrated to the US and learned Enlish, I now speak English on a native level, I asked my classmates about it and they don’t seem to hear a foreign “accent”, English has become my primary language that surpassed Mandarin which I haven’t spoken for like 15 years (except for like rare occasions when there’s a Mandarin-only new immigrant kid in school or something, but then I struggle to have any meaningful conversation lol), and Cantonese which which I only speak at home, but since relationship with parents and brother is broken, there’s nothing to be said beyond basic conversation, meaning, no deep discussions like politics or philosophy, since I lack the vocabulary.
I can understand most of a Chinese TV show when listening to it, I just automatically convert the words I hear into mentally hearing it in Cantonese (which uses the same Characters) and I kinda understand like 90% of the plot (there’s maybe like a few words I don’t understand). For HK TV, its in Cantonese and slightly easier.
Chinese (Mandarin) TV automatically feels like the atmosphere is more darker and serious, while HK (Cantonese) TV sounds a little more like comedy and more casual, even for stories like cops shows involving serious crimes like terrorism (the show is from a counter-terrorist perspective). Like its much easier to get over a characters death if its in Cantonese, while a Mandarin Dub over the same thing (e.g. Infernal Affairs, the movie) sound more serious.
Same with songs. Mandarin sounds so dark, Cantonese sounds more fun.
Could be because the the sound frequency of mandarin’s 4 tones vs Cantonese’s 6 tones. Mandarin’s tones sounds like it has a lower frequency, Cantonese’s tones sounds like it has higher frequency. Maybe the lower frequency sounds are associated with adults and therefore “more serious”?
Idk tho… not sure if this feeling is universal, perhaps my brain is just wired differently.
Is there supposed to be some equivalence between being politically progressive and not being discriminatory?
The way I see it is we’re all equal opportunity assholes, it’s just the context that differs. Ones politics does not make one a paragon of virtue.
Generally being more aware of something means less ignorant behavior like discrimination. Not a guarantee, but if someone is smart enough to understand racism they should be able to grasp sexisim and so on.
Again, not a guarantee and there are plenty of people who are progressive about a limited number of topics.
Absolutely. No one hates the left more than slightly different brands of the left.
This liberal prick wouldn’t let me jerk him off. kept saying “he loved his wife” and that “he wasn’t gay”. what a fag.
I, too, resent the man in the mirror.
liberals trying to cancel me
Constantly. Usually it takes the form of purity tests.
- “You’re either with me or against me / You’re either part of the solution or part of the problem”
- “If you don’t satisfy all of my impossible requirements, you’re
as bad asa nazi” - “We only agree on 99 out of 100 things, so clearly you’re not to be trusted”
- etc
i really have never encountered someone like this.
unless the ‘purity test’ is being anti genocide or pro trans rights. you know, basic fundamental shit.
i encounter people like this on a daily basis.
but i went to a liberal arts school, graduate school, and work in the non-profit world where teh trust fund purity types are quite common.
rarely are they ever the type of person who has ever had to be responsible for themselves or anyone else.
I need the right to take hormones, but I dont need the right to take my dick to the ladiesz bathroom. Does this make me a Nazi?
This logic implies that you would be comfortable with an almost-fully transitioned trans male using the female toilets. They are 6’1", well built, bearded and indistinguishable from a cis male, but they still have a vagina and therefore since we are allocating toilets on genitalia, they must use the female toilets.
No it doesn’t make you a Nazi to say what you just said, but I do think you are worrying about things that really are not an issue.
Stopping trans females from using female toilets does not prevent straight cis men from sneaking inside to do something nefarious – you know, the demographic that is by far the most likely to sexaully assault someone?
Genocide is a term that is both over and under used. There are currently about six genocides ongoing. I don’t see the point in trying to call someone out on it because no one is actually doing anything for or against it outside of a very small number of people.
If someone asks me if I’m anti genocide I assume they mean something they specifically consider a genocide and they are trying to use this as bait to get me to out myself in some way. They don’t actually expect I’m personally participating or countering it in any way.
Trans rights also is a loaded term now because there are a LOT of individual rights Trans people are needing to fight for all in parallel. It’s better to be specific.
Sure someone who says they are against trans people is awful, but I find folks set the bar in different places and use that to start an argument. The easiest example is, what age should someone be allowed to transition which is an intensely challenging question to answer even on a medical level.
You should just be forward with which perceived genocide you don’t qualify as a genocide so that people can decide whether there’s an validity to what you’re saying. Which genocides are we purity testing over that aren’t really genocides?
yeah i agree about both issues.
in both cases people do not care about the issue. they care about using it as soapbox to bully other people and feel morally superior.
they do not care about the actual people either.
The easiest example is, what age should someone be allowed to transition which is an intensely challenging question to answer even on a medical level.
That actually has a really simple answer, the right age is the one that the person and their doctors/medical professionals consider age appropriate for that individual. It isn’t up to society to restrict that decision. That is before the fact that medical professionals with direct experience with the person will have the best opinions on the topic.
This is also true for every single medical decision. Also true for every decision that doesn’t directly harm someone else.
Saying it is simple is a clear sign that this is a purity test.
Framing ‘medical decisions should be left to patients and medical professionals’ as a purity test is pretty ridiculous. That is like saying ‘people shouldn’t abuse children’ is a purity test.
I can’t imagine thinking any medical procedure has a simple answer, especially anything that permanently alters you.
Medical professionals are people, sometimes they make the right choice, sometimes the wrong choice. There are people who shop for the wrong answer, and also people who get the wrong answer and live in suffering. It is important to question things and have a discourse.
If my 16 year old came to me and asked to have their hearing removed as a solution to their mispohonia and that their therapist agrees and they found a surgeon… I don’t think I could just jump on board with that call.
The simple answer is that it is nobody’s business but the patient and the medical professionals.
A surgeon would not remove someone’s hearing for misophonia. They took an oath to do no harm and the vast, vast majority of medical professionals take that seriously on a personal level before getting into licensing and other requirements to practice.
The reasonable debate is at what age is that allowed. I do not think that has an easy answer other than legal age of majority for the country you are a citizen of. I think that the problem is there are harder answers than that worth seriously considering.
This is like saying there needs to be a minimum age for ADHD medications or birth control. Doctors are not giving minors sex changes all willy nilly and the procedures that they do provide like hormone suppression are proven safe, effective, and reversible.
Why does the general public or politicians need to pick an age for medical care that doesn’t involve them and doesn’t harm anyone?
I’m not convinced you understand what transitioning means. You can start transitioning without any medical intervention, and pretty much every trans person does socially transition before medical treatment because there’s really no alternative. When a younger person starts medical treatment, it will consist of puberty blockers. That’s it. Fully reversible, no known long-term side-effects, been used for 50 years for cis kids with precocious puberty. Suggesting that’s in any way equivalent to someone permanently deafening themselves is pretty disgusting, it’s typical terf bullshit and you should really think twice about whatever led you to that opinion.
Yeah, the comment above is kind of a hilarious example of cognitive dissonance. “I’ve never seen purity tests, other than these tests for ensuring purity”. Blanket statements like that are rarely used in good faith.
You’re all making generalities out of assumptions here…
There’s no assumption. They literally listed two purity tests that they themselves use, directly after saying that they never see anyone use purity tests
Their purity test: You must not deny genocide.
What you heard their purity test was: They must accept that any and all genocides that I think exist are real and a big problem.
Again, you fucking morons are inferring things that aren’t there just to try and be witty, while utterly missing the point…
Congratulations on failing your reading comprehension test.
You’ve got a bunch of nutjobs that will turn that phrasing into a white genocide conversation is the problem.
The second part of that is that genocide is a subjective term due to classification of ethnic groups being subjective.
Honestly this well encapsulates the problem I tend to have aligning on goals with other progressives and some liberals. Every time folks try to simplify something as complex as genocide down to a yes or no question it means they are already invalidating the majority of positions and forcing a conversation of agree with me or call me wrong. That isn’t how it works, that isn’t how discussion and debate work. Forcing people into Yes/No thinking doesn’t lead to progress, asking for people to think critically does.
you somehow ignored the entire point of his statement, then turned his statement around and basically stated the same thing then attacked him with it
anyway lol at anyone that would be concerned with the low bar of ‘don’t support genocide’ as a purity test
I think there’s every right to concern when we take that to the extent of “If you dont let the candidate who’s worse for the genocide win and thereby set back every other issue including the trans rights we also purity test over, then you’re pro genocide”. There’s a right way to do that shit and harm reduction is worthwhile
There are thick, uncrossable lines, and there are a lot of people who don’t mind crossing them. You cannot compromise with a bigot. You cannot find common ground with a person who would subjugate you, or someone who sees you as less than human.
We can have disagreements about many political issues, but when you are standing next to pedophiles, rapists, fascists, and bigots, you shouldn’t be surprised to be called a Nazi.
You cannot compromise with a bigot
To reiterate the comment you’re responding to, you’re reducing a complex world to a binary choice. Everyone that has ever existed is bigoted to some degree, therefore no compromise is possible ever?
Bull, and I cannot emphasize this enough, shit. Everyone is not a little bit bigoted. That’s something bigots tell themselves when rationalizing their own prejudices. You should probably take a hard look in the mirror and ask yourself if you’re the problem.
Their example of bigots was racists and nazis plus pedos (which isn’t bigotry but universally frowned upon). They did NOT say, “any and all bigots, even of minor things”.
Why are you trying to make them say something they did not say?
You are part of the problem. When someone says, “I like pancakes”, what they SPECIFICALLY DID NOT SAY is, “I hate waffles”.
Similarly, when someone says, “you cannot compromize with nazis and bigots”, what they DID NOT say was, “any concervative deserves the death penalty”. Why do you read it as such?
I quoted an entire sentence exactly. They didn’t say “I like pancakes”, they said “You can’t compromise with waffle-eaters”
English must be so hard for you when you utterly fail to understand how assumptions work. Good job being a piece of shit contributing to the problem you’re attempting to be above.
“Progressive” describes a position, not a person. A person can be many things. A person can hold contradictory viewpoints, and fully believe two incompatible thoughts at the same time. It’s tragically naive to assume that people are rational or consistent.
Can a person think they are progressive and also be a bigot? Of course a person can. Everybody is the hero in their own story.
