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Because they’re an unsustainable con for saving the auto/oil cartels instead of the planet/humanity?
Instead of going into poverty buying a luxury vehicle, people should be given safe and sustainable infrastructure for LEVs, bikes, pedestrians, and of course public transit.
Were waiting for the next wave of $25k EV since there is no hope that the tariffs on the only county with enough scale to build affordable EV is on a 100% tariff.
At least for me the reasons are
- Lack of interest
- They’re ridiculously Ugly
- Range (I’ve driven 1500 miles in the last 3 weeks)
- Driving Experience is worse (opinion, but still something I stand by)
- Charging
- Price
When I was looking at new cars an EV wasn’t even an option. I wanted a 2 door performance coupe and there isn’t anything even close to that in EVs, let alone on the used market. A 2014 Audi was a better choice in almost every metric beyond gas prices.
I would like to note that if you wanted to drive as far as possible, my car could probably go more than 5000mi in three weeks, though I typically only drive a few hundred a week.
And contrary to a gas car I never have to stop to fuel, I just get home and it charges over night.
Also, what’s wrong with the “driving experience”? It’s not loud enough or something?
I regularly do 400+ mile trips in a day or two ( I’m a photographer ) and need to be able to quickly have range available in non major metro areas.
Since I live in an apartment overnight charging isn’t an option. So I’d still have to go places to charge, which takes significantly longer than stopping for gas.
Driving experince is subjective, but instant power with no real hp/torque curves makes driving really boring. There’s no response from the car, it’s just an On/Off toggle. There’s no real fun to driving it.
Yes the sound is a major part. I’ve got a very nice, valved exhaust system on my new car that adds a ton to how much fun the car is. Hearing the engine, how it responds and how the power is applied is a major part of the fun of driving.
If all you want is a car to get from point A to point B, an EV is completely fine, but as someone who genuinely enjoys cars and driving, EVs are boring and will 100% get you laughed out of most car shows.
You’re worried it’s not loud enough and that people will laugh at you in car shows?? You’re part of the problem.
Nah, I just enjoy cars and (legal) racing.
I’m never going to be interested in an EV. They’re boring, soulless creations that don’t interest me as an enthusiast. They’re great commuter vehicles, but that’s where their use ends. ICE is always going to be preferred by car people.
You know this hobby of yours is directly or indirectly bad for the environment, for society (Middle East tensions, see 9/11), for road safety in case of SUVs that block view of children in front of it, for city planning, and I could go on. But still you’re a “car person”, so none of that matters.
Normal people will have to wait for you and other “car people” to die off for the planet to become a better place. Until then, you’re actively making things worse.
Why is charging bad? Id argue it’s a plus. You never have to go to a gas station and every morning you wake up with a full charge for your day.
I don’t have a place to charge at home, nor a way to run a cord from my apartment to a car, so charging becomes a 20-30 minute ordeal instead of a 3 minute tank of gas on my way to work.
My non EV is still perfectly serviceable and I don’t like all the superfluous electronic touchscreen bullshit they’re putting in modern vehicles so I’m going to keep driving it until the wheels fall off.
Yup, I’m looking at used EVs to replace my commuter (50mpg, so no hurry), and they come with a bunch of smart crap, so I’m looking at ways to block any potential phoning home before I buy the car.
It’s dumb. Just give me an EV with 150-200 miles range with no smart crap for $20k and I’ll buy it.
Yes. Preferably an option in the form of a small single cab pickup truck with a full size bed.
Yeah, I would probably buy that. I currently use my minivan for must “truck” things, but neither my wife or I like driving it, and we can’t just get a load of mulch or whatever.
So yeah, something like the old Ford ranger would be awesome.
I don’t know what telematics the Leaf had, but you’re describing what Nissan tried to do with that
Neither do I, and that’s concerning. Here’s their privacy policy:
Connected Vehicle Data
If you have a connected vehicle, your vehicle may be equipped with NissanConnect Services, which electronically transmits data generated by your vehicle. This information could include data collected in the context of a trial period or demonstration mode. Through these services, we may obtain vehicle and driving information, such as:
- Vehicle operation – including Vehicle Identification Number (VIN), Precise Geolocation and navigation information, speed and distance information, driving behavior, EV battery information (including use management, charging history and performance), electrical system functions, diagnostic trouble codes, maintenance conditions, software version information, and similar data
- Vehicle usage – your use of the vehicle’s functions and some corresponding services, websites and smartphone applications
- Vehicle status – information about door locks, open doors, engine status, etc.
- Vehicle safety – data about certain accidents involving the vehicle (for example, the direction from which the vehicle was hit, and which air bags have deployed)
I don’t know if NissanConnect is optional (looks like it is?), or if it’s “optional,” as in you need to accept to access core car features, like setting battery charge limits, redeeming a warranty, or accessing diagnostics. But I know the capability exists and I’d really like to have guarantees, as in, can I block Nissan from remotely accessing my vehicle? If not, can I remove the module without impacting other functions of the car?
But it’s really hard (at least in my few minutes of searching) to figure out what privacy concerns there are and what options I have to deal with it.
It’s an industry wide problem for sure. Whatever politician takes that up will get huge votes.
My EV is likely one of the worst offenders l, but they’re all offenders
When I looked into similar for my 1996 Pontiac, it was already a concern, and it’s gotten much worse
I looked into it a bit, and it looks like Chevy’s OnStar should be easy to remove (just a circuit board behind the dash). It’s ridiculous that I need to go through this though, I should be able to just turn it off and it would be off…
Same. With my driving needs I get fuel about every 2 weeks so it’s not a big burden. And I go on several long road trips each year and charging stations are not something I need to deal with.
If my - or any other - complex had charging stations, I’d consider it. The most I’d ever be able to get is a hybrid, if I wasn’t so dirt-ass poor that an old and busted used car was the best that I could afford, because I’m disabled and live in friggin America.
Price, range, infrastructure, in roughly that order of importance when averaged over the population. The article then goes into factors affecting price. (Of course, the article originated with the Financial Times and was only reprinted by Ars, so it makes sense that they would put money first.)
For me, the last time I was in the market for a replacement vehicle, the 2 biggest factors were availability and price.
The dealers had zero stock (except maybe a rare fully optioned ridiculously priced example of the top of the line model), and I was not in a position to wait 2+ months for a factory order of a car that I couldn’t even test drive.
Exactly.
I’m willing to get a commuter EV, but almost everything either has too little range (e.g. older Leafs) or too much range that drives up the cost. I’m not willing to spend $30k+ on something that can really only be a commuter.
EVs don’t have the range to replace our family car since we do road trips, and anything with enough storage is already way more than a reasonable hybrid. Add to that high electricity rates at charging stations, and I’m just not interested.
So, make an affordable EV ($20k, ideally less) with 150-200 miles range, and I’ll buy it. I’m looking at used Bolts, which seem to be ~$15k after the credit for used. There really should be something new in this category though…
That’s what I’ve been saying for the last several years: give me a good commuter EV to replace my more commuter ICE. I still think two car households in single family homes are the ideal market, but i divorced my second car and spent a little more in the EV that can get me places. So far so good with road trips up to 3 hours, but we’ll see this summer with bigger road trips
Too expensive. Not owner repairable. Too much unnecessary tech baked in.
There’s a path forward for EV’s, but I don’t think the current philosophy is it.
Dacia spring has no unnecessary tech 😍 and is cheap
But, it is small 😂🤷🏻♀️ big enough for my family, at least.
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Coming to the US never
😂 I don’t plan to go to US anytime soon
Me neither, but this is an article about Americans.
True that…
Americans probably don’t want to buy those Chinese EVs that poorly made and dangerous
Would be nice if they made ‘dumb’ EVs. Like the kind where even the windows are manual old school roll up. I don’t need to walk into a spaceship to drive to get groceries. But all they’re selling are luxury spaceships. For all the good Tesla did to rebrand the market, I feel it also did a lot of harm by creating an incentive for luxury vehicles.
Feel like this is what Fisker should’ve tried. The Ocean had the right hardware but it seemed like they spent too much effort on their infotainment instead of getting the basics right. Then target the sub-$30k market with a car that drives well with decent range and fewer gimmicks that just works.
That’s what the PEAR would’ve been
No one’s mentioned the privacy nightmare that new vehicles are. Why anyone would pay $45k for a vehicle that spies on you for the sole benefit of car manufacturers and insurance companies is beyond me. Do away with all the unnecessary privacy violations, or pay ME a monthly subscription for MY data.
A used car that has physical gauges and knobs that’s $5000 + $1500 in preventive maintenance can actually make a decent vehicle. Plus doing the maintenance yourself can teach you a lot about working on cars.
Yep, this is the reason I won’t get an EV or any modern car. Probably gonna be driving 2016 cars or older the rest of my life.
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Yeah it’s not my ideal solution either, but I don’t see modern cars getting any better on privacy. If some manufacturer made a stripped down, privacy preserving car I’d be all about it.
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The problem is they integrate that shit with the functions you do want like the radio and AC and then make you operate it all through a god damn touchscreen so that if you get on the highway before you realize you forgot to turn the shitty lane assist off you now have to take your life in your hands to disable it or risk it ramming you into that ladder or pothole or something because it doesn’t want you to change lanes abruptly.
This is not specific to EVs, but is most cars from the last decade or two
I want a super cheap EV for 15k-20k to drive around the city, but I’m not ready to give up my gas jeep.
The cheapest EV I can seem to find is about 45k CAD new, looks stupid, and comes with a ton of features I don’t want that will just break and need repair…
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Would you buy one if they were more affordable? Personal experience I agree they are quite a lot of money to get behind the wheel of.
While we have plenty of gas stations to fill up with home charging can be another hurdle that’s costly or impossible depending on the living situation.
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All of them are expensive, and almost all of them are ugly as fuck. And the ones that I would consider even decent looking enough to drive are even more expensive than the others.
It definitely has nothing to do with the outrageous starting price range.
Yup, American manufacturers are still treating EVs as if they’re this exotic new toy for upper-middle class people or silicon valley douche bros, rather than getting onboard with the concept if them just being a utilitarian thing that needs to be marketed to normal people.
Give me the EV equivalent of the Geo Metro and I’ll buy it in a heart beat. I’m not taking out a second mortgage for a car that tries to drive itself and whatever dumb gimmicks they come up with, but I will 100% buy an affordable, practical EV designed with efficiency and economy in mind.
2026 Bolt could change that. Hopefully the ultium system is fixed up by then. Also base model Volvo EX30s are going to come from Belgium to maintain their mid 30’s price point.
What we really need is the government to make a grant or low interest loan available to anyone with a parking lot and an electrical hookup to put in fast chargers. Everything from libraries to gas stations.
It is not a defense of the manufacturers, but EVs are still damn expensive to make. And they are completely at fault for that too, because everyone except Tesla dragged their feet about making the EV transition.
Right, and worse. After years of dragging their feet, broadcasting FUD to discourage potential customers, they try to all release premium priced cars at once to now uncertain customers. And priced well above their initial announcements. Of course their naive predictions of ridiculous growth didn’t pan out. They’re not just guilty of dragging their feet, but screwing up when they finally tried it.
And what the heck is wrong with GM? The second biggest American seller of EVs, and they drop what has been working, to make the same mistake as everyone else. And wtf were they thinking about piling on with dropping CarPlay and claiming they can do better: wtf, we e seen what you can do, that’s why everyone wants CarPlay. Oh, and I’m sure all this talk about subscriptions is really going to bring in the buyers
I’m with you. I ended up just buying a used gas vehicle because the others are just too expensive.
Money. That’s the answer
Buy an EV? In this economy?
Buy an
EVything? In this economy?
I mean, just they’re too expensive. You can buy a normal gas car for around 147 Monero while an EV will set you back 238 Monero.
Yup.
However, there’s a nice niche of used EVs. I can get a 2-5yo Bolt for $13-17k (76-100 XMR) after the $4k credit, which should still have 200+ miles range. I’m seriously considering it, but only for my commuter.
If you only have one car, range and charging network are serious considerations as well if you like to do road trips. My coworker with a brand new Model 3 has avoided certain trips within our state just because of charging network. It’s a serious issue…
76 to 100 is not a bad price range, actually. Not at all.
I would avoid used Bolts, especially because of all the issues those have had with going up in flames.
Hopefully they’ve fixed those issues in the newest models…
From what I can tell, it only really impacts 2017 and 2019 Bolts, and most (all?) of the problematic ones have been recalled. Certainly ask for proof when buying though.
I’m just going to get a different year instead.
They expanded the initial recall. It affects models from 2017 to 2022. If you read the linked article I previously provided, then you missed the key point that vehicles were still bursting into flames even after the recall.
Expanded recall: https://gmauthority.com/blog/2021/09/gm-asking-chevy-bolt-ev-owners-to-park-50-feet-away-from-other-vehicles/
GM stopped replacing the batteries of the newer models and instead offered a software solution that would monitor the batteries for any issues and allow the vehicle to charge beyond the 80% limit that they had set because of these issues. https://electrek.co/2023/06/14/bolt-battery-recall-diagnostics/
But it’s worth noting that this software update has failed to prevent some fires, so the problem isn’t really “fixed” even with this: https://electrek.co/2021/07/08/chevy-bolt-ev-catches-on-fire-after-receiving-both-of-gm-software-fixes/
Ah, interesting. Thanks for the clarification. There’s been a lot of white-washing by people arguing that the problem wasn’t as bad as it was (it’s still a small percentage of vehicles), and I was considering getting a 2020 to avoid the issues in the earlier models.
That said, I may still get one. From the last link:
Briglin didn’t always run the battery low before recharging, but said that “at least 50% of charges” he plugged in below 20%. This is a similar pattern to the last fire on May 1 and something that seems to trigger the runaway thermal events.
I will rarely be below 50% charge, much less 20%. My commute is 25 miles each way, 2x/week, so if I assume 50% range in winter, I’ll still need <50% battery capacity. The rest of the driving would be around-town, so maybe 10-15 miles/day. So I could set a cap of 80% and charge whenever it gets <40% and probably be totally fine.
But I also plan to park in a garage with flammable stuff nearby (bare drywall, dry leaves, cardboard boxes, etc), so maybe I won’t even take that small risk. Idk, I’ll need to read more about it. I could park outside if needed though, I have a brick house with external outlets that I could use, it’s just kind of inconvenient.
My car cost 10k€, the equivalent EV is 20k€. Why don’t I buy more EVs? That’s a mystery, let’s call McKinsey to understand why.
Also let’s double the price of more affordable foreign cars to increase the amount of mystery. Sometimes I wonder if governments do this to make fun of us because it’s so stupid.
Those “more affordable foreign cars” are only priced that low because the Chinese government is subsidizing them so much, which is only temporary and lasts just as long as it takes to put their competitors out of business.
This is a race to the bottom just like states giving trillion dollar corporations billions in tax breaks as an incentive to move to their state. At the end of the day, it just harms everyone and should be avoided, which is why the US and EU are putting tariffs on Chinese EVs. They’re still free to sell them at the real cost and actually compete with everyone else.
There’s also the issue of very little (if any) used EVs on the market, and in an affordable range. Most people are looking for a reliable used car for around $1000-$2000 US, and the cheapest EV I have seen is around $7500. And there’s always the question of what condition the batteries are in – if you had to replace all the batteries in a used EV then you easily doubled the cost of it. Fortunately it seems like Tesla is the only manufacturer asinine enough to seal their batteries, other manufactures allow replacement of individual cells which will really help in the used market.
If I were expecting to buy a car for $1-2k, I’d expect it to be on its last legs, even for ICE. Unless you’re comfortable fixing it yourself, any significant repair is already not worth it
$1000-$2000 cars are the $500 beaters from 10+ years ago. I wouldn’t say most people are looking in this price range and they’re usually on their last leg and the cheapest option for a car. There are cellphones that cost more than this now.
Agreed.
I can buy a $1k car, carefully, and have a “beater” that works fine. Most people can’t. They need something in a bit better condition.
Though the greater point - battery replacement would be $5k-$10k on most cars, no thanks - that’s equivalent to replacing both the engine and transmission on a gas vehicle, at “fuck the customer” stealership prices.
My gas vehicles always go 300k miles, before needing either an engine or trans, many longer. Engines today are damn robust, and have been since the 90’s.
My maintenance over the years is trivial - about $150/year on fluid changes (that with an AWD vehicle with a unique setup). Occasionally something breaks, but that stuff you’d have on any vehicle (tie rod ends, latches, hood release cabke/switch, etc).
There’s a lot of BS out there about all this.
