• Kabe@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    edit-2
    5 months ago

    A fair guess, but this isn’t one of those times when a grammatical error becomes normalized through common usage.

    There is no grammar rule that separates speaking literally versus metaphorically in this case.

    “You have something on your face; go take a look in the mirror” is just as grammatically correct in English as “You need to take a good look in the mirror and change your ways.”

    I’ve explained why this is standard usage in English in my comment here.

    • EleventhHour@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      edit-2
      5 months ago

      “You have something on your face; go take a look in the mirror” is just as grammatically correct in English

      yes, but only if you’re referring to a specific mirror. so, “go look in the mirror” would be appropriate if you’re also indicating to/pointing at a mirror, or there’s been a specific mirror under discussion already (or if the audience already knew there was only one mirror they could be referring to.)

      also, it’s not technically a grammatical error, but one of poor style/form.

      edit: also, i’m not a fan of the “using the grammar and spelling of a 3 year-old is valid because language is fluid!” argument. bad grammar and poor style/form are just that. just because doing so may be popular doesn’t magically make it “valid”. to me, that whole argument reeks of, “I’m not wrong for being ignorant, you’re wrong for pointing out my mistake-- so it’s magically not a mistake anymore so I can avoid acknowledging ever being wrong!”

      • Kabe@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        5 months ago

        Nope, as I explained in my other comment, it’s standard usage.

        In English, we often use the definite article when speaking in general about a specific activity or action that involves a non-specific object. E.g. “go to the bathroom” or “catch the bus”, or “read the newspaper”. It’s not poor form at all.

        • EleventhHour@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          5 months ago

          Nope, as I explained in my other comment, it’s standard usage.

          you explained more or less what i did, except the whole “using the grammar and spelling of a 3 year-old is valid because language is fluid!” BS argument i outright reject–

          and your claims of being an English teacher? it bears no weight here.

          Argument from authority

          An argument from authority (argumentum ab auctoritate), also called an appeal to authority, or argumentum ad verecundiam, is a form of argument in which the opinion of an influential figure is used as evidence to support an argument.[1]

          The argument from authority is a logical fallacy,[2] and obtaining knowledge in this way is fallible.[3][4]

          • Kabe@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            5 months ago

            Lol well teaching this professionally surely makes me some form of authority (albeit of course not the authority!) on this subject.

            To clarify, your original point sounded like you were making a distinction between metaphorical mirrors and actual mirrors:

            “in the mirror” tends to more often refer to a metaphorical “mirror”, typically when discussing self-reflection

            • “I took a look in the mirror and decided to change my ways.”

            “in a mirror” tends to refer most often to actual mirrors that exist in reality, not metaphorically

            • “I looked into a mirror to fix my eyeliner.”

            This incorrect distinction is what I was objecting to, because of course we can use both the indefinite and definite articles to refer to either real or imaginary mirrors.

            • EleventhHour@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              edit-2
              5 months ago

              Lol well teaching this professionally surely makes me some form of authority (albeit of course not the authority!) on this subject.

              no, it doesn’t, because even if you could prove that to us (which i’m sure you won’t), your authority doesn’t trump evidence and facts.

              This incorrect distinction is what I was objecting to, because of course we can use both the indefinite and definite articles to refer to either real or imaginary mirrors.

              and, as i said previously, it’s not technically grammatically incorrect, it’s just bad style/form. and i reject your argument that bad form is “acceptable” just because its common.

              your inability to parse what i’ve said here and your insistence on pursuing a needless argument really doesn’t add credibility to your position that you should be considered an authority-- or your claim that you’re an english teacher.

          • Nibodhika@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            5 months ago

            That’s a common mistake, an argument from authority is only a fallacy if the person is not an authority in the field. Quoting Neil deGrasse Tyson on political views is an argument from authority, quoting him on astrophysics is not.

            • EleventhHour@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              edit-2
              5 months ago

              Wrong. Authority is not what makes an argument correct— facts are. And those exist regardless of any claimed authority— therefore, to argue that one’s authority makes them correct is a fallacy, for it is facts and evidence, not authority, from which truth is derived.

              If Neil Degrasse Tyson said something that’s incorrect and then claimed he was correct simply because he was a physicist does not make him correct.

              Thanks for playing!

              • Nibodhika@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                0
                ·
                5 months ago

                The thing is that facts are not as clear cut as you think, that’s a very childish vision of the world (to think that it is always possible to differentiate a fact, don’t believe me? What am I wearing now? There is a factual answer, but you have no way of knowing it)

                Plus if Neil deGrasse Tyson claims something about astrophysics and you claim he’s wrong, you better have at least someone as knowledgeable as him in astrophysics to back that claim, otherwise I’m siding with the expert on the matter.

                Plus all discussions rely on the backing of experts, otherwise any discussion is impossible, I could just claim your argument is wrong because some word you used means the opposite of what you meant, your only counter argument would be to point to a dictionary, which is by your own definition an appeal to authority fallacy.

                • EleventhHour@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  0
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  5 months ago

                  Now you’re equivocating and using personal insults.

                  And there were “experts” who said that COVID vaccine causes autism.

                  Facts make one correct. Not authority.

                  • Nibodhika@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    0
                    ·
                    5 months ago

                    I’m not insulting you, but thinking that facts are always knowledgeable is a childish vision of the world.

                    You put quotes around expert because you know they weren’t, actual experts were saying vaccines did not cause autism. Let me ask you then, how do YOU know that vaccines don’t cause autism? Because to me the answer is simple, I’ve listened to the consensus of the experts, but to you that’s a fallacy.

                    Facts are not always knowledgeable, authority in a field gives one credibility over the facts they claim.