I joined during the first Reddit exodus, and it seemed like for ages the amount of Lemmy content was generally increasing (sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly, but overall increasing). Now it seems that when I sort by New, I get through everything since my last visit much more quickly than I used to. Is that my imagination, or is the activity declining?
Not for me but im looking more for discussion over like links and such.
I’m actually coming back to Lemmy. I left reddit, but then went back to it with limited participation. And now it’s truly a cesspool. Lemmy may not be a perfect replacement, but it feels better. I should have never left.
There’s way less content here but the content that is here is way better, and the level of intelligence and civility on display is night and day vs Reddit.
Sorry to hear your experience was so bad, but welcome back.
The situation with bots and trolls on Reddit is horrific. Do you remember that time a few years back when Russia disconnected their whole country from the Internet? That day there was a dramatic decrease in assholes and trolls. Like, night and day, it was unmistakeable and widely commented on.
So hopefully Lemmy doesn’t catch on so will that those folks come here in force, too. For now at least, it’s much better.
So hopefully Lemmy doesn’t catch on so will that those folks come here in force, too. For now at least, it’s much better.
At the very least, I suspect Lemmy, as a federated network, has more power to filter them. We saw years ago what happened when the Wolfballs bigots tried to join, they were eventually isolated by most other instances who continued to run without them. So as long as we can retain a situation where the largest instances actually take a solid stance against assholes and trolls and bigots, then it becomes much easier to make them all optional, shunned to register on the more liberalist permissive instances.
Good point. Also worth noting that, since Lemmy isn’t owned by a company trying to make a profit, there’s no incentive to put up with outrageous jerks who drive up engagement.
I don’t know how to check for the whole lemmy but seems it’s growing a bit but the MAU dropped a bit probably because of august: https://fedidb.com/servers/lemmy.world
But the fediverse in general doesn’t grow too much except when a scandal happens.
Watch out, the statistics might not say what you think they do.
“Total users” is a meaningless metric. All it showes is how many users aren’t using lemmy anymore.
“Monthly active users” is the only meaningful metric, and it’s fluctuating and currently going down.
“Activity growth” doesn’t actually show the number of new activities per month, but the total count of activities. So with constant activity you’d expect linear “activity growth” and with growing activity you’d see the line curling upward. It is currently mostly linear but slightly declining.
So these statistics show a slow decline, not an increase.
But in a way you can be happy that it doesn’t grow a lot. With the base architecture of ActivityPub (every instance contains a copy of everything, all content needs to be propagated to all instances, all content needs to be duplicate-moderated by all instances’ admins) it is absolutely not designed to handle large amount of users.
If only a tenth of a percent of Reddit users were to switch over to Lemmy, everything would grind to a halt and most instances would have to close down because running them would become to expensive for a non-profit project.
The user you are replying to has specifically sourced lemmy.world data there, which is not going to give you an overall for the wider fediverse.
This here is a better source: https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/dailystats&days=1000
That’s all of lemmy over the last 1000 days.
Most important takeaways:
- Active users tend to only grow during special events (usually “Reddit pulls some new shit”) and then declines slowly as people fade back out.
- When instances close, users tend to just disappear (as when Lemmy.ee closed down). The Lemmy.ee users seem to have just disappeared instead of migrated to another instance.
- Number of active servers is in a strict decline. Apart from the initial rush, smaller instances seem to go down and don’t get replaced. Most users seem to prefer to use big instances.
- Comments again shows the total number of comments available, not new comments coming in. As you can see, the angle of the curve gets slightly flatter over time, meaning that activity drops. It also shows well that when instances get closed down lots of content just disappears.
- Posts also shows a similar decline, though even stronger than comments.
When instances close, users tend to just disappear (as when Lemmy.ee closed down). The Lemmy.ee users seem to have just disappeared instead of migrated to another instance.
I suggest you look at the piefed activity indicator for more context here.
A big chunk of the lemm.ee base went here, and its gaining servers where Lemmy is losing them.
Yeah, that makes sense. Though still Lemmy.ee’s closure is a drop of ~4500 monthly active users while piefed only totals ~1700 monthly active users in total.
Oh yes, it has some impact - but the slow decline of Lemmy instance activity has to be contextualised with whats going on Piefed (and to a lesser extent: Mbin)
Kbin exists as well, unless something changed since the last time I looked.
But one thing is for certain: The whole field isn’t growing right now.
Yeah one has to be careful with statistics and I couldn’t find the whole Lemmy in one place so it’s also not representative of the whole Lemmy.
I thought ActivityPub did scale well and was ATProto (Bluesky) which had a lot more issues. I mean I can comment on Peertube using my Mastodon account meaning the whole Fediverse is properly connected and we are 1M MAU so I would say it already scaled good.
Here’s all of fediverse: https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/dailystats&days=1000
Also remember, though it says ‘daily’ in the title, that only refers to that the stats are grouped by day. They are still total numbers (e.g. total number of posts that are available on that day, not number of new posts created that day).
Lemmy has the big issue that each instance needs to cache the whole content of each community any user of that instance ever subscribed to. Since Reddit-style platforms only make sense if there are huge communities that means that the biggest communities have most of the traffic while being subscribed to by most instances. That means that most instances have copies of most content.
Same goes with moderation. Since every instance holds a copy of the content, each instance’s operator is liable for illegal content stored on their server, and most instance operators also want their moderation guidelines enforced across the whole instance, even for content coming from other instances, so each instance needs to moderate all content. Content moderation on one instance is not propagated to other instances (unless the moderation happens on the host instance of the community), so you end up with moderators of dozens of instances each having to individually e.g. delete the same post.
This is already such a strain that e.g. Lemmy.ee got shut down because it was just so much work and money doing all of that, and that’s with a miniscule amount of ~40k monthly active users across all of Lemmy. Compare that to the 1.2 billion monthly active users on Reddit. If we only got a tenth of a percent of all Reddit users over to Lemmy, the whole system would come crashing down.
That link is just hanging for me.
The stats say the userbase is increasing, but it also feels like there’s been a lot less content being posted recently.
Could be your instance not federatinv with everything.
I blocked half of fedi as such as DNC whores over at lemmy wrld and shepooh cock riders on ml
Still get a decent trickle.
I honestly think that the whole internet is in decline.
I was just thinking everything seems to either be in decline, stagnation, or regression.
Maybe the whole age verification thing is keeping people offline.
I’m not in a country with the age verification thing, but has it been turned on for Lemmy servers?
UK user here, several big lemmy instances are unavailable for me apart from when I’m on erm holiday
no
I don’t know, but I was thinking it might be causing people to be less online generally, even if Lemmy itself isn’t a problem. I wonder what the Lemmy NSFW people are doing.
I don’t know of any servers that have started to verify ages, but some have started to geoblock countries whose laws require it.
Missing the Internet of my youth makes me feel older than almost anything else.
Fewer things are sadder than the reality of the Internet compared to what we envisioned early on.
It’s perhaps the greatest tragedy of my lifetime, I’m truly not exaggerating. We went from the free sharing of the majority of human knowledge to forcing people to sell their souls for YouTube money.
I feel the same way. I was a CS major in the early 80s. I watched the internet become something amazing, and then I watched it rot. Heartbreaking.
we are, right now, part of the un-rotting
That’s just UK currently
Right, but I’m assuming there’s a nontrivial number of UK users.
Well there’s an amount, but it wouldn’t have much impact on the Fediverse as there’s no age-ID here.
Therefore to comply, the server would relocate or go offline.
Lemmy.zip is the only notable instance to have done this. Mostly because the owner is based in the UK.
I think Lemmy needs a better way to federate communities, so if you sub to say a “Star Trek” community on 3 instances, you don’t get the same post 3 times, but instead it’s somehow linked and content federates; this would be at the community and not instance level, so there’s more community self-governance, and communities can migrate instances without so much intervention from instance admins. I think that will really help growth and decentralization.
People always complain about this but Lemmy does actually combine crossposts in your feed. What frontend are you using? Or maybe it’s just bugged? If someone can figure out the bug and how to reproduce it, it needs to be submitted to GitHub.
Here’s a reference to the feature, a fixed bug, disabling the deduplication for a single community view https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy-ui/issues/2104#issuecomment-2316048658
What about that issue do you think is causing less activity? Just people not wanting to engage as much because of the redundancy?
Yea, if people get too annoyed seeing the same story in 4 communities, I think eventually they consolidate down to one, and the fracturing reduces engagement across ALL the communities; a couple become ghost towns, etc. It’s a different sense of engagement to see 4 threads with 2-4 comments instead of seeing 1 with 20.
I’m trying to relate that to the experience back on Reddit, where the same thing happened. Didn’t seem to hinder growth. But often people would abandon the smaller versions of the communities for the larger ones.
Piefed has this with reposts
Its so nice.
mbin also will group multiple posts with the same link or the same title together. Occasionally, this means a months old post with the same (simple) title will show up, but I’m okay with that.
It does
The whole point of federation is a variety of moderation styles so it doesn’t really make sense to federate in comments from other communities because it would take away any identity that exists
I’m relatively new here, the only negative thing I notice is mods/creators reposting the same stuff every ~6-24 hours to make it ‘seem’ like there is more activity, which I think backfires more than not.
If you mean the “how is your day going so far” type of posts, I don’t think those are meant to be deceptive so much as to generate engagement by placing the post into people’s subscribed feeds.
But if you mean the same identical post, that’s not great - perhaps you want to unsubscribe from communities that do or even allow such practices.
I love the little personal threads. Im not sure if they exist on other platforms but its one of my favourite things about lemmy so far.
Yes I really like that too, it’s something that’s unusual on social media and is really nice. Gives a sense of community
Are you sure you arent seeing posts of the same community being hosted from other instances? Ive been here a while and havent seen any reposting within the same community of the same instance. (Or atleast not repetitively.)
Very possible, I have not dug in on this, just a vibe.
Oh, I haven’t noticed that.
I haven’t seen activity declining, but I have seen good quality posts declining I have been seeing more low quality posts recently
Usually whenever I want to make a post, I think back to the comments I typically receive and think better of doing so, then don’t.
I’m sure this is happening elsewhere too, e.g. on Reddit, though balanced by a much larger user base (and ofc bots doing a lot of the actual posting, and sometimes the commenting as well).
I probably should comment less often too:-). Really, touching grass and talking with people irl is much more fulfilling.
Naa, looks about the same. Im seeing more and more people step outside of lemmy though, this is nice. Theres a whole fediverse out there,go out and explore! And bring back cookies (and links)!
When I run out of stuff to see on Lemmy, I touch grass. Simple as.
I feel way more in control of my online experience when endless scrolling isn’t possible.
This is why I haven’t touched grass in a while. I see so much content on here than when I first started
This might seem like a clever way to say “sour grapes” to me. Saying that “little content is good because it avoids endless scrolling” is as weird as saying “living in the desert is good because it helps me control my diet”.
To address the point: activity seems very much slowed down, and we have two years since the Reddit “exodus” and very little progress to show. We are yet to convert any significant significant community, most people just accepted the status quo and you can bet that the few active people around here still rely on Reddit to find content and repost here.
Aside from this meta-discussion about Lemmy and the Fediverse, there is basically no native group or community emerging.
subbed.
https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/stats
Total posts by month appears fairly linear.
Yeah, OP. Ten million posts a month isn’t good enough for you?!?
Ten million and one would be better
It’s not 10 millions created during a month, it’s 10 millions existing posts at a certain month, whatever their creation date.
The actual number of posts per month would be the different between the total number of posts between two months.
Thank you, I had been looking for actual data and couldn’t find it. You’re right, does not seem to be declining.
I wonder if there an increasing percentage of bot posts, since I have prolific bot accounts blocked.
I wonder what’s up with that number of servers decline.
Also keep an eye on: https://piefed.fediverse.observer/stats A couple thousand people (and several communities) moved there after lemm.ee died, but we interact with lemmy.
As for why it subjectively seems to be declining… maybe you know what you’re gonna see in New, and so you engage less with posts? Maybe it’s time to be more of a poster!
I noticed on the redditalternatives subreddit whenever someone mentions Lemmy and someone else is like “I didnt like it because of XYZ” someone else will often say “you should look into Piefed its much better”
Which is funny to me but at least it’s working!
And if they don’t like PieFed then tell them to try Mbin next lol
As for why it subjectively seems to be declining… maybe you know what you’re gonna see in New, and so you engage less with posts?
I don’t think so. For ages (maybe two years) I’ll sometimes sit in bed in the morning and browse New until I hit the stuff I saw previously. That used to take me well over an hour - maybe two - but now it takes less than thirty minutes.
I feel like the corporate American need for exponential growth and for endless feeds of mindless scrollable content is, maybe, not what people are crying out for on the fediverse.
There are so, so many other platforms offering both. They got shit, because exponential growth and endless scrolling feeds only ever lead that way.
I’m happy with one little corner of the internet that doesn’t always need to pump up its numbers month on month, year on year, and where I can scroll for a bit then get bored and go back to the real world.
In fact, I seem to recall an awful lot of people saying that’s the only way to engage with the www and stay sane. Or at least, have a fighting chance.
Total Lemmy Active Users by Month
There’s a big spike during summer time. On reddit it was known as summer reddit. Basically all of the kids are out of school and have nothing better to do but shitpost online. Now they’re going back to school. It could be the lack of different users you’re noticing. Not sure why it dipped in July though, should have dipped in August.
Wasn’t July 1st when lemm.ee shut down?
Ah, good point. Forgot about that. That’s probably it.
The slight dip so far this month could be the beginning of the end of the summer Lemmy. Schools just started this week near me, and green is 30 day users so it should take 30 days for that to fully drop.
Yeah, agreed. Between lemm.ee closing leading to people moving over to Piefed in droves and Summer Lemmy coming to an end I don’t see anything concerning in the data I think.
Fediverse Observer says Piefed MAU were 352 in May, 1068 in June and 1615 in July. So thats a rise of ~1300 people in two months.
I wonder what’s up with that number of servers decline.
Consolidation? Which is fine to that extent.
I’d wager many experimented with hosting a younger Lemmy, and hosts who couldn’t sustain it got shaken out over time.
I wouldn’t assume the rise in posts/comments is all bots, either. I don’t have anyone blocked, and it doesn’t feel overrun to me.
Yeah, it would figure that if the activity is flat but the number of servers is declining that it’s either consolidation or that people are abandoning very small instances.
And activity is rising as far as I can tell, look at the graphs at the bottom.
Some of it had to do with there not being admins to go around afaik. Lemm.ee for instance couldn’t find enough admins so they shut down. Moderating an instance seems like one of the hurdles that go along with running an instance. I could imagine some people dipped out of Lemmy for a little while if their server was deleted since they’re starting from scratch again. It took me a good month or so to make this account and ramp back up my own activity here for instance.
The admins across the servers do a good job of keeping bots out imo. If it ever becomes a problem the admins could look to adopt BlueSky’s moderation tools down the line, I feel. As BlueSky makes it easy to filter bots, misinformation spreaders, and have user level content controls.
Looking at the more detailed breakdowns, it looks like there are a couple of servers (Lemmit.online, alien.top among others) with huge numbers of posts/comments that appear to be entirely bots. Are those counted in the stats? Could those be messing with the overall graphs? If Lemmit’s quarter of a million posts a month are counted, its going to make the monthly posts stat useless when even .world only has about 15k posts a month.
Edit: Comparing the graphs to the server list, it looks like Lemmit is counted, so the main graph is likely misleading. I did look through some of the bigger servers, and their rate of posting seemed fairly linear, but there isn’t a good way to check overall.
/thread
If i’m not mistaken, the very last graph showing posts by month shows a significant decreasing over the summer, or at least specifically july (since august is not over yet). It says June is around 12M posts and July around 9M. August seems already over 9M and we’re only 2/3 in, so maybe there was some drop around July for some reason, which could explain OP’s feeling.
As for the reason, i’m not sure, maybe a combination of factors like some server blocking access from UK with the latest privacy bullshit, some server having signficant downtime (i think slrpnk.net had a problem with servers locking themselves up while tech admin was abroad), and maybe non-Lemmy factors like holidays (though they don’t seem to impact previous years stats).
I would call that flat, not linear. Linear implies a non exponential increase. This looks flat.
I specifically said linear and not flat because it is a non-exponential increase.
You could say the rate of posts is flat, but the data series is posts, not rate of posts.
I don’t see much of an increase in those charts.
A couple million posts isn’t much?
I’m definitely bored of it.
Why?
Same, for me I think it’s because fediverse lacks… diversity
Barely any content, endless reposts, and the same content as found on other popular forums
I think these things oscillates a lot.
Perhaps the closure of Lemm.ee took away some of the quantity and variety of posts and communities?
