You must log in or register to comment.
Microsoft makes its money with Azure and M365 licenses for enterprise customers now.
Windows as a consumer operating system is a loss leader. The only reason it still exists is to breed familiarity with the MS ecosystem in all future employees.
This strategy works until a certain amount of really big businesses do the math and find out how many millions they can save each month by throwing their weight behind a Linux-based solution. Luckily for Microsoft, most CEOs and CTOs of these major corporations are forced by the shareholders to prioritize short term profit.
Rebuilding your infra and retraining your entire staff on a new ecosystem would be really expensive in the short term, even if it pays off in 5-10 years. And a high one-time cost is always harder to justify than a monthly amount that’s already budgeted into your operation costs.
So it’s still safer to stick to what you know, for now.No Microsoft is not doing that. They are trying to be in front of the curve. If they succeed to integrate ai into the os and be the first, they will win.
Guess you never heard of Cortana…
Cortana was late to the market and it’s functionality lagged way behind it’s competitors.
my point is that they had already integrated ai into the OS
Cortana isn’t AI…
Is copilot?
Copilot is creating metadata from images that could be used in “AI” applications. Cortana is just an “assistant” It’s nowhere near “AI” status and Microsoft “AI” (actually LLM) product is not specifically named like Google Bard, or OpenAI’s ChatGPT, but is integrated into Copilot and Bing (not Cortana specifically).
If you want to call an LLM “AI”… cool, none of that is in Cortana anyway. And Cortana is actually been outright killed at this point IIRC… although I don’t follow it that deeply.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cortana_(virtual_assistant)
Nothing from 2009 is going to have 2022 technology in it.On August 11, 2023, Microsoft updated the Cortana app in Windows, announcing it was deprecated and can no longer be used.
Wow cortana. What a comparison!
Lol
That they want to commit suicide is more plausible?
I was laughing at the idea that this is cutting edge and their intentions are to break new ground. Vs what it is: a brazen attempt to invade the fuck out of privacy for monetary gain
This is objectively cutting edge as this is in development and no less than of a field in which the most money and effort is put right now. Really the definition of cutting edge. Their inventions will also objectively and very obviously break new ground as there is no os that would have ai so integrated. There is no privacy invasion, not sure what your are taking about as nothing would be shared with anyone.
I think you must be extremely confused. Except about the monetary gain, but I hope we don’t have to talk about why companies exist.
There is no privacy invasion, not sure what your are taking about as nothing would be shared with anyone.
This is based on the claim that MS has made that they won’t access the data (hilarious) and the assumption that no one is getting hacked.
You sound like a fanboy.
You are completely irrational. You can’t think straight. That’s why you think something is funny, but then 1.4 billion users will use it and like it and then you will like it too. It’s so childish.
I’m not a fanboy. I’ve been a hater for 30 years. And for 30 years I’ve been dreaming of an os that could understand what I want. One that would predict my actions, perhaps do them instead of me. It’s insane it took so much time.
And now, finally when we are getting closer, people like you, who have already shared everything on blogs, fb, twitter, ig, discord, and all the shitty services imaginable, are complaining that this is an invasion of privacy. Is just insane. It’s so insane that I acknowledged you enough to talk to you. Immediately when you will see the minimum practicality of this, you will use it and think nothing of how you wrote you laugh at me (although we both know what’s up, don’t we).
Anyway. Bye.
Great argument… if that’s what you call that.
A lot of people are leaving windows, and each new feature seems to add to that. I’ve been avoiding windows every chance I’ve had for about 25 years myself.
Stay mad.
The HIPAA concerns are very alarming. And I agree with the spirit if the article. However, I’m not sure the article is correct when it says Recall cannot be disabled. I’ve already seen other articles telling you how to turn it off. The fact that it’s opt-out and nit opt-in is a huge issue, though.
The problem with it isn’t that MS says it can be disabled, because like everything MS does it breaks its own rules constantly. I have worked in HIPAA environments and making systems block potential MS systems is a constant cat and mouse game only accomplished by firewall appliances that don’t have MS software in them
Who the fuck is making a Firewall appliance with windows software on it. Some *nix or BSD or custom bare metal kernel is what a firewall should be. You have to have very low level access to properly secure traffic on a network. Microsoft often breaks the OSINT Framework ffs, I’d never trust them as a firewall.
I guess you haven’t used Azure much?
Hopefully not
I’m referring to Fortigate inside of azure, basically it’s a Fortigate but it is a VM on the azure hosts in your virtual space inside the azure cloud. The MS global network that is the Azure cloud systems is pretty cool in lots of ways. Just MS is an evil empire and it sucks that they drive the world
Actually it is more than a local problem. Since Recall shipped with opt-out, means every computer will have this enabled. Even if you truned it off, the computer on the other end may still capture your data.
Say you said something here, regret about and delete it, but right before a user have Recall enabled see it and can just dig out your now deleted comment. Not good. This applies to HIPAA data or not.
This is essentailly a local search engine that index everything you see and others said in near real time, without repecting
robots.txt.Yes, that is also a big problem. In general you should be very aware in online meetings / screen sharing to be very cautious and deliberate with what you show. That problem has burned a streamer or two. :) Having a boring vanilla “work machine” for that sort of thing is always a good idea. Windows Recall definitely makes this problem worse! You could be doing 100% legit professional ‘work stuff’ and it could still grab things that it shouldn’t (HIPAA and many other potentially sensitive bits of corporate data).
If you disable it, make sure to check on it regularly, as MS loves to turn things back on “for you” after Windows updates run. I’ve already seen some sysadmins saying they will run a scheduled task to make sure it stays dead.
No, it’s the opposite. Lack of innovation and failure to adapt to new technologies and new trends would be a way to commit suicide. Betteridge’s law applies here.
Recall specifically may be a misstep in its current form. But the overall drive to come up with applications for AI is not. it’s a reasonable strategy. You can’t call the whole thing a failure because one product has problems. Microsoft didn’t curl up and die after Windows ME, to use a more extreme example.
No they’re simply trying to emulate Google and Facebook by becoming data gatherers and hoarders. They’ve been jealous of how much data other companies have gathered about people, and then realized they could easily do the same.
I think you might be bit underestimating how much data Microsoft actually already has. They have just being better of keeping it to them self. MS from these three is the only one who is not an ad company, so they don’t have to sell the data to 3rd parties to be profitable. They can just hoard the data, bit like Amazon+AWS.
The new Recall feature they’re trying to push is creepy as fuck. No thanks.
Glad I moved to linux a few years ago so I don’t have to worry about any of this trash.
I think they are preparing to go full cloud soon. You can make much more when customers have to pay something like 29$ a month to use the operating system. At home or work there will be just a thin client left. And this recall database will be worth much more to harvest data when you have to store it on azure. I am sure this will come eventually. Storing it local is just the first step. Once the backslash is over and everyone is using it they will move the stuff to the cloud. “You will own nothing and be happy”.
Agreed, I see signs of this with on-premises Sharepoint and Exchange moving to a “subscription edition” for the next release. And then at some point years later they’ll just say “we’re not renewing subscription edition licenses, migrate to the cloud or else”.
“It worked for Adobe” is all the $min/max$ers see.
Microsoft knows that the addition of adds to Windows, Recall, data mining, etc are not suicide. As far as tech news goes, Lemmy really exists in an echo chamber. The vast majority of us at least have some interest in technology. For the majority of the population, though, this isn’t true. The typical person sees a computer as a tool to be used for other things. They’re not reading articles about the latest release of Windows, new CPU technology, the latest GPU, etc. They’re using their computer, and when it’s time for an upgrade, they buy whatever suits their needs.
If I was to ask any of my family, or most of my coworkers, about any of the latest “controversies” surrounding Microsoft, they would have no idea what I was talking about. Microsoft obviously thinks that the added profits gained by monetizing their customers will offset the loss of 1% of their users that switch to Linux. They’re probably right, too.
I like Windows, personally (well, Windows 10 at least). My unofficial rule has always been if it needs a GUI, then it runs Windows, otherwise, it runs Linux as a headless machine. Once Windows 10 is no longer a viable option, my unofficial rule will be “it runs Linux.” Most people will not make this switch.
But you’re ignoring the entire enterprise side of things. MS Recall + pervasive data mining and ad injections are things that the vast majority of IT departments are going to refuse to sign off on. These technologies meaningfully and fundamentally undermine organizational and system security, up to and including potential inadvertent exposure of cryptographic secrets, which the modern internet is basically built on top of.
Sure, consumers are likely going to acquiesce out of either laziness or ignorance. But IT orgs aren’t going to simply sign off on this - particularly if they’re operating in an industry where InfoSec really matters (basically, any regulated industry like medical, biotech, or aerospace).
There is a huge corporate insensitive that everyone is not realizing here. By screen recording + OCR, there is a possibility to start using this data to replace some labor intensive, but simple tasks of operating a business. If you can create RPA+ML+LLM that can rerun repetitive tasks, you have holy grail on your hands. I think this is one of the big reason why M$ is pushing this.
I assume to be down voted to oblivion, but I do business automation and integration for living, and at the same time I am scared and excited.
I was thinking about this, but I don’t know what the plan us for annotating new flows with descriptions of the actions. There’s no point in learning how to send an email or open a webpage, that’s already easy. The value is in a database of uncommon interactions, but it’s only valuable if there is a description to train on.
Lmao do you have any idea how quickly that’s going to go off the rails? They’re going to get into a hallucination feedback loop, which will destroy the integrity of their systems and processes, and they’ll richly deserve it.
At any rate, most highly-effective technical teams have already automated the shit out of all their rote operations without using ML.
Absolutely. Corporations - at least, shitty ones (most of them) - are absolutely salivating at using this. They want to be able to see and easily summarize eeeeeeverything you’re doing.
Some are absolutely already using a form of this. It’s not a hypothetical - this is currently happening and many want way way more.
Automation suites exist and they are very much tuned to the individual apps. It seems giving ML an OCR readout of a page is not enough for it to know what it should do (accurately). We have had a training set for “booking flights on a browser” for about 6 years now and no one has figured out how to have it disrupt automated testing: https://miniwob.farama.org/
Are they? Some IT departments are going to love the invasive nature of it.
Then those IT departments should be blackballed from the industry, because the nature of that invasive surveillance is WILDLY insecure.
Will they not have licenses with all of this shit stripped out? Maybe another way to force ITs to pay for proper licensing and stuff too 🧐
Perhaps, but at this point, the only ones who actually know the endgame strategy are product people at MS, and they’re almost certainly bound by NDAs on that topic.
Unfortunately most large organizations are running on enterprise releases that only lay down minimal software. Plus IT depts have heavily maintained images that immediately shuts off anything that sneaks in. Help desk is just going to disable the feature before slapping the company background image and VPN on it and giving it to standard users. They will make a ton of money in the short term and EOL the operating system when it’s no longer profitable and Linux is the default (decades from now). AOL is still out there
They didn’t have it set up to be easily disable-able, as far as I understand it.
They’ll just keep it shut off. It’s not a requirement.
They’re using their computer, and when it’s time for an upgrade, they buy whatever suits their needs.
This always weirded me out - people who don’t have any investment into Windows in the form of understanding are the most reluctant to even think about switching. I understand “advanced users” with their trusty FAR or TC and in general workflow which didn’t change much in 20 years. But people who only use a browser?..
I think it’s actually a rhetorical problem on my side. There’s been a few cases where people (normies at that) who’d be utterly intolerant to the idea of leaving Windows switched to Linux on their own without my help in the periods where I wasn’t meeting them often. It’s as if my attempts to proselytize were counterproductive.
That’s partially true. The non-tech-savvy friends and family though need us to fix their Windows machines more or less constantly, and at some point we’re not going to.
For me it was about 10 years ago when I forced everyone on to Mac at gunpoint just because I couldn’t do Windows any.more. And even then it was another 6 years of explaining the differences in macOS and troubleshooting “office”. Now when a friend’s co-worker has a “computer problem” (read: Windows) I just say ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and I gotta tell ya it’s friggin sweet.
You wouldn’t tell that to your grandma in her late 80s, who, unlike some grandmas, is utterly computer-illiterate, can only click pictures in Windows, doesn’t understand even that TBH, and won’t in that age learn anything new.
Then there’s a question of whether you’ll tell that to a girl with warm smile, long brown hair and luminous eyes if the situation arises.
Then there’s that friend whose ‘computer problem’ prevents him from playing Factorio with you.
Life is more complex.
That’s always been my policy. I never used apples so I gave a big 'ol shrug if that’s what needed fixing.
Once I get more comfortable with Linux, I’ll be giving the same shrug to windows troubleshooting.
Daily use of Linux & MacOS is virtually identical. Same terminal commands. Similar file system standards. You have homebrew as a package manager on MacOS. You use whatever comes with your distro on Linux (dnf, apt-get, I forget the arch Linux one. Yaort? Yum?)
Really I see no reason for anyone to stay on Windows. You can play 99% of games on Linux these days. I’m not exaggerating, it’s very specific multi-player games that don’t work.
Maybe if you use specific software for a niche industry or purpose then it’s worth having Linux. But even in those cases, you can just use a VM.
That’s what I do on my MacBook pro. I have a VM with windows just to run a specific program a couple times a week.
On my desktop at home I just use Linux and have for the last 10 years or so
one can only hope!
Microsoft wants to lock up business dollars while the AI feeding frenzy is still fresh.
They do not care about any other markets or segments, which is why their products are getting so bad so fast for literally everyone else.
They are too big and the corporate contracts are too ingrained in society. They won’t lose anything meaningful over these terrible anti-consumer decisions because they don’t care about individual consumers. As long as the bigger ticket contracts are in place, their income is totally safe.
Because CoPilot+ is purportedly trained on what users actually do, it looked plausible to someone in marketing at Microsoft that it could deliver on “help the users get stuff done”. Unfortunately, human beings assume that LLMs are sentient and understand the questions they’re asked, rather than being unthinking statistical models that cough up the highest probability answer-shaped object generated in response to any prompt, regardless of whether it’s a truthful answer or not.
Hehehe.
I’ve thought this ever since Windows 8 (and when I went from dual-boot to Linux only). In retrospect, at least Ballmer treated Windows like a PC operating system.
Ever since Nadella took over, it seems like MS is trying to turn Windows into ChromeOS but for Microsoft’s cloud services. Pretty sure they want PCs to be thin clients tied to subscriptions. No fucking thanks.
Windows 8! Haha! Ahh, I’d call it the “New Coke” of Windows but that probably wouldn’t help anyone who wasn’t there.
You know it’s bad when ballmer seems to be the rational person
Oh, absolutely lol. Definitely one of those cases where you didn’t know what you had until it’s gone.
I’m flummoxed for sure. I need a computer to be a bit of a power house, ideally well equipped for music production software and live performance, DJ software, graphic design/animation/illustration, and at least for the desktop gaming. Been in the market for a laptop so I can take at least the music & design production on the go, but damn I hate laptop shopping.
Unsuuuure if Linux is compatible with the graphic/music production software I’m working with, or if there are viable work arounds. Windows 11 looks like a dumpster fire I do not wish to support. I’d really like to avoid Apple as I have my own grievances there too. Windows 10 obviously seems on the way out.
Long story long, feeling a bit lost on how best to proceed. If anyone uses Linux for similar creative endeavors, would love to hear your roses and thorns on the matter. Certainly open to recommendations for a sturdy war horse of a lappy as well.
I’m running REAPER and some outboard gear GUIs on Nobara Linux with no issues so far. VSTs run thanks to yabridge and Lutris/WINE handles the GUI stuff. I bet you’ll be able to migrate without too much trouble.
Unsuuuure if Linux is compatible with the graphic/music production software I’m working with, or if there are viable work arounds.
I have no idea about music production but ardour is linux-native and the technical backend stuff is definitely there (you’ll want to use jack in real-time mode to hook everything up and together). Graphics-wise if you can do what you want to do with blender and/or krita you’re also set. You’ll be able to sync up blender and ardour via jack. Dunno about video editing blender has always been sufficient for me and I already know it. There’s also plenty of more coding-oriented music stuff, have some live-coded music.
absurdity of the article aside, the premise of it ignores the fact that probably about 95% of their audience doesn’t care about this issue.
