There has certainly been a lot, but my gut still says China or maybe Soviet Union.
It really depends on how far back you are going and what criteria you’re using to ascribe responsibility for any given type of death.
For example, if a CCP guard kills a Uyghur prisoner in one of the camps that’s obviously a death under the CCP, but if China creates an economic crisis in some country via its Belt and Road debt colonialism campaign and someone there subsequently dies due to hardship stemming from those economic issues is the CCP responsible?
However, this claim is completely absurd when you stop and think about it even for a minute. That figure 1 million is repeated again and again. Let’s just look at how much space would you actually need to intern one million people.
This is a photo of Rikers Island, New York City’s biggest prison. The actual size of a facility interning ten thousand people.
According to Wikipedia, “The average daily inmate population on the island is about 10,000, although it can hold a maximum of 15,000.” Let’s assume this is a Xinjiang detention camp, holding ten to fifteen thousand people. How many of these would it take to hold one million people?
Let’s do some math:
Rikers Size
Rikers Prisoners
One Million Uyghurs Size
413.2 acres (0.645 square miles)
10,000 to 15,000
43 to 64 square miles
In reality, one million people would probably take more space; all the supposed detention camps we see are much less dense than Rikers.
For comparison, San Francisco is 47 square miles. Amsterdam is 64 square miles. You’d literally need detention camps that total the size of San Francisco or Amsterdam to intern one million Uyghurs. It’d be like looking at a map of California. There’s Los Angeles. There’s San Diego. And look, there’s San Francisco Concentration City with its one million Uyghurs.
Practically all the stories we see about China trace back to Adrian Zenz is a far right fundamentalist nutcase and not a reliable source for any sort of information. The fact that he’s the primary source for practically every article in western media demonstrates precisely what I’m talking about when I say that coverage is divorced from reality.
Along with his “mission” against China, heavenly guidance has apparently prompted Zenz to denounce homosexuality, gender equality, and the banning of physical punishment against children as threats to Christianity.
The fact that this nutcase is being paraded as a credible researcher on the subject is absolutely surreal, and it’s clear that the methodology of his “research” doesn’t pass any kind of muster when examined closely.
It’s also worth noting that there is a political angle around the narrative around Xinjiang. For example, here’s George Bush’s chief of staff openly saying that US wants to destabilize the region, and NED recently admitting to funding Uyghur separatism for the past 16 years on their own official Twitter page. An ex-CIA operative details US operations radicalizing and training terrorists in the region in this book. Here’s an excerpt:
It’s also worth noting that the accusations originate entirely from the west while Muslim majority countries support China, and their leaders have visited Xinjiang many times.
More than the US? The country that maintained slaves for many generations, on land taken from slaughteted and genocided indigenous peoples? The country that is to this day actively supporting genocide purely to protect its economic interests via Imperialism?
I’d think so, yeah, the CCP alone has pretty insane numbers, which is saying a lot.
You have to keep in mind that there’s something like a million Uighurs in China that got scooped up and put in concentration camps 2010s. There’s Tianamen, Tibet, the purges during Xi’s rise to power, the brutalization of HK and the literal millions dead under Mao through both intentional acts to purge the party and punish dissidents and simply the incompetance of the the failed economic theories.
Millions of people died in China during the Great Leap, with estimates ranging from 15 to 55 million, making the Great Chinese Famine the largest or second-largest[1] famine in human history.
[Wiki]
Pretty high number, and that’s not even counting anything more contemporary.
Beginning in 2014, the Chinese government, under the administration of Chinese Communist Party (CCP) General Secretary Xi Jinping, incarcerated more than an estimated one million Turkic Muslims without any legal process in internment camps. Operations from 2016 to 2021 were led by Xinjiang CCP Secretary Chen Quanguo.[2] It is the largest-scale detention of ethnic and religious minorities since World War II.
[Wiki]
So, yes, the genocide in Gaza is criminal, no less egregious or evil and those committing or supporting it should be brought before a tribunal, but they’re still rookie numbers compared to the CCP. Even if you go all the way back to the Nakba. There’s simply no way around it.
If you’re going to act morally outraged about the US, you can’t then just skip over China because it’s politically uncomfortable. Xi had execution vans ffs.
Countless more. Do I really need to go on to illustrate just how evil the American Empire is, and why pulling a whataboutism to distract from this might be seen as insensitive?
I generally agree with you, but honestly, pro-China and pro-Soviet users talking about American deaths is whataboutism itself. I’m not saying they shouldn’t, but it’s rather glaring how much they avoid their own missteps.
Where was China or the USSR mentioned on this post? Purely in the comments section, and purely to assert that the US’s crimes are not as bad.
This post isn’t saying that the PRC and the USSR have never performed crimes. It isn’t avoiding their missteps, the purpose of this post is to talk about by far the worst Empire. Saying that the PRC and USSR also have committed atrocities only serves to minimize US atrocities here.
You’re right, this post is about America, and I don’t want to diminish what they’ve done. But if one wants to criticise, one opens thselves up to criticism. Glass houses and all that. In that vein, the OP seems to have a very limited set of topics, and if you remove criticisms of capitalism and America, he doesn’t seem to have much to say at all. It makes you wonder if they have an agenda, or if they’re even an actual person at all.
There has certainly been a lot, but my gut still says China or maybe Soviet Union.
It really depends on how far back you are going and what criteria you’re using to ascribe responsibility for any given type of death.
For example, if a CCP guard kills a Uyghur prisoner in one of the camps that’s obviously a death under the CCP, but if China creates an economic crisis in some country via its Belt and Road debt colonialism campaign and someone there subsequently dies due to hardship stemming from those economic issues is the CCP responsible?
The whole conspiracy theory started with a claim of millions of Uyghurs being supposedly imprisoned story is based on two highly dubious “studies.”.
However, this claim is completely absurd when you stop and think about it even for a minute. That figure 1 million is repeated again and again. Let’s just look at how much space would you actually need to intern one million people.
This is a photo of Rikers Island, New York City’s biggest prison. The actual size of a facility interning ten thousand people.
According to Wikipedia, “The average daily inmate population on the island is about 10,000, although it can hold a maximum of 15,000.” Let’s assume this is a Xinjiang detention camp, holding ten to fifteen thousand people. How many of these would it take to hold one million people?
Let’s do some math:
In reality, one million people would probably take more space; all the supposed detention camps we see are much less dense than Rikers.
For comparison, San Francisco is 47 square miles. Amsterdam is 64 square miles. You’d literally need detention camps that total the size of San Francisco or Amsterdam to intern one million Uyghurs. It’d be like looking at a map of California. There’s Los Angeles. There’s San Diego. And look, there’s San Francisco Concentration City with its one million Uyghurs.
Literally visible to the naked eye from space.
CHRD states that it interviewed dozens of ethnic Uyghurs in the course of its study, but their enormous estimate was ultimately based on interviews with exactly eight Uyghur individuals. Based on this absurdly small sample of research subjects in an area whose total population is 20 million, CHRD “extrapolated estimates” that “at least 10% of villagers […] are being detained in re-education detention camps, and 20% are being forced to attend day/evening re-education camps in the villages or townships, totaling 30% in both types of camps.” Furthermore, it doesn’t even make sense from logistics perspective.
Practically all the stories we see about China trace back to Adrian Zenz is a far right fundamentalist nutcase and not a reliable source for any sort of information. The fact that he’s the primary source for practically every article in western media demonstrates precisely what I’m talking about when I say that coverage is divorced from reality.
Zenz is a born-again Christian who lectures at the European School of Culture and Theology. This anodyne-sounding campus is actually the German base of Columbia International University, a US-based evangelical Christian seminary which considers the “Bible to be the ultimate foundation and the final truth in every aspect of our lives,” and whose mission is to “educate people from a biblical worldview to impact the nations with the message of Christ.”
Zenz’s work on China is inspired by this biblical worldview, as he recently explained in an interview with the Wall Street Journal. “I feel very clearly led by God to do this,” he said. “I can put it that way. I’m not afraid to say that. With Xinjiang, things really changed. It became like a mission, or a ministry.”.
Along with his “mission” against China, heavenly guidance has apparently prompted Zenz to denounce homosexuality, gender equality, and the banning of physical punishment against children as threats to Christianity.
Zenz outlined these views in a book he co-authored in 2012, titled Worthy to Escape: Why All Believers Will Not Be Raptured Before the Tribulation. In the tome, Zenz discussed the return of Jesus Christ, the coming wrath of God, and the rise of the Antichrist.
The fact that this nutcase is being paraded as a credible researcher on the subject is absolutely surreal, and it’s clear that the methodology of his “research” doesn’t pass any kind of muster when examined closely.
It’s also worth noting that there is a political angle around the narrative around Xinjiang. For example, here’s George Bush’s chief of staff openly saying that US wants to destabilize the region, and NED recently admitting to funding Uyghur separatism for the past 16 years on their own official Twitter page. An ex-CIA operative details US operations radicalizing and training terrorists in the region in this book. Here’s an excerpt:
US has been stoking terrorism in the region while they’ve been running a propaganda campaign against China in the west. In fact, US even classified Uyghur separatists as a terrorist group at one point https://www.mintpressnews.com/us-was-at-war-uyghur-terrorists-now-claims-etim-doesnt-exist/276916/
Here’s an interview with a son of imam killed in Xinjiang https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-06-19/Son-of-imam-assassinated-in-Kashgar-s-2014-mosque-attack-speaks-out-RqNiyrcRuo/index.html
Here’s an account from a Pakistani journalist who has been all over Xinjiang (which borders Pakistan) claims that western media reports on “atrocities” are lies. https://dailytimes.com.pk/723317/exposing-the-occidents-baseless-lies-about-xinjiang/
It’s also worth noting that the accusations originate entirely from the west while Muslim majority countries support China, and their leaders have visited Xinjiang many times.
Also notable that whenever western media actually deigns to visit Xinjiang, which is not often, they’re unable to produce support for any of their claims of mass imprisonment and oppression, so they opt for insinuations instead https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-lifestyle-china-health-travel-7a6967f335f97ca868cc618ea84b98b9
There’s a further list of debunking here if you’re interested https://redsails.org/the-xinjiang-atrocity-propaganda-blitz/
The whole thing is very clearly a propaganda blitz that US is cynically using to manipulate impressionable people in the west.
More than the US? The country that maintained slaves for many generations, on land taken from slaughteted and genocided indigenous peoples? The country that is to this day actively supporting genocide purely to protect its economic interests via Imperialism?
I’d think so, yeah, the CCP alone has pretty insane numbers, which is saying a lot.
You have to keep in mind that there’s something like a million Uighurs in China that got scooped up and put in concentration camps 2010s. There’s Tianamen, Tibet, the purges during Xi’s rise to power, the brutalization of HK and the literal millions dead under Mao through both intentional acts to purge the party and punish dissidents and simply the incompetance of the the failed economic theories.
You may want to look at the actual numbers, rather than relying on vibes.
Pretty high number, and that’s not even counting anything more contemporary.
So, yes, the genocide in Gaza is criminal, no less egregious or evil and those committing or supporting it should be brought before a tribunal, but they’re still rookie numbers compared to the CCP. Even if you go all the way back to the Nakba. There’s simply no way around it.
If you’re going to act morally outraged about the US, you can’t then just skip over China because it’s politically uncomfortable. Xi had execution vans ffs.
I’m not skipping over China. You’re getting upset that someone is correctly calling out the United States.
Genocide of Indigenous Americans resulted in 4-8 million murders.
American slavery resulted in dozens of millions of deaths and forced labor.
The entirety of Iraqi infrastructurw returned to pre-industrial levels specifically to make the Iraqi state more liable to respond to US Demands on false pretenses.
260 million bombs dropped on Laos on mere suspicions of pro-Communist activity.
Hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese civilians murdered via napalm, agent orange, and raw gunfire.
Unwavering support for Ethnic Cleansing of Palestinians via a genocidal Aparthied regime
Many massacres of both North and South Koreans during the Korean War, installing a far-right dictator in the Republic of Korea who murdered his own citizens regularly
Unwavering support for a fascist, slave-owning regime in Cuba to protect US interests
Countless more. Do I really need to go on to illustrate just how evil the American Empire is, and why pulling a whataboutism to distract from this might be seen as insensitive?
I generally agree with you, but honestly, pro-China and pro-Soviet users talking about American deaths is whataboutism itself. I’m not saying they shouldn’t, but it’s rather glaring how much they avoid their own missteps.
Where was China or the USSR mentioned on this post? Purely in the comments section, and purely to assert that the US’s crimes are not as bad.
This post isn’t saying that the PRC and the USSR have never performed crimes. It isn’t avoiding their missteps, the purpose of this post is to talk about by far the worst Empire. Saying that the PRC and USSR also have committed atrocities only serves to minimize US atrocities here.
You’re right, this post is about America, and I don’t want to diminish what they’ve done. But if one wants to criticise, one opens thselves up to criticism. Glass houses and all that. In that vein, the OP seems to have a very limited set of topics, and if you remove criticisms of capitalism and America, he doesn’t seem to have much to say at all. It makes you wonder if they have an agenda, or if they’re even an actual person at all.