It feel like we’re losing to Google, day by day. They aren’t killing AOSP directly, but they are making it useless step by step.
Now it’s Google Play Services, Play Integrity checks, installation source checks… more and more apps just refuse to run without GMS. Banking apps? Most of them don’t work. And it’s only getting worse. I run vanilla AOSP on my main profile, no Play Services. I keep GMS only in my work profile for the apps that absolutely need it. But now even some regular apps that don’t need any play services won’t work on my main profile anymore. They simply block your from running , like le chat.
Maps is google’s most important app there is no way to run without play services. Sure we can use webview or gmaps wv, but they don’t provide turn-by-turn directions. Earlier maps used to work without play services, but two years ago, an update stopped it from working. Now that old version is out of date and no longer works.
Google is slowly making GMS very important to run. The problem with GMS is they require to run as system app and has to have all the permissions by default.
Hope EU puts pressure to make google allow apps to run independently without GMS or atleast install them as user apps(like graphene os sandboxed play services).
If we keep going on like this, AOSP can only run fdroid apps in the future.
It is only slightly on topic, but I’d like to give a hateful shout out to Ticketmaster/Live Nation’s new “mobile only” ticketed events that require you to have an iPhone or fully Google blessed Android phone. They do not allow you to use a QR code or printed ticket anymore, only their app with a constantly changing bare code or Google wallet (unsure of the IOS experience).
I am going to a concert this weekend and I either have to dig up some old phone that can work with this app or sell my tickets.
I’ve never had an issue loading my tickets in the browser.
Then you weren’t at one of the new “mobile only” ticket events. https://help.ticketmaster.com/hc/en-us/articles/9786597785617-How-do-I-use-Mobile-Entry-tickets
Someone rectnly crack their shit code. Can use offline app after extract secret once. Will link once find.
Thanks, that might be a handy workaround.
Boop, source found.
Thanks!
Just go to the box office when you get there and present an ID that matches the name the tickets were purchased under. Depending on the venue, they will either print your ticket or text you a link that opens a page in your browser that can be scanned.
Everything I’ve read is that they only offer accommodations to people during time of purchase, and even then you’re basically at the mercy of the venue. I’m going to call them and see what I can do, but I don’t have high hopes.
I stopped going. Fuck it. Not giving in to their bullshit.
That’s how I’m feeling I will go after this concert since they already have my money.
The local folks probably deserve tye attendance more anyway. So many nepo babies…
It was the fees for me. Their CEO needs to be Luigi’d for leading a parasitic company that has made so many music venues go under.
I’ve been quietly boycotting them for over 13 years now, shortly after online scalpers started having their field day with their sites. It sucks not being able to go to any major shows but I have made myself compromise by going to small local shows only and it hasn’t been that bad.
Everyone votes with their wallets, so as long as people keep paying, they’ll keep making us jump through more and more hoops.
So messed up that they too are the scalpers. A band I liked put pressure on them and managed to catch them in their bullshit, but that is rare.
Of the largest android sellers, only samsung requires gplay. Xiaomi, vivo, oppo, realme, honor, are all chinese companies that require non-bundled google play for their domestic (and maybe other countries?) releases. Google can’t alienate these sellers, and if they did, all of these company’s would create their own AOSP fork.
I recently bought a xiaomi android tablet that doesn’t have google play services luckily.
If the goal is too swap one parasite for another, this is a valid strategy BUT
Custom ROM is the only proper solution, ideally GrapheneOS, if you actually care about security and privacy.
Xiaomi is terrible when it comes to locked bootloaders unfortunately.
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I keep my old smartphone precisely so I can install banking apps and other annoyances.
Feel free to track the burner phone that stays on the same location, turns on once a week, is got tape on the cameras and never uses the browser.
I use Shelter to enable the work profile. It permits to copy apps between standard and work profile. So it is possible to have google services (with an account set I mean) in the work profile.
Apps like for Banks can’t be copied though. But most of the others can.
Maps?
Use OsmAnd and MagicEarth? I’ve been doping it for years now. Works fine.
Also Theres comaps
I enjoy Organic Maps.
Comaps is the fork, we moved away from organic maps. You will find basically the same experience.
Comaps has been awesome for me
Run as many open source apps as you can is about the best option. Also, OSMAND does provide turn-by-turn directions.
What it does not do well is street addresses, so at times you may find that you have to use the GPS coordinates of the place you are going to in order to get directions.
It’s never had any trouble with street addresses for me. It’s using open street map so if there are addresses that aren’t right you can submit changes.
Where it has trouble for me is on long trips over great distances. If you ask it to route a 6-hour trip to another state through a couple of metropolitan areas It has a pretty good chance of sending you a non-optimal route.
I’ve found that it can get you to businesses fairly well. where I have seen failures is navigating to an individual’s home address. What you can do is you can get the nearby intersection of two roads fairly easily, but the home address is much more difficult.
You can stop using Google and Apple… It’s that simple. But it seems that you, like many other, want their cake and eat it too…
Sure but what’s a viable alternative for normies? It would be simple if a viable alternative existed. For normies, I reiterate.
It’s to do the grass root movement, and get enough to demand it, for a provider to feel the need to expand their customer base that way…
Normies don’t care about that. They care about WhatsApp, Instagram and tiktoks.
Until they don’t… and please don’t call then normies, when they really are manipulated…
Normie is not an insult or derogatory. It just means “normal person”, who is usually not very tech savy.
Most Normies don’t care about privacy. They know, accept and are ok with their data being collected and sold in “free” services.
Some countries allow the corpos to lock your device down when you delete it, and they have collaborated with the providers to disallow Open Source OS alternatives like Lineage. The only way I know of is to get a Pixel, which is still owned by Google, and then I think only one provider allows the after market OS to function on network. For those of us entering a dictatorship gov, it really sucks.
Well, then there’s a market for someone to crack…
If only there was someone that could afford as much lobbying as Google and Apple, we would have another parasite that was just as bad. Lets just get CB radios. Maybe morse code. God, what a shit show. This country is so fucked.
I believe it depends more on people-power, than on their wealth. That’s why they spend so much money on lobbying - it’s a testament to how scared they are.
I dont know if that indicates that theyre scared, its just part of the maintenance cost of their empires
You don’t spend money on something that you don’t get profit from. That’s just plain logic. They know, if they don’t keep spending money here, some politician would end their monopoly.
Of course. Im just saying i dont believe theyre scared because they know they will continue to have more than enough money for lobbying. Its probably very cheap in comparison to what they get out if it. Any business has necessary maintenance costs
Quite a comfortable way to do this is with grapheneOS. That really gives you a choice. Can’t say much about each and every app, how they run. Although most of my usage hasn’t changed much with grapheneOS as I changed from gsm-free custom ROMs. Works quite good with a nextcloud.
It’s different for every one, but for me it would mean, I can’t use Microsoft authenticator, so I can’t do my job anymore, as it is required to access my mail, teams, files, logging worked hours, etc etc.
I can’t use any of my bank apps anymore, I can’t use my phone anymore for paying in a store or checking in public transportation.
And many more apps that would stop working.
Tell your employer to provide you a corpo phone.
You shouldn’t be using personal device for anything related to your job imho
I do freelance work, so they would just tell me to get it myself. But I really don’t want to have multiple phones. In don’t use teams or mail on my phone anyway, only the authenticator apps (we have multiple).
That’s fair.
how is that even possible?
How it’s possible to stop using google or apple? By doing it…
You have accurately identified a major part of the problem. Many people are unwilling to change their habits, or don’t have the patience to learn new tools.
The other element though is time, many people don’t have the time to stop and learn. Especially when a problem like privacy is a lot less immediate than hunger or healthcare.
But the frustration among people are also growing, and that should be used/channeled to make a change.
sure, am i supposed to live without a smartphone?
So, do enlighten me, beside the fact that you are obviously addicted to the smartphone, how will your life be worse without privacy?
PS. Does anyone chase something for the sake of something else? That sounded a little silly…
surveillance capitalism already makes our lives worse. also who told you i’m using phones because i’m addicted, do you not use a phone?
PS: yes, that’s why people do things at all.
ITT: no one has an idea.
hint: class war. there’s a reason they are tightening the surveillance.
Maybe postmarketOS?
Mainline linux on mobile is solving this problem as we speak: https://postmarketos.org/
I expect a full collapse of the Google Android behemoth about the same time we get Half Life 3.
i reaaallyyy want this project to be amazing. We need a lot more device support though for that to happen.
For banking, I use the website instead of the application. I have very few non-open-source applications left on my phone.
in my country they won’t let you do that without at least the proprietary 2fa on your phone. and that of course needs play integrity in 90% of cases.
I was upset about Duo authenticator when I found out someone made a workaround that lets you export the secrets to a normal totp app. I can only hope you have some project like that for your situation
Real question is
Why can’t a rooted android fake play services?
If they really had interest in stopping you they could definitely stop you. That’s the direction they’re heading with all of these apps that are doing the integrity check. It’s just a matter of time that it’ll take for them to do it gradually enough not to make everything backward compatible explode.
Microg and stuff like that are probably on their way out within the next few generations.
When postmarket finally manages to reverse engineer the modems and the voice and support something with a half decent camera I’ll readily leave the ecosystem.
Afaik this is possible, but the banking apps don’t like rooting either. No achievement there.
why can’t we sandboxing them in a goody two-shoes kind of environment?
idk, maybe the app wants to check if it runs on normal phone hardware, not some reverse engineering virtualization? Or something like: if the OS is verified and unrooted, no secrets get out?
Funny thing is I can use banking grapheneOS phone and the main Health insurance app, but not the Health Insurance TeleDoc-App. Personally I think apps that need GSM or at least be officially google boot verified are apps made by lazy morons, but that’s just a guess.
that’s exactly it, what i’m questioning though is why can’t we make a virtualized environment that can fool these apps since they all use the same api and are all ‘lazy’ in their implementation (not all of them though).
Apps check if Google says this device is stock and original. Booting alternative OSes is allowed but frowned upon. And of course doesn’t get a Google approval signature. Something like that. Basically programmers not wanting to make the checking themselves and relying on Google to tell them what devices are “secure”.
There are a million maps apps, even google itself has two (Waze). Banking is easily accessible thru a web browser. Also, rooting your phone gives you ability to fake a lot of the requirements to make stubborn apps run.
I am sorry I tried many many maps apps, but none come close enough to replace google maps completely. No reviews, photos, live traffic, raw data etc. Google maps is truly miles ahead of the alternatives, especially in India.
But why do you need it all in one app? As you’ve noted, there are alternatives like GMaps WV that deliver all the other stuff. Combine that with any other navigation app and you have everything Google Maps delivers, without relying on its app.
These questions 🤣
Because it’s easier and it works better.
tHeSe qUeStIoNs
It was one question, and it’s a relevant one. If you are worried about Google cutting support for Google Maps on AOSP, the solution is not to double down on the Google ecosystem. There’s not going to be some magical perfect replacement for Google Maps out of nowhere, the only way it’s competitors improve is if people use them.
If you don’t want to, that’s fine, just don’t start crying when Google pulls support out from under you.
Idk about India but here in the Netherlands almost all google reviews are fake. They’re not a good indicator of quality.
True, but the pictures are useful though. I can tell a decent pizza from a shite one from a picture.
Photos and streetview are the most important features for me, otherwise I would be 10x more anxious going somewhere for the first time.
It’s easier and nicer. But it’s also shitty because of what you mentioned.
The thing is, that’s how it’s going to stay unless people stop using it. You can get this info you mentioned somewhere else, or simply don’t need it, as I said, yes it’s harder and less nice to live without it, but it’s not like you can’t live without live traffic data or whatever. Start using CoMaps, contribute to open street map, leave reviews on other review aggregators, etc etc
There’s many navigation apps that have traffic, like Magic Earth which 100% runs without GMS.
For review you can use gmaps wv or TripAdvisor.
Here We Go has traffic and TripAdvisor integration, but I’m not sure whether it runs without GMS.
I can’t speak to any other countries, but in the states, Magic Earth has been great for me. Been using it for over two years now, several different regions of the USA. It’s not as good as Google Maps, but it’s plenty good enough for my needs.
Navigation and routing is solid, traffic data is acceptable, and the dashcam feature is awesome.
CoMaps has it on the docket to add opt in traffic at some point.
What is a good alternative that actually does navigation and searches on places as well as gmaps? I’ve been using OsmAnd and it’s absolutely dogshit compared to it. Even the navigation, the arguably most important part, is pretty bad.
Co maps is mostly garbage for places. Is missing my Wegmans for fucks sake 🤣
Just a heads up for your continued testing.
CoMaps uses OpenStreetMap data, which is populated by the public, so you can fix your problem easily yourself by submitting the data you need that’s missing.
You can do this right from inside CoMaps, but also StreetComplete is another great app option for doing so.
I’ve done this for missing stuff in my area, my edits got verified and accepted very quickly. It’s much nicer than waiting for Google to maybe update their shit when it’s wrong.
Go ahead and contribute places you are missing to openstreetmaps.
And I have the oppositie experience. I find gmaps routing much too agressive. Agree on the search issue.
I’m not sure what you mean by “aggressive routing”?
Gmaps often tries to be clever and recommends you to go off the main road onto some smaller one. This might be ok in USA but where I live its annoying at best. OsmAnd is much better in this regard.
I’m in Scandinavia and haven’t had issues with gmaps routing. The routing of OsmAnd is fine, but the navigation visualization is insanely bad, when you turn your phone horizontal they fill the whole screen with basically useless blank bars both at the top and bottom instead of just showing the map and turn-by-turn instructions in a corner like gmaps. That combined with the less than useless searching (if you don’t know the specific address of a place you’re pretty much SOoL) makes it really bad IME.
if you don’t know the specific address of a place you’re pretty much SOoL
Look the address up and put it into the map app…problem solved.
Yes but that’s the nuisance you don’t want with an application specifically made to make navigation easier. I want good simple workflows, not shitty clunky workarounds.
It does it in the US as well, and I find it infuriating. Especially when many of it’s “shortcuts” are worse for reasons that its algorithm doesn’t detect, like major pot holes, heavy pedestrian traffic, lack of visible street signs, etc.
Banking is easily accessible thru a web browser
Until your bank 2nd factor requires google play services and all the banks in your country have the same requirement.
Yeah, that’s my case as well with my main bank. So I have a separate phone that remains off until I need it (and some other crappy apps for electricity, customs and other stuff). Otherwise I’m still rocking my trusty Pixel 8 Pro running on GrapheneOS from day 1. Now, it is highly likely that, from Pixel 10 and in GrapheneOS won’t be able to keep developing (I certainly hope I’m wrong), so I’m thinking on switching my 8 Pro for a 9Pro XL and keep it until GrapheneOS lands and agreement with an OEM to launch their own devices.
I guess all we can do is wait and see what happens in a month or so.
Do you have access to credit unions?
Looks like you’re Brazilian too, friend. Here is almost impossible to use banks through webapps cause all of them require their apps to 2fa so you’re obligated to download and use their apps. Luckly I’ve found bank apps that I can use on my lineage with microg phone.
rooting your phone gives you ability to fake a lot of the requirements to make stubborn apps run.
Rooting also completely breaks the ability to run some apps with no recourse for spoofing the fact that it’s a rooted device.
Which ones? It’s pretty easy to pass Strong Integrity.
Passing strong integrity check isn’t always enough. My banking and government 2FA still don’t work on rooted devices (or graphene with locked bootloader and play services)
My bank is accessible via web only if I authorize the login with the iOS or Android app - there are no alternatives.
Good; if an app isn’t in fdroid then you don’t need it and should move to its fdroid replacement.
I am with you on this!
Need to buy a VPN? check F-Droid first. Need any other utility? check F-Droid first, I am ready to suck up a lot of inconvenience with the apps that aren’t polished (Most of the time they are superior). Feeling generous? donate and help make the world a better place.
I sucked up a lot of inconvenience using Linux for last 2 decades or so, so I am well prepared.
Garbage take.
Sadly there are apps that don’t have an F-Droid replacement.
Well if they matter and if the source code is available under an FSF approved license; then it should be relatively easy to get them in to fdroid
I wish that was the case but there is no source code, not even a web app. That’s the problem with most of them.
Then they were just going to disappear on you anyway. Best not to have them.
I stopped using Google Play Services 6 years ago. I only do my banking on PC. However, there are things I cannot do this. One example is, my local municipality’s public transportation app. It doesn’t have source code, it doesn’t have a web app, it doesn’t even have an API. I already cannot use its some parts due to its dependency of Google Play Services. Not having this app would just make my life harder.
Public funds, public code.
yes, but sometimes we don’t have a choice.
Well that is true for people who live off gig work ( but those companies pay to have access to your bank account balances and credit card debt information and use it to screw you harder when you get desperate) and long term it only becomes a brutal debt cycle designed to extract maximum profit from them.
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if u rely on GMS so much, have u tried replacing it with microG?
it works but it can be messy sometimes. it also doesn’t pass play attestation, which is the big problem here.
