Liberalism isn’t aligned to socialism anywhere, socialism is antithetical to liberalism. Liberalism is the ideology of capitalism, which is diametrically opposed to socialism.
That is classical liberalism. It doesn’t reflect modern liberal ideals which have aligned more with socialism, and a lot of european parties regularly form coalitions with socialist or social-democratic parties because their ideals align so often in modern times.
Liberalism cannot align with socialism, they are diametrically opposed. Liberalism supports private property while socialism supports public ownership of property. Social Democracy is a subset of liberalism. “Modern liberalism” is just maintaining capitalism.
Lemmy is primarily developed by Marxist-Leninists, and we have a ton of Marxists and anarchists in general. You aren’t going to get hate for being a leftist unless you’re on a more liberal instance.
leftist is pretty vague still because others are leftist to but each other’s mortal enemies like like anarchists and communists.
you have to study political theories to understand what they actually mean. most people calling themselves leftist in the united states are socialist-democrats because they don’t understand what socialism is due to not reading any sort of political theory.
Anyone to the right of anarchists and communists I guess. Find someone using the word “tankie” or “authoritarian” and you’ve probably found a live one.
This. Never understood the term in the first place, is this something I’m not american enough to understand? Isn’t there a substantial difference between right-liberal and left-liberal?
There are liberals and leftists and left leaning and libtards and centrists and left leaning center and center leaning left and progressives and I have no clue what’s going onnnnnnnnn
Libtard? If it’s that, I’m sorry. I threw that in as a joke. And if it’s indeed ableist…. I mean I guess it’s close to the r word, so I’m sorry that was dumb. If it’s something else…. I don’t know what.
Truth. But… like…. The are are running fucking wild_ so can we maybe put up some sort of resistance to that? No? :( ugh. Fuck it, let’s just cut to civil war or whatever. Should I get my life on track or are we collapsing?
Liberal means you support capitalist rule over society, and also their preferred model of governance (bourgeios parliamentarism / capitalist dictatorship) as being “superior” to any alternatives, and especially the existing socialist alternatives.
Also since this model was first adopted by three colonialist western countries (UK, US, and Netherlands) in the 1700s, and adopted by most of western europe shortly after, it mostly coincides with a strong belief in white / western supremacy, as being the only “legitimate” form of governance.
The best book I could recommend here, is Losurdo’s Liberalism - A counter history.
Maybe I’ve been on lemmy too long. So confused on who liberals are anymore.
Liberalists believe in a secular ideology where all humans are equal but white people are the most equal.
it comes down to capitalism vs socialism.
progressive + capitalist = liberal
progressive + socialist = leftist
US politics is weird. Liberal in the rest of the world is more aligned to socialism than capitalism. Leftist is way more extreme.
I agree that US political vocabulary is weird. But this characterization just isn’t true at all.
For example, in Japan, the Liberal Democratic Party is ideologically conservative. Same story with the Australian Liberal Party.
Whereas Liberalism in the US is associated with the left of the Overton Window.
Same with the British liberal party
The left of the US overtone window is very much right wing.
Correct, but your average yank still thinks of that as “left”
a liberal in the united states is a centrist in the rest of the world.
a leftist in the united states if a liberal in the rest of the world.
the united states is MUCH more conservative that the rest of the world
Indeed. I think I need to find a less US dominated instance maybe.
Lemmy.ml is less US-dominated than other general instances, though you can find country-specific instances.
Liberalism isn’t aligned to socialism anywhere, socialism is antithetical to liberalism. Liberalism is the ideology of capitalism, which is diametrically opposed to socialism.
That is classical liberalism. It doesn’t reflect modern liberal ideals which have aligned more with socialism, and a lot of european parties regularly form coalitions with socialist or social-democratic parties because their ideals align so often in modern times.
Liberalism cannot align with socialism, they are diametrically opposed. Liberalism supports private property while socialism supports public ownership of property. Social Democracy is a subset of liberalism. “Modern liberalism” is just maintaining capitalism.
Well. That one makes sense. So I’m leftist…… prepares for hate
I don’t think you’ll get hate for being a leftist on Lemmy.
Depends on instance and community, but in general I agree.
Lemmy is primarily developed by Marxist-Leninists, and we have a ton of Marxists and anarchists in general. You aren’t going to get hate for being a leftist unless you’re on a more liberal instance.
checks instance
yeah brace for impact I guess
I know, I know, haha. I’m more gently prodding introspection than anything else.
leftist is pretty vague still because others are leftist to but each other’s mortal enemies like like anarchists and communists.
you have to study political theories to understand what they actually mean. most people calling themselves leftist in the united states are socialist-democrats because they don’t understand what socialism is due to not reading any sort of political theory.
Well, that, yes, and McArthysm and descendants.
Not all of us anarchists have been successfully propagandized to hate communists 🤷♀️
who does this sort of propaganda?
Anyone to the right of anarchists and communists I guess. Find someone using the word “tankie” or “authoritarian” and you’ve probably found a live one.
that does next to nothing to narrow it down. lol
This. Never understood the term in the first place, is this something I’m not american enough to understand? Isn’t there a substantial difference between right-liberal and left-liberal?
There are liberals and leftists and left leaning and libtards and centrists and left leaning center and center leaning left and progressives and I have no clue what’s going onnnnnnnnn
ableist slur
Libtard? If it’s that, I’m sorry. I threw that in as a joke. And if it’s indeed ableist…. I mean I guess it’s close to the r word, so I’m sorry that was dumb. If it’s something else…. I don’t know what.
It’s specifically a portmanteau of “liberal” and the r-word
And they all hate each other.
Truth. But… like…. The are are running fucking wild_ so can we maybe put up some sort of resistance to that? No? :( ugh. Fuck it, let’s just cut to civil war or whatever. Should I get my life on track or are we collapsing?
Join an org like PSL!
After looking at where my views lie on the political spectrum, I have determined that I am an abomination.
Samesies bother/sister/comrade
Liberalism is the ideology of capitalism, so everyone supporting capitalism is technically a liberal.
Same. I have an identity crisis myself now too.
Essentially, liberals are pro-capitalism, and leftists are pro-socialism.
Liberal means you support capitalist rule over society, and also their preferred model of governance (bourgeios parliamentarism / capitalist dictatorship) as being “superior” to any alternatives, and especially the existing socialist alternatives.
Also since this model was first adopted by three colonialist western countries (UK, US, and Netherlands) in the 1700s, and adopted by most of western europe shortly after, it mostly coincides with a strong belief in white / western supremacy, as being the only “legitimate” form of governance.
The best book I could recommend here, is Losurdo’s Liberalism - A counter history.
Awesome, I’ll have to check out that book, thanks!
No probs! There’s an audiobook of it here also.
Liberalism: A Counter-History