• 0 Posts
  • 37 Comments
Joined 1 month ago
cake
Cake day: August 17th, 2024

help-circle
  • I mean sure…but essentially you’re using the facts as they stand as justification that it will never work

    More or less.

    when my whole point is that these facts as they stand need to change because they will never work unless we change them.

    I think to make that argument you’d have to first argue that this works elsewhere. But we see warnings like this, https://web.archive.org/web/20221104001618/https://old.reddit.com/r/TaylorSwift/comments/yljj15/swifties_be_warned_that_this_is_a_fake_account/ or like this, https://www.instagram.com/czaronline/p/CvAts_9MFDf/

    then I’m not at all convinced that this is the case.

    You can tweet at celebrities, and you can follow celebrities on instagram, and all the other services, but you generally can’t email them.

    Perhaps it’s a generational thing? Back in the day you could. Bill Gates used to be reachable at bill.gates@microsoft.com and Jeff Bozos at jeff@amazon.com

    On the flip side, just because a celebrity has a handle on a particular social media service doesn’t guarantee you can reach them. Taylor Swift has a tumblr but she hasn’t publicly used it in years.

    People keep using email, and domains as reasons for why it’s not an issue, but there’s a reason celebrities aren’t known for their email.

    What’s the reason? Two things come to my mind: first, Bill Gates supposedly said he had an entire team whose job was just to read and respond to his public email.

    Second, email is direct contact, like a DM rather than a tweet (that everyone sees). The email equivalent would be a mailing list. If you want that, you can join Taylor Swift’s mailing list over at https://www.taylorswift.com/#mailing-list

    you wouldn’t want a second abff08f4813c to exist.

    I wouldn’t mind that much, tbh. Though considering the username in question, it’s very unlikely.

    Even if you don’t use tiktok, you would want to make sure nobody else has the name abff08f4813c on tiktok.

    Much harder with a name like Taylor Swift. How many other people have the same name? Even on twitter there’s a different taylorswift - so the famous singer is taylorswift13 there.

    now suddenly 300 more abff08f4813c on 300 different instances all pop up.

    My username is probably the wrong one to use for this example.

    But more generally - does anyone want to be taylorswift@hotmail.com and taylorswift@gmail.com and taylorswift@outlook.com and taylorswift@yahoo.com all at once? (Well, okay, yes there probably is someone who wants that, with bad intentions, but practically speaking it’s kinda obvious that these aren’t all official email accounts by the singer.)

    Because if you try to sue one person on one other instance that has abff08f4813c,

    But Taylor Swift may not be able to sue the other person - she’s not the only one named Taylor Swift after all.

    What I’m suggesting is, no matter which instance you’re on, if you search abff08f4813c, the search should find that username, and direct you to the profile that corrilates with you. And even though that profile is only on one instance, it would make it so if I tried to make abff08f4813c, on another instance, I would be told that username is already taken.

    And then someone tries to be abffo8f4813c or abff08f48i3c.

    I don’t see any celebrity who values their own brand on an international scale, be willing to publically announce they are on the fediverse,

    uh … https://joinfediverse.wiki/Notable_Fediverse_accounts

    and their fans can migrate to the fediverse to follow them.

    I mean, there’s no accounting for the fans, sure. If anything, celebs seek out platforms that have lots of people to connect them with fans, rather than them bring fans to a platform, I’d guess.

    From there, you could absolutely create an old twitter style verification system.

    Sure, but it’s not a required step.

    Mastodon.social could implement a mimic of the old twitter style verification system for folks who join that particular instance - and those joining another instance simply wouldn’t have the guarantee.

    And then threads can implement the verification system for folks joining directly through threads - and again those joined on another instance simply wouldn’t have the guarantee.

    And then Bluesky can …

    I don’t really see anyone but a commercial company even trying to do this - it’d be a headache - and probably expensive - in terms of the requirements to protect the data used (such as identify card verification).
















  • As GDPR-fans will tell you, data protection is a fundamental human right.

    And I completely agree with this. I’m one of those who is a GDPR-fan as well as a fediverse fan.

    We don’t let just anyone perform surgery, so don’t expect that just anyone should be able to run a social media site.

    So this is the fundamental disagreement I feel. Progress generally entails moving things into the hands of the people. We’re empowered because we can do things like program our own computers, 3-d print our own devices, and yes run our own social media site.

    Deny a person that right, and you take a bit of their power away. By running my own single user instance, I make sure that I always own my own content, no one can take it away from me by suddenly shutting down their website (as has happened to e.g. elle.co for example).

    As such, my goal here is to figure out how to let ma & pa joe run their own social media site on the fediverse, while staying GDPR compliant.

    Of course, the same can be said of surgery but it’s still not allowed. Obviously the harm from letting anyone try it is much worse than strictly regulating it, but is running a social media site on the fediverse likewise so harmful? Is there no way at all to strike the balance?

    They need legal experts on the team.

    I’ve been thinking about this. You are right of course, but I’d wager that this is outside of what most folks running instances can afford. In particular new devs who want to run their own single user instance.

    So what’s the way forward? I have come up with an idea for this. Basically we need to get some organization like the EU branch of the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) to research this and come up with a HOWTO guide that covers most of the average cases - along with pointers on when something is not covered by the guide (so at least you know going in that you’d need to pay for that extra legal firepower).

    On mastodon, you follow a person, which they can refuse. Only then the data is automatically sent to your instance. On lemmy, you subscribe to a community and everyone’s posts and comments are sent to yours. At least, that’s how I understand it.

    I think you have understood correctly. This actually provided me with the epiphany that I needed. On forum-like software that speaks ActivityPub (like pyfedi or mbin), there’s no actual need to actually transfer the content. Just send me a notification - with the “user” being a bot account named something like “federation_bot_messenger” with a link to the new post or comment, then bubble it up to the user to open in their browser. No content is shared, and no identifiers like a user name get shared, so there’s no risk of a GDPR violation. It’s just a link.

    One could imagine that fancier web UIs might use an iframe or something to display the content inplace instead of requiring an extra manual click - but it’s still only on the end user’s browser that the content is transferred.

    We could still have traditional federation - but just as you describe, the allow list for that is only for those instances where you know the folks (have contracts you said) and thus are assured that the transfer of content complies with the GDPR. For unknown instances, just do the link sharing. It could be implemented in a way that instances running older software would still see a post by the bot account with just the link inside. (Perhaps as an enhancement, folks could designate a trusted instance as the primary - e.g. my instance trusts lemmy.world as primary, so when it sends the links out, it sends out a lemmy.world link, to take the load off of my own instance from users clicking on links.)

    Or am I missing anything here?

    Bear in mind, that few of the people who passed the GDPR have any technical background. Of the people who interpret it - judges and lawyers - fewer still have one. They are not aware of how challenging any of these requirements are.

    I think this is a bit unfair. Clearly they had technically knowledgable advisors at the very least. After all, they came up with exceptions like this,

    here are two exceptions here: “Involuntary data transfer” is generally seen as not being part of the data handling. But that mainly applies to datascrapers like the web archive and similar usage where the data is transfered through general usage of a page that the DC cannot reasonaby prevent without limiting the usage of their service massively.

    That said I think I might have been a bit unfair to the lemmy devs. From https://tech.michaelaltfield.net/2024/03/04/lemmy-fediverse-gdpr/ I can see that pretty much all of the issues raised directly on lemmy itself have since been resolved - by a dev writing code to fix the problem. Even if GDPR isn’t the highest priority, the devs are clearly at work trying to address what they can when they can.



  • Depends on your POV.

    In one sense, if ActivityPub can be a bridge between two protocols (e.g. RSS vs email) then it’s always technically possible to cut out the middle man. In that sense, no not really.

    From my POV though ActivityPub shines because it’s more content agnostic. RSS is specific to feeds and posts, while email is for email, Bluesky is Bluesky (twitter), etc, but ActivityPub can handle video (peertube), images (pixelfed), forums - including likes and downvotes (Lemmy), microblogging (Mastodon), etc. (Note that the ActivityPub to email implementation I mentioned currently doesn’t handle likes/downvotes for example.)

    With the possible exception of email, I’d also say that ActivityPub has something these other protocols do not - ownership over your own data. If you run your own instance for yourself, you always retain a copy of your content - you don’t have the situation of ello.co where if the site suddenly goes down without warning you lose years of work. Even if you use someone else’s instance, if that goes down you may be able to recover your content from another instance that was federating to it (retrieving content posted to kbin.social from the copy at fedia.io for example). That’s the beautify of federation.

    (This is also true of traditional email, but things like gmail and Outlook - where the email is simply hosted on someone else’s server - are moving away from that.)



  • a purely personal or household activity
    No chance. This is what makes it legal to share data within a family and, to a degree, among friends. Running an open social media platform is neither a personal nor a household activity.

    Hmm.

    So running a single user instance for my own personal use (and keeping in mind the nature of federation meaning the only stuff my instance sends out is the stuff that I write) is absolutely not covered by the above?

    The UK is not part of the EU. They kept the GDPR when they left, but it should not be assumed that the UK interpretation is always the same.

    That is a very good point indeed.

    The GDPR is not very thoroughly enforced; much to the chagrin of some people. This may or may not change in the future. It would be politically quite unpopular, a bit like thoroughly enforcing no-parking zones.

    Seems risky to rely on low enforcement though. For those of us who love federation and privacy and want to federate while complying with the GDPR - what must be done?