I knew I would be catching plenty of downvotes, but I am glad to get a non-tankie perspective. I even agree with some of it.
Rome lasted between 400 and 1500 years depending on the measurements, so it is hard to make the parallel with the USSR. There are many similarities, the Caesars and Stalin, impact on political philosophy, etc, but the scales are still orders of magnitude apart. Stalin may have had the best of intentions, but as you said, his means could never be justified by any ends.
As a concept, Communism is indeed a state where the main goal isn’t about the pursuit of wealth and is very admirable. Once we have obtained a Star Trek level of post-scarcity advancement, I expect the end result will look very much like Communism. I also see the politburo and Party living in wealth while many commoners starved or rationed in basically every Communist country ever.
The Tankies blame this on the Capitalists besieging them, and that plays a role, but the hardship is never shared equally at the top. Post-revolution Castro never went hungry, Stalin never stood in a bread line, Mao never wanted for anything. That to me is a betrayal of the ideology.
For every Lenin there is a Stalin, for every French Revolution a Napoleon. There seems to be an inherent vulnerability to revolutionary political actions to co-option by charismatic strongmen. That is not to say other democratic states are safer, the corruption is just usually different. The US legalized it and called it lobbying, and I won’t even start on regulatory capture by capital. It still has never fallen to a dictator (quite yet).
I prefer to think about Marxism as a lens I see the world through.
I like this. I leaned Marxist in my younger days, but as I don’t think an actual Marxist Utopia is possible at our civilization level, I would at least prefer if the government only exists to provide for defense, the common good, and ensure a level playing field for the market while staying out of everyone’s personal life. Thus libertarian wanting universal healthcare, UBI, and strong monopoly busting and protections of the commons.
I don’t think the timeframe is any good at identifying the failure. I’m not sure that Rome has seen as many historical events as the USSR: two world wars, television, nukes, space, computers to name a few. The correct answer here is that we can learn from experiments such as Rome, Paris Commune, and the USSR. We can’t learn from Putin though, assuming we both don’t want to build a relatively stable authoritarian proto fascist regime.
Stalin never stood in a bread line
Realistically, how do you imagine that? Because I can’t: you’ve built an authoritarian state with one party on the top, the country is not in the best condition. right now. There is no place for martyrdom here, you are obliged to rule the state while the things are as they are. I do not agree to shit on Stalin/Castro/Mao for exercising more lavish lifestyle than the common people. I can agree to shit on them for creating the system where they are the center of the country though.
On a side note, do you know the story of Vasily Stalin? He was Stalin’s son and he did not have such privileges.
There seems to be an inherent vulnerability to revolutionary political actions to co-option by charismatic strongmen.
Historical irony here is that Lenin himself discusses this in “What is to be done?”, giving the example of Napoleon if I’m not mistaken. He’s all for democracy though.
staying out of everyone’s personal life
The first thing Bolsheviks did, was cancelling the persecution by political reasons (being gay included) and legitimizing abortions.
Overall I see that although you identify as a right winger, we don’t have that different world view and how the world should be. I very much appreciate you being honest. Such threads make me love humanity more
I knew I would be catching plenty of downvotes, but I am glad to get a non-tankie perspective. I even agree with some of it.
Rome lasted between 400 and 1500 years depending on the measurements, so it is hard to make the parallel with the USSR. There are many similarities, the Caesars and Stalin, impact on political philosophy, etc, but the scales are still orders of magnitude apart. Stalin may have had the best of intentions, but as you said, his means could never be justified by any ends.
As a concept, Communism is indeed a state where the main goal isn’t about the pursuit of wealth and is very admirable. Once we have obtained a Star Trek level of post-scarcity advancement, I expect the end result will look very much like Communism. I also see the politburo and Party living in wealth while many commoners starved or rationed in basically every Communist country ever.
The Tankies blame this on the Capitalists besieging them, and that plays a role, but the hardship is never shared equally at the top. Post-revolution Castro never went hungry, Stalin never stood in a bread line, Mao never wanted for anything. That to me is a betrayal of the ideology.
For every Lenin there is a Stalin, for every French Revolution a Napoleon. There seems to be an inherent vulnerability to revolutionary political actions to co-option by charismatic strongmen. That is not to say other democratic states are safer, the corruption is just usually different. The US legalized it and called it lobbying, and I won’t even start on regulatory capture by capital. It still has never fallen to a dictator (quite yet).
I like this. I leaned Marxist in my younger days, but as I don’t think an actual Marxist Utopia is possible at our civilization level, I would at least prefer if the government only exists to provide for defense, the common good, and ensure a level playing field for the market while staying out of everyone’s personal life. Thus libertarian wanting universal healthcare, UBI, and strong monopoly busting and protections of the commons.
I don’t think the timeframe is any good at identifying the failure. I’m not sure that Rome has seen as many historical events as the USSR: two world wars, television, nukes, space, computers to name a few. The correct answer here is that we can learn from experiments such as Rome, Paris Commune, and the USSR. We can’t learn from Putin though, assuming we both don’t want to build a relatively stable authoritarian proto fascist regime.
Realistically, how do you imagine that? Because I can’t: you’ve built an authoritarian state with one party on the top, the country is not in the best condition. right now. There is no place for martyrdom here, you are obliged to rule the state while the things are as they are. I do not agree to shit on Stalin/Castro/Mao for exercising more lavish lifestyle than the common people. I can agree to shit on them for creating the system where they are the center of the country though.
On a side note, do you know the story of Vasily Stalin? He was Stalin’s son and he did not have such privileges.
Historical irony here is that Lenin himself discusses this in “What is to be done?”, giving the example of Napoleon if I’m not mistaken. He’s all for democracy though.
The first thing Bolsheviks did, was cancelling the persecution by political reasons (being gay included) and legitimizing abortions.
Overall I see that although you identify as a right winger, we don’t have that different world view and how the world should be. I very much appreciate you being honest. Such threads make me love humanity more