What a fucking joke. Why are we expected to take these people seriously? Communism will win, Death to America.
This is what we needed to encourage the fascist Biden vote!
It will do wonders!
also Biden 🤡
Trump tariffs were too small.
That’s right, Joe knows how to protect the interests of American oligarchs much better than that charlatan.
This is the top response on Twitter now.
I’m surprised they haven’t deleted it, but I guess that would be even more embarrassing since it’s already archived.
I assumed this one was satire, is that a real tweet?
The rest of the world will get cheaper solar panels and EVs, that’s quite nice.
Cheap panels are tanking European competitors, but it’s probably too late to intervene at this point. Can’t compete with work camps and cheap slave labor.
Can’t compete with work camps and cheap slave labor.
you seriously think the ONLY possible explanation for cheap solar panels is “cheap slave labor?”
not the fact that the chinese government has heavily subsidized these industries? your only explanation is work camps? where are the pictures of these work camps, the stories from all of those people who came to the US from China, they must have something to say about all of the slavery and work camps!
get fucking real and stop living in lib fantasyland
There are parts of the world not EU and US. They would all benefit from cheap panels.
But EU and US are not really important: https://www.statista.com/statistics/668749/regional-distribution-of-solar-pv-module-manufacturing/ they account only for few percent of solar photovoltaic module production.
Correct… using work camps and cheap slave labour was only acceptable when US companies shipped production to China and pocketed the profits… now that China is doing it directly, it’s certainly a problem we all care about
It’s certainly a problem the US government cares about when dealing with a hostile nation (from the US perspective).
America can’t compete with China and American corps cried for daddy.
The free market in action.
The free market inaction
FTFY
Oh we could but then the executive class would have to forgo their 8th Yacht.
so u cant because the “executive class” (capitalist they are called capitalist) control everything, u theoretically COULD if u had a revolution but u CANT.
The innovation will be bred any minute now
If hes going to do that he should light a fire under the domestics asses to get our own evs up to snuff. And market competitive. None of that whining how it cannot be done either
Yes. Also, I’d rgue the solar panels are the bigger issue since EVs are a marginal improvement for the climate vs clean energy and biking/walking.
Yup if he’s serious then the next move is to turn the Big 3 into the Big 6.
Why would the main benefactors and purchasers of this policy position (the Big 3) greenlight their destruction? This is US capitalist policy at play. They can’t compete internationally and had to purchase their domestic protection.
Well the secret here is that the Big 3 don’t physically control that policy. They can only bribe politicians and hope they stay bribed. And sometimes a protectionist policy looks like the bribe is working but it’s just a prelude to a different planned move. Like trust busting.
Can someone explain to me how tariffs help us? Couldn’t I buy a Chinese EV cheaper if there were no tariffs.?
Tariffs raise the price of affected goods allowing local suppliers to grow their business and fill the gap. A lot of countries looking to industrialize will institute tariffs to protect their industry so it can grow enough to compete with foreign companies. In our case it’s putting the cart before the horse; our domestic industries are currently unable to supply domestic needs (remember the “logistics” issue at the beginning of COVID?) and several of these goods require specialist knowledge to produce, so it’s not like we can just open a couple factories. Which is the other thing- companies might not invest in new factories as these tariffs could go away tomorrow and it takes time for factories to be built and then to even start producing goods. If the tariffs goes away before anything new is ready they will just shut down.
Correct. If there were no tariffs, you could buy a chinese EV for cheap. In this case for so cheap that the domestic US/Non-Chinese market cannot compete. So in order to protect these markets, the product needs to be made artificially more expensive with tariffs. This way, the domestic markets have a chance of competing.
However, this also isolates the country and provokes retaliation from the other side. This usually results in both sides sabotaging their trade relations with each other (for ex. with tariffs) which is called a trade war.
I would be surprised if China cares too much, there is the rest of the world that needs small cheap EVs and solar panels. But they must do something as response, that’s diplomacy.
I also don’t see the problem to put tariffs to protect domestic products, sometimes it is necessar, but prohibiting completely is not cool.
We have a number of subsidies for domestic EV production. That will all be a waste if China’s subsidized EVs undercut the domestic market. This is consistent with a broader effort to boost domestic manufacturing. While at odds with efforts to promote the adoption of green technologies, the administration is trying to strike a balance between competing interests, in this instance balancing consumer access to green tech with job growth, domestic manufacturing, and less reliance on China for critical technologies.
It doesn’t help you.
It helps Elon.
Yeah. That was my biggest gripe actually 😆🫠
Yeah but they dont want you to buy Chinese EVs, this essentially pushes non-chinese EVs (so US-made or ones from Europe)
F. I’m trying to buy solar panels right now and China has some good ones.
That’s not how you ensure America leads the world in them. That’s how you ensure corps feel safe not doing shit to innovate anymore. This is just another form of a bailout.
Didn’t they do the same for Japanese goods back in the day? Not sure it helped the American automotive industry.
Doesn’t China subsidize what they export on top of having cheap labor? In that case a free market argument cannot really be made. The innovation in the US or elsewhere would have to be extreme shifts to compete.
Idea of free market is that it’s better than a manage market. If there’s room for innovation, the free market will find it. Central planning leads to being risk adverse and exploiting inefficiencies to soak up government money. So if free market is your religion, you shouldn’t be bothered that China tries to plan their production instead. Cheap labour also doesn’t hold since the USA has historically been happy to have their companies contract labour from cheaper countries. So if you’re losing due to Chinese salaries, just hire Chinese people.
Also, China doesn’t subsidise any of these exports. Then they’d lose money, and they’re exporting to earn money. They subsidise R&D and domestic sales of things that’ll make domestic companies more productive and competitive.
Cheap labour also doesn’t hold since the USA has historically been happy to have their companies contract labour from cheaper countries.
There’s also all of our prison slaves (inb4 they’re not slaves because they get paid a few cents per hour).
Yes- it’s the United States
We should just be buying solar panels as cheap as we can, as fast we can who gives a fuck if they “dominate” the net positive is worth it
These go right against our goals to increase use of solar and EVs. ☹️
It does sadly. On the flip side, China seems to be trying to capture car manufacturing markets by subsidizing their producers. This would probably be a bad thing in the future if allowed. Hopefully the US government does more work on making it easier to purchase electric cars in the US(specifically the price) while also reducing the need for driving.
Also there is no US auto-manufacturer is going all in on EVs, they’re all mostly building gas-guzzling oversized trucks and SUVs. US automakers intentionally killed EVs in the 90s, and hoped no other country would start building them.
Also no US auto-manufacturer is going all in on EVs
Tesla? Rivian? Lucid? Faraday? Fisker?
To be clear, yes, of course I understand that those are all luxury brands, but that doesn’t make your statement any less false.
No, the major auto manufacturers aren’t going all-in on EVs, but that are all getting deeper every year. There’s no reason to expect that progress to slow down, as they’re all quite entrenched in the technology at this point.
Average new car cost is $55,821, and average cost of ownership is $12,182.
The American manufacturers do not want lower prices. Dealerships don’t like electrics because there’s less maintenance.
Tesla? Rivian? Lucid? Faraday? Fisker?
To be clear, yes, of course I understand that those are all luxury brands, but that doesn’t make your statement any less false.
I mean, of course the explicitly EV-making startups are going to be all-in on EVs. The distinguishing feature that makes them not count compared to [established] US auto manufacturers isn’t that their stuff is luxury, it’s that they didn’t exist before and have no previous internal-combustion product line to pivot away from.
What companies have gone all in on EV making that isn’t a relatively new company/startup?
While true, the cost differentials go much deeper, and they affect all products & services.
Michael Hudson: America’s Neoliberal Financialization Policy vs. China’s Industrial Socialism
What exactly is wrong with a country subsidizing green energy products? Not only that, but making them available cheaply to other countries?
They’re oversaturating the market with low-quality products. This can be a significant problem when there are safety implications.
The Chinese cars are probably much safer on the road then the huge pedestrian killing machines built by US manufacturers.
Truck SUV moment:
I’m sorry but this argument doesn’t make sense. Don’t you have safety rules in the US? If the Chinese cars aren’t safe to drive nobody should be authorized to drive them in the first place. If they are safe, no need for tariffs then.
This decision has absolutely nothing to do with alleged poor manufacturing quality. It’s protectionism, pure and simple.
It sounds you’re still stuck in the 1990s. Where do our iPhones and other smartphones and our laptops come from? Where do many of the parts in our cars come from? What country has more high speed rail than every other combined? What country has its own space station?
Why can’t they just certify cars based on safety and ban unsafe ones instead of blanket ban the entire segment of them. It certainly helps the adoption of EV among masses.
This is what the NHTSA has done since its formation in 1970.
The US Government doesn’t want US automakers to lose market share so that they have plenty of manufacturing capacity that could be retooled to make weapons in case of war.
When a trillion dollars a year doesn’t commit enough warcrimes :(
Makes sense. Also petro-profits.
I’m not precisely sure where I stand on this, but I understand the primary policy arguments for this decision would be something like this:
The problem comes later, when a specific actor has an outsized market share and then exploits their trade advantage for other concessions.
It also prohibits domestic competition for those products, especially in countries with high standards of living and wages. This negates competition and innovation, since most corporations don’t have the ability to compete with an entity with the capacity to eat cost like the Chinese government.
The point of trade decisions, is to import products you don’t have enough domestic production to cover the demand for.
We know that the US auto and oil industries have no sincere desire to build EVs anyway (or any green industry whatsoever), because they did their best to kill their domestic production of EVs in the 90s, and there’s no US industry for solar panels.
This is all just part of the US’s trade war with China, that is prioritizing the profits of its auto and oil industries over the wellbeing of the environment, and the desires of its citizens for electric vehicles.
I can’t say I disagree with anything you’ve said. It really is silly, given the US auto manufacturer industry’s continuous fuck ups, and pulling out of EVs. But hopefully this makes risk taking more likely in other countries’ car industries to move into the US market. Tesla seemed close to really catching on, but then again EVs have always been seen as “elite” here.
But I suppose the question is whether there is that much demand for EVs? This could protect what demand there is, to at least make an even playing field for US or US ally made EVs.
Speaking to your first point: users of Lemmy aside, I don’t think there’s that much demand for pure electric vehicle yet across the US. We so routinely travel such long distances here, and charging infrastructure just isn’t quite there outside of urban corridors to facilitate the easy usage of fully electric vehicles.
So hopefully this can protect domestic or other countries’ industries until the idiots that comprise the US consumer market catch up to global realities.
But I suppose the question is whether there is that much demand for EVs?
Remove the tariffs / open up the market and you’ll find out. I suspect that there wouldn’t be a need for these tariffs if the demand wasn’t there.
it undermines any less subsidized green energy industry which can lead to monopolies in the long run.
Really important for world emissions for the US specifically to transition to EVs too, considering it has the highest per capita road emissions in the world.
deleted by creator
Most east Asian countries are fairly low down on the list. They have excellent public transport, the world’s best high-speed rail networks, and a significant number of road vehicles are already electric.
Cope lol
EVs are expected to reach 45% marketshare in 2024 in CN. Also I guess you haven’t seen their high speed rail network expand over the last decade (pressuring their car market in general). Then you have a lot of capita. So yes the numbers make sense.
China is mostly building rail to solve its transportation issues, so this is completely unsurprising.
China has a lot of capita. Most of them dont have cars.
Interestingly, China and India, who were told are massive polluters, aren’t even on that list.
That graphic is limited to a comparison of emissions from use of roads only.
Of course, not roads only, the USA is still terrible and China and India are still not on the list.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/270508/co2-emissions-per-capita-by-country/
Most of that is because we truck everything and trains only get used for extreme bulk like coal
We can thank the US oil and auto industries (the same ones dictating these green energy tariffs to their political puppets), for that too.
Don’t forget overloading them with hazardous materials, only to eventually inevitably crash and cause another social, economic, and climate disaster!
The big pickup trucks and large SUVs dont help either.
I’d rather we ensure higher standards of safety and quality for our vehicles, which are already terrifying death machines, but the hit to solar is a real step backwards.
That’s a cop out. Cars aren’t getting registered without meeting safety requirements.
We can’t let stopping climate change get in the way of capitalism!
That’s protectionism, not capitalism.
That’s no true Scotsman.
No, protectionism exists outside of capitalism and even somewhat goes against the idea of capitalism, especially the free market kind.
That’s theoretical capitalism, in practice there is no free market.
That’s no true Scotsman.
Bait or brain damage. Call it
Tomato, tomato. The free market is a myth, there is no part of the economy that goes without manipulation. Anytime business owners can’t directly manipulate the market themselves they bribe governments to do it on their behalf.
I don’t think anyone is arguing that a pure free market exists.
Having a capitalist economy doesn’t mean that you have a pure free market anyway.
Although there are libertarians that would like to have a free market like that, every capitalist economy has regulations in place in an attempt to prevent monopolies and/or businesses having too much power in one area.
Swiggity swooty the oil lobby is coming for your booty
Funds raised will be used to offset further increases in subsidies to the domestic oil industry
In all honesty they could use this tax and an extra oil tax to subsidise the shit out of solar and EVs
Yeah, except everyone has had it beaten into them - nobody fucks with gas prices.
Every news outlet in the country runs the same news segment practically daily - “Let’s complain about gas prices”. We’ve somehow made it the subject of basically nonstop discussion.
Every time someone brings up gas prices I’mma just be like: “you know where the cheapest gas prices are? Electricity.”
I mean, there is a case for discussing gas prices since it’s the price of mobile energy for everything from tractors to trucking to electricity. The gas price, specifically crude oil price, used to be synonymous with energy prices so any increase in oil price would mean a major hit to cost-of-living increases.
It’s outdated as hell.
If people can afford to commute to office jobs in 5,000lb trucks the gas prices aren’t high enough.
Heezul Schneezul, the future is diesel.
Disease-al
Also medical supplies, including masks, because COVID is Joever.
It’d be really funny if those raw milk drinkers started a bird flu pandemic during a medical PPE shortage 😂
