They are citing ONS figures of excess deaths as proof the vaccines are killing people. I tried to explain that not being able to get a doctor’s appointment, staying home and getting fat, etc explain the figures (official sources have said it too) but they said it’s “gaslighting” and then said their family doctor wouldn’t get the vaccine.
You stop speaking to them.
They’ll either come to realize that there are real world consequences for being a dumb asshole, like their friends and family abandoning them…or they won’t. Either way, you win.
“It couldn’t hurt to get a second opinion, at least, right?”
Tell them that you’re a sheeple, and got the safe dose of the vaccine, since they want to keep the compliant people around. Tell them it’s too bad they’re on “the list” of bad people.
Well I guess we agree that we should respect body autonomy.
But please be cognizant of the social consequences of not having herd immunity to protect the vulnerable and the perfectly reasonable judgement that your actions will result in the death of children, potentially including your own.
“If you think the world’s top scientists are trying to kill you, then why would you listen to any expert about anything? They’ll save you from yourself when you’re wrong anyway. Would you do the same for them? That’s why they’re trustworthy, and you and your sources are not.”
Seriously. Take your car to a baker next time you have trouble.
Not everything requires a response and at some point you have to pick your battles. They have revealed to you that they are an idiot. It is not your job to fix them.
Seriously, I’ve had multiple conversations with my BIL where he comes over to me and says something insane, and my response is just “huh okayyy…” and I walk away without saying anything else. I don’t care to be polite anymore.
Sometimes the best response is no response at all. Silence can be deafening.
They don’t need a vaccine to depopulate when heart disease(695k/y), car accidents(40k/y), overdoses(82k/y), abortion(1m/y), and suicide(49k/y) kill far more people than the vaccine could possibly be linked to the COVID vaccines(8k in total).
Don’t at me for including abortion, I support abortion access and want it to be a free service, but we are talking about depopulation means and abortion is a means to depopulate.
A pregnancy is not a person to count. That’s anti-abortion rhetoric.
The question is: does it make sense for the government to ban abortions, just to kill ppl with vaccines on the other hand?
You are allowed, and sometimes encouraged, to not say anything.
Are people still talking about Covid vaccines? Aren’t there new conspiracies to move onto. How about Biden being a robot?
Sever ties. I’m sorry.
good idea, i’m sure they’ll get better on their own
They likely won’t get better. And that’s why you cut ties. You can’t change the way they view the world. They have to come to that on their own.
It’s to my benefit if other people take the time to fix their broken and bigoted family members. I wouldn’t recommend someone sever times. Just because you have had experience with stubborn people who can’t change doesn’t mean most people are like that.
I haven’t tried to unbreak anyone because I haven’t known any consiratorial thinkers. But I do listen to the QAA podcast, which studies the effects of conspiratorial thinking and interviews researchers and authors and it’s pretty clear that only the conspiracy nutter can pull themselves out. No amount of logic can turn them around and it’s a form of self-harm to try.
IIRC there was a study where people with strong opinions talked to an Al and the process changed their minds.
Edit:
Durably reducing conspiracy beliefs through dialogues with AI https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.adq1814
Yes they are. Those who don’t take them help depopulate the planet
Arceus, if it only worked faster…
If you think they’d be open to it, try Bayes’ theorem. Ask them to give percent likelihoods for the following:
A. The odds that the government (or whoever) is trying to kill everyone, before taking the evidence of excess deaths into account
B. The odds of seeing excess deaths for any possible reason, not just their conspiracy hypothesis
C. The odds of seeing excess deaths if the conspiracy hypothesis were true.Then logically, the odds of the conspiracy being real given the excess deaths should be A*C/B. If you disagree on the outcome, you must disagree on one or more of the assumptions (probably A—if it’s B, you can find the objective odds by checking historical data).
If you still disagree on the prior assumption (A), you can set aside the excess deaths argument and ask what other evidence led them to form that prior assumption. Then you can repeat the process until you either reach agreement or they’re left with an assumption with no evidence.
You can’t use logic to talk someone out of a position they didn’t use logic to get into in the first place
Well, not with that attitude.
…You are asking people who… willfully choose to be idiots to… do science?
I mean, you do you, but at the point someone is willing to believe “the top scientists in the world are trying to get you killed” you might as well consider them lost, as they are ignoring elementary-level statistics.
People are different and respond to the same message differently depending on the source. OP might have an in with their loved one and therefore a chance of changing their minds.
That’s a nice sentiment but no, it won’t work. If your family member rattles conspiranoia to your face, it means they already don’t care about you to enough a point to not only openly do that, but also they are probably unvaxxed and likely unmasked at the moment. Or every single time.
At that point, they don’t care for you. Period.
This is an easy one:
Ask them to point to the depopulation occurring.
On the graph the fuzzy dot is on June 2021 which was around the time that vaccines were in full availability. According to their logic we should see a decline occurring from the “depopulation” occurring from COVID vaccines. Where is that decline?
The growth rate is a better chart for that, because you can see the population growth drastically diminishing (because more deaths = less grow) until vaccines where made available and then it immediately goes back to normal. If someone wanted to depopulate all they had to do was prevent the vaccines from reaching people or have people not take the vaccine.
That’s a cool suggestions. Where can one find something like that I wonder 🤔
If you click the source for the graph above and scroll down you’ll have it there.
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