[Deleted]
Millennial, briefly experienced a life with limited access to information.
You are capable of more than you think. You wrote phone numbers down and memorized your own. You memorized the ones you used regularly. I had 7-8 friends and family numbers memorized.
You also only needed one phone number per household.
When you needed to know something like how to fix a car or replace a light bulb you asked someone. Often An uncle, aunt, or cousin. If nobody in your friends/family group knew, you went to the library.
Yellow pages and magazines and instruction manuals were constantly floating around with information. I never felt deprived of curiosity. I read a lot.
It’s almost getting harder to find accurate information now with information overload, especially when a ton of it is just AI or SEI marketing sites.
I feel that. I actually was just lamenting that a minute ago, looking at the bottom of my Zippo lighter, which says “1941 Replica.”
“Man, imagine living in a time when nobody thought smoking was bad for you…” - my brain
Imagine living in 1902, when you could just go to the store and buy cocaine and heroin for your toothache.
Hell, listening to the fun our parents had growing up. It shouldn’t be punishable by years in prison to shoot off some fireworks at a party. (I live in OH, our fireworks laws are brutal. Us and Utah, man.)
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with lamenting that the past is gone. Yes, there were bad things we’re better off without, but we lost and gave up a lot, too. Missing those things isn’t wrong.
As a gen X, 47, part of the latch key generation. You just did things yourself and became resilient yourself. Parents always had a set of phone numbers to call if needed. You had access to a phone book but mostly you just called your friends and got a group together to do something with. Go fishing, Ride bikes, hangout, pickup baseball sandlot style, basketball, swimming, or Nintendo when it was hot out during the summer.
And we all taught each other stuff, some of us knew how to change a bike tire, some of us knew how to tie fishing knots and what baits to use. And we all had our way of getting some stuff for free or discounted stuff from a parents business, restraunt or arcade.
We all knew who’s dads had porno mags and where they were hidden. And on occasion we could sneak some cigarettes or beer.
There would be days during the summer I’d be out of the house before my parents and they wouldn’t see me well past sunset. Shit was just easier and the world less scary I guess.
As far as driving in cities we didn’t live in, I have no idea how my parents found shit. Lincoln, grand island I can find things easily without Gps. And any rural town with 300 miles of them. Omaha I can’t find shit without Gps
I struggle with my daughter because her mother is afraid of everything and that’s been passed to her. Some things I get, and I’m glad she has a phone with her, I’d like her to take more initiative in finding things to do herself and I push her and my wife to let her be more independent
Hypernormalization.
I’m around five to ten years older than you and get the same feeling sometimes. Not so much from TV shows or movies, but also from reading or watching real-life stories from that time. Like, when reading documents written pre-Internet that reference then-current events, how and how much did they know about those events? All just TV and newspapers? Nowadays I can easily find out what happened back then, but that was obviously not so much so at the time.
I do not remember a time without the Internet at all, but I do remember very well a time before mobile Internet, and I remember that around the time you were born, most people watched TV almost every day. I hardly ever watch TV nowadays, there is so much more entertainment online (e.g. YouTube).
As for looking up information, in the mid-to-late 2000s it was really mostly Wikipedia that built up the Internet as a useful resource for doing that. Obviously nowadays nearly all information that can be found there can be found on numerous other websites too; the Internet has now been built up, so Wikipedia is arguably a much less important website now than back then…
You’re recognizing the problems of today. Someone in the 1930’s Depression would feel something similar watching a movie set in the Jazz Age.
When you’re living in it, you don’t know what the future will have. I like my information and tech, but growing up as a kid before all that was pretty sweet. You weren’t always after knowing or researching or finding out everything. You lived more in the moment.
There was also a freedom that will never return for anyone. Imagine going places and doing things that at best will only be a story people could tell. No pictures or videos that keep or prove anything forever digitally around. It’s something you subconsciously think about now all the time. It didn’t used to exist. Also the freedom of being a kid and wanting to go hang out wondering around with friends all day completely untethered or tracked. Just a “be home before the streetlights come on” and beyond that your parents have no idea where you are and can’t call you. Getting lost was an adventure.
idk why you have that feeling, but maybe it helps to remember all this info was available too, but it took longer to get it. for example, you got the news only via radio, tv and newspaper and had to keep track of time to watch it or go buy a newspaper with news from yesterday. you could get media from the library or shops, like record stores etc… you could buy maps in certain places and there were usually public maps in towns. to message someone you had multiple options, for example telegraph them. many homes had compact encyclopedia describing most known things in short. if your home didn’t have this, you could ask neighbours or check with schools or libraries.
maybe that feeling is projected impatience. maybe it’s frustration with how slow and complicated things were.
I think I just remembered one of my fears that I always have: The idea of censorship
With the internet, I can find foreign journalist’s publications to cross-check facts.
Before the internet, I don’t think foreign press critical of your country’s government, especially if it’s an authoritarian country, would’ve been permitted.
Sure there are website censorships too in the modern era. But I think getting a VPN is far easier than smuggling foreign books and newspapers, and word-of-mouth news is just a long telephone game.
back then you were also able to obtain foreign news via radio or some foreign newspapers. on airports and big train stations you could usually get foreign newspapers and magazines. also, it was expected of reporters to be as objective as possible most of the time. the shit fox and others pull nowadays was absolutely faux pas until like the 70s and was less bad until like mid 90s.
It was much the opposite! Yeah, we only had 3 or 4 news sources on TV, but they mostly said the same things. Being caught bullshitting, or having even a little bias, was unthinkable as trust was the only selling point as to what station you watched.
As to criticizing the government, catching politicians bullshitting was the national sport for journalists.
Bloom County was a great comic that covered American culture and politics from 1980-1989. You won’t get many of the references, but it’s a perfect snapshot of the 80s.
Before the internet, I don’t think foreign press critical of your country’s government, especially if it’s an authoritarian country, would’ve been permitted.
You’d find this on Shortwave radio. Without going into the science of it, with a Shortwave radio, you could hear news reports from the other side of the planet. I could easily regularly turn in the BBC when I was on the other side of the Atlantic.
But I think getting a VPN is far easier than smuggling foreign books and newspapers, and word-of-mouth news is just a long telephone game.
The danger on this front is today’s surveillance society. If you had managed to smuggle in books or newspapers into your home, the only way they would have been found is if law enforcement would have entered your home and searched it enough. Realistically that would be a lot of effort to try to do that on a society. Its possible, certainly, but very difficult. Today, even with your VPN, a zero-day exploit or DNS hijack could let them watch in real-time everything you’re doing without even tipping you off.
Having lived that childhood, I can give you some insight.
“Damn, how did people even get information?”
Believe it or not, most people simply didn’t. For the average low engagement person they would get news/information from the 3 or 4 TV channels available on Over-The-Air TV. Those that wanted to be informed about current events would actually plan to be in front of a TV somewhere to catch the 30 minutes of evening news (well 30 minutes national and usually 30 min local). There was some news on the radio, and possibly the largest news source was newspapers (usually only your locally published on) and monthly magazines. For most people that was it! For some they didn’t read the newspaper and didn’t watch/listen to the news.
However, if you wanted more news/knowledge/info, there was more to be had, but you had to actively go places and seek it out.
like I suddenly imagine myself, there, as a child, and not having access to this seemlingly unlimited access to information that I currently have
Libraries were the “unlimited access to information”, and there was a lot of it. Unless it was a really small branch library, every single public library building you walked into had more books/magazines/newspapers than you could read in your entire lifetime, and there were literally hundreds of libraries available to you across the USA. Private libraries, such as colleges, would have even more. It felt like unlimited access to information at the time.
and not to mention, entertainment content.
Honestly, we were much more creative. When you’d already read the couple of new magazines you got that month, nothing on the 3 or 4 channels of TV interested you, and the 4 or 5 radio stations were playing songs on heavy rotation you already knew, you went looking to create your own entertainment. This could be playing sports, writing, art, playing games you made up with friends, trying new bicycle/skateboard tricks, etc. At least a third of people would be people that created things, making songs, building models, woodworking, fixing/upgrading cars, growing (gardening/livestock), cooking, etc.
So like, that feeling of feeling like I’m in the past (as in: I’m imagining myself being in the past), but not have access to the internet just gives me a very bad feeling.
It was actually the opposite. If you spent the time to search out information, which took skills like knowing where to look in a library, you’d be thought of as smart. Example: “How the heck did you know off the top of your head that that capital of Hungary was Budapest?!”. For someone in the USA, to know they, they would have had to sought out a world map/encyclopedia/almanac, know that Hungary was a country, know that is in Europe, and know how to find the capital. Same with general knowledge on any topic such as history of the Roman Empire or US Civil War. If you had an interest, you could find the information, but it took work. People knew that, so if you could show you had the knowledge it was appreciated and came with a certain amount of respected.
You would have been just fine.
Gf and I were in college in 90 or 91 and another couple was simply amazed by us.
“You guys are so crazy! Whenever you want to learn about something you just go to the library and grab a bunch of books!”
Hmm interesting. But it means I don’t have a magical “damn it I forgot, let me google it” option. If I lived in that time, I’d have to write every piece of knowledge I want to remember down on a notebook, so I don’t forget and have to go borrow that same book again.
Or keep a whole bookshelf of knowledge, in which case, that would be taking a lot more space than a wikipedia.zim file + .epubs
You wouldn’t have that issue since you would have developed a better memory without incessant infantilizing technology. Look at how many people still remember their original phone number 40 years later. Look up the study of cab driver gray matter decrease after the GPS era. We are all stupider now thanks to tech, no doubt.
We are all stupider now thanks to tech, no doubt.
I respectfully disagree.
I mean, if you mean like for some of my peers that spend their time on shit like “tik tok” all day, that’s obviously making them more stupid. But for the nerds that actually want to know more about the world, Not really.
For example, the Encyclopedia. That’s a very narrow source of information, and subject to the author/publisher’s censorship possibly by government pressure. There is no direct publishing like there is today.
In my birth country, PRC, the Tianamen Square Massacre wouldn’t ever made it into any encyclopedias, but with the internet, at least now there’s better chance of someone using a VPN and accessing the truth. Might not change anything politically, but at least the truth is out there for anyone willing to see it.
The internet-connected world make it harder to censor thing. There are a lot of videos and images of protests during the covid lockdowns that would’ve have a hard time mading it out to the international community without the internet.
Edit: And also the fact that now everyone has a camera in their pockets, acts of police brutality are more easily documented with the exact events replayed without the usual human eyewitness unreliability (misremembering the events). The murderer of George Floyd would’ve never been convicted without that phone video. I know the fact is there are still a lot of police brutality incidents that goes without justice served, but this is progress noneless.
Technology isn’t inherently evil, its about how we use it, its about what we do to stop those in power from wielding the technology, and we have to take it back in our own hands and wield technology against them.
Im talking about the majority of humans, the lazy and the simple ones for whom tik tok is their lives. Yes sure, for those who are actually adventurous and interesting, it’s awesome to have this information and power. But most people don’t utililize that at all. They want spoon fed content. People don’t even want to find content. They want it shoved in their faces because they would rather not use their brains for 1 second.
I don’t agree with the making it harder to censor. They don’t have to make it harder to censor because everything is misinformation now, and by using that logic they can say everyone is just lying (except for their side, of course) so it’s right back to square 1. Have you seen how many people think ai slop images are real? I rest my case. Technology enabled the dumbest to become dumber and, more dangerously, confident.
All of this could also just be because it’s Americans im interacting with, and we are definitely the dumbest country.
You’re absolutely right, but the average person does not think like you. Most people don’t ever think about stuff like this.
And so you currently have a very “high-level”, rational view of technology, that makes it amazing specifically for you.
However, you either disregard or lack contact with people that are (vastly) different. When looking at a technology in relation to the world, like you want to know about in this topic, you have to view the effects on those different people from you as well. And what other people in this thread said is simply observable and happening. A very small percentage uses the internet/technology like you do. The overall effect on the population is not solely amazing.
I agree with most of the points you are making, but I think the main point the person you are replying to… their point was that … younger generations simply are not able to remember things they have read, either online, or in a book.
It used to be the case that you could not just pull up literally any information, out of your pocket, on demand.
That knowledge had to exist in your brain.
Historically, it gets even worse.
Many cultures had dedicated members of their society who had memorized an ancient tale that would take one hundred pages to write out on paper.
Of course, they did not remember them 100% accurately each time… but humans do seem to be losing a capability for mass information storage in our own brains as technology enables us to… not need to develop that capability.
The GPS navigation example is maybe easier to grasp: Before everyone had a GPS homing beacon and navigation telling them where to go, how to navigate through a city or country…
People knew how to read road signs. People knew how to read maps. People knew how to avoid high traffic areas and take shortcuts… all on their own.
Now, if you take GPS away from literally those same people, 20 or 30 years later, they would end up lost even in places they’ve lived in for decades.
Having to really actively search for the information and then writing it down both help you remember it.
Historically, people did exactly that and collected info in commonplace books.
Growing up back then I owned a lot of books (and borrow vastly more for friends and libraries). I had a couple of bookshelves in my room, but my family home had at least a dozen full sized bookshelfs. So although I didn’t have access to the infinite info of the modern Internet, I read a lot of much more specific non-fiction books. There’s a lot to be said about having a deeper and cohesive understanding of a subject, compared to reading a bunch of wiki articles and watching a few hours of YouTube on a topic (although I enjoy that too!)
Hmm interesting. But it means I don’t have a magical “damn it I forgot, let me google it” option.
So true! That is the benefit to today. But keep in mind, no one else would have it either.
If I lived in that time, I’d have to write every piece of knowledge I want to remember down on a notebook, so I don’t forget and have to go borrow that same book again.
Nah, it didn’t really work like that. You had a handful of reference books at home for general knowledge. So when you got home you could crack open your encyclopedia or almanac to answer most basic questions. Like this one:
Here’s the partial table of contents from a much later edition:
For topics/questions that exceeded this, it would be a trip to the library and potentially a conversation with a reference librarian on where to find the detailed info. If you had to order a book from another library it could take days or weeks to get your answer. This required effort is why knowledge was more prized. If you had the knowledge it was a reflection of your effort to get it. Or back in the 80s, those that were self conscious would call you a “nerd” for knowing more than they did as a defense.
Or keep a whole bookshelf of knowledge, in which case, that would be taking a lot more space than a wikipedia.zim file + .epubs
Yes, this is what many did. Yes having much more knowledge at your fingertips is much better.
It’s a bit strange to think about, but our brains seem to have adapted to information accessibility today by more readily remembering how to find the information instead of the information itself. (See Betsy Sparrow et al)
If you lived back then, chances are you’d just straight up remember more things without needing to go look them up again. But, you might also just remember what book you found it in.
I have wondered if this is part of the reason why ancient orators were apparently capable of reciting hours of dialog from memory. They simply had to. Libraries and books weren’t generally accessible. They had to rely on memory, and thus became very trained on it.
If you lived back then, chances are you’d just straight up remember more things without needing to go look them up again. But, you might also just remember what book you found it in.
Its more the second than the first, knowing where to get info:
- Want to know the industrial products of Turkey? Almanac.
- Who said “Give me a lever long enough and I can move the world” Bartlett’s Familiar Quotations book.
- Synonyms for the word “apology”, thesaurus book. Basic history of the Navajo people, Encyclopedia.
- Definition (or spelling!) of “analgesic” - Merriam Webster Dictionary.
- What happened in town on March 3rd 1967 - Microfilm/microfiche at the library
- What model of refrigerator is the most reliable? - Consumer Reports magazine backissues at the library
I have wondered if this is part of the reason why ancient orators were apparently capable of reciting hours of dialog from memory.
I’d be curious for this answer too. However I think this is more of the “benefits of a classical education” which meant that teaching materials were limited, and you may find your entire class for the year is memorizing famous speeches from men that society deemed worthy.
The “damn it I forgot, let me google it” option, back then, was looking it up in the set of encyclopedias your family probably had. Or if you didn’t have a set, or needed more elaborate information, you went to the library.
I remember it was a big deal as a kid when we got the encyclopedia Britannica on CD-Rom. So I could just type in what I was looking for instead of having to try to find it manually.
keep a whole bookshelf of knowledge
When I was a kid, in the 70’s and 80’s, the shortcut for that was the set of encyclopedias you (hopefully) had on your bookshelf. Wikipedia gets its name from wiki + encyclopedia. And the Encyclopedia Britannica, or whichever one you had, was the go-to when you couldn’t make it to the library.
Those of us in our 40-50s that helped build the thing you are having trouble imagining life without are more and more wishing they didn’t do it. We know the world before and after and yearn for the world we helped destroy. The WWW had so much potential, but like all good things it was shit on by corpo scum.
look at history book “Oh no”
flips though more pages 😳
(Wars, Oppression, Poverty, Polio…)
We certainly still have the first three and Captain Brainworm is working hard to bring back all sorts of terrible diseases.
Yep, my opinion is pretty much dead set that things really were better back then.
Yeah . We might be the first generation that’s objectively correct when we say things used to be better.
The whole “le wrong generation” thing is kind of a fallacy because being alive now allows you to enjoy all the pop culture that has gone before and today’s pop culture too. We’re in a win-win situation being alive now.
You would naturally have more friends because you’re not on the internet all the time. You would probably have a third place. Go to parks and what not. I’m an introvert as well and I grew up in the 90s, you’d be fine. Lol life finds a way. You would be surprised what you would be willing to do when there is nothing else.
90s kid introvert here.
I would hop on my bike of a Saturday morning, explore the town for an hour, hit the library, come home a few hours later with as many books as I could fit in my backpack.
I’d stay up late learning to code from paperback manuals, save my games to floppies and swap them with friends at school or make my brothers play them.
I ran a year-long pen-and-paper fantasy wargame with my friends from the Scouts, I’d spend an hour every week tabulating the results of everyone’s orders and updating the map.
90s kid here, but in a poor and rural area. I would play in my yard all day and couldn’t leave because it bordered a highway, and the nearest business was 5 miles away. Libraries were special trips. I had no neighbors, and no friends aside from school and church.
I played a fuckload of super Mario and read everything in the house whether I enjoyed it or not. Got halfway through the encyclopedia before we got free dial up Internet through AOL trial CDs and NetZero, but even then time was limited because phone line time was expensive.
I’m you from the previous generation. I lived too far away from the library to reach it on bike, but parents worked near it so they’d bring me books on their way home and returned by read ones at the same time. For me those games were written in BASIC for Commodore 64 along with rampant game piracy. Our made up pen-and-paper games were also made up but were mostly based on Cold War and Middle East scenarios.
yisss I was also jamming on the C64, a hand-me-down from a cousin
Eventually I had read all the books I was interested in at the local library, and the second nearest library, and the downtown library, and I was riding eight miles each way to get to the far side of town. As long as I was back by dinnertime!
Welp I had a brief time in elementary school to middle school like right before the smartphone era really began (think like 2012-2016), there was nearly zero phones in school at that time, I can assure you I still had near zero friends and everyone that I do talk to, I only considered them to be an “acquaintance”. Everyone talked to each other, I was the loser making origami stuff and being a loser in the corner by myself with barely anyone to talk to. So yea I kinda hated my life during that time period. Perhaps seeing tv shows portray pre-internet era triggered these subconcious memories and cause those fears to resurge?
Not having anyone to talk to for a few years in grade school doesn’t mean you wouldn’t have managed in a world without the internet. Its perhaps unfortunate that smartphones enabled you to be insular and never develop more socially (in regards to your original question)
You didn’t have much info, but neither did other people! People told the weirdest stories and “facts”.
You know that Marilyn Manson got his bottom ribs removed so he could suck other guys’ dicks?
No no no, to duck his own dick! I read it, I mesn a friend said he read it, definitely.
(But I like yours better)
Thank you. I stole the joke from Scoot (RIP Big Cat)
As a kid my mom kept a list of questions and we looked them up in the encyclopedias at the library every weekend, and a lot of people with more money had encyclopedia sets at home. So people could get information but it took a little effort and wasn’t instant
People had encyclopedias and dictionaries in their homes. They read newspapers every day [and since there was a lot of coemption between papers they made sure of their facts.]
imho people today are more likely to fall for nonsense because they look for confirmation instead of accuracy.
Newspapers were full of crap then too, and remember those magazines with the craziest stuff, like the man who could smoke through his navel? People believed the weirdest things, like walking with a twig would help you find water pipes, because you’d “feel” them through the twig.
People believed the weirdest things, like walking with a twig would help you find water pipes
Not only they still do, it’s thought in schools and practiced by the water utility professionals in the field.
They’ve charged me a hundred bucks for their expertise, to which I’ve composed an angry email, asking whether the ministry of magic would be willing to cover the damage if we, somehow, despite their findings, manage to find the pipe where it’s not supposed to be, with the front part of the excavator. They advised us to dig carefully, not addressing the magic ritual part at all.
We read Ripley’s Believe It or Not and the Guinness Book of World Records instead of Wikipedia. Urban legends were rampant. Everyone lived in constant fear of “the gum disease gingivitis”.
We also had encyclopedias, which were mostly accurate at one point in time but always a decade of more out of date when used as a reference.
What is this weird feeling that I’m feeling?
Appreciation, maybe? There were books before the internet, but I think it’s no contest that the internet is the best resource for information that has ever existed. Pre-internet people didn’t have FOMO because they didn’t know what was coming.
FWIW I don’t think it’s weird at all to feel that way. I grew up when the internet became accessible to everyone, and I would not want to go back to before then despite the new problems it poses.
As a BBS era kid, I know you’re not trying to simulate the whole thing right now in the comments section. I’d say: you would have done fine, in any era. People talk, they share methods, and you would’ve picked up whatever you needed.
I think it’s just a common sort of nightmare, worrying about being unprepared, dealing with the consequences of lack of preparation.
I recommend the first few minutes of Jason Scott’s The BBS Documentary, for an overview of how people communicated in the pre-internet days. Especially if you imagine yourself a telegraph operator chatting with neighboring stations in the 19th century or something.
