Clone myself.
Send clone through teleporter to pull lever.
360 no scope snipe the imposter clone motherfucker.
Claim credit for saving people.
If you teleport the people off the tracks then you can kill them all while still taking credit for saving them.
The Trolly Problem of Thesius
Doesn’t it depend if the teleporter open a up a wormhole or used replication?
You’ve shed and replaced every atom that you were made of when you were born and many times over since then, are you still that same entity?
Yeah, but you didn’t shed them all at once. If the ship of Theseus exploded, and then they built a new one, the question wouldn’t be, “Which is the true ship of Theseus?” it would be, “Hey, did you guys see Theseus’ new ship?”
It’s all just abstract philosophy on a non-reality scenario, I’m just having fun with it.
On a heavily relative note, though, has anyone watched Space Dandy? The show about a dandy guy in space?
Time to post Existential Comics again
I hate this comic. Your alarm clock is proof that you don’t truly lose consciousness in the way this comic implies when you go to sleep.
Shit like this always remind me of the videogame SOMA.
Have had that game in my library for years, maybe I need to play it
You should. It’s incredible. Just realize it’s a walking sim. If you’re okay with that then def play it.
That game has the best story and atmosphere I’ve ever seen in my life (maybe except for HL2)
I kinda wish SOMA hit for me but I was already well-aware of the “teleportation problem” and have an established position, so instead I was frustrated at the slow pace of much of the game and annoyed that the protagonist didn’t understand. It felt like “Bioshock at home”.
Half-Life is very different but also extremely good. And that’s despite it not even being my favorite Valve series, Portal is.
If you liked Portal 2, check out The Entropy Centre on Steam. It’s extremely similar but the puzzles are based on a different concept. Super freakin’ fun though. And a great story, just like Portal 2.
Also Portal Revolutions (fan made mod) is absolutely fantastic. It really felt like Portal 3.
And by HL2 you mean Half Life 2? Which has a shitty and unfinished story and way less atmosphere than its original game HL1???
Lol ok buddy.
Define “you.” An identical collection and pattern of atoms and subatomic particles? Then yes. A continuous consciousness as experienced by the “me” on the entry side of the teleporter? No.
Would I kill myself to save five lives and create one? Yes
There is no way to know that were not constantly dying and being replaced. The experience of continuity may be an illusion because you don’t notice that you’re only alive for a split second, and replacing the consciousness that was alive a split second before you.
Okay? That’s all well and good, but there is a way to know that a transporter does kill you. Given a choice between maybe living or definitely dying, I’m gonna choose the former.
You’re not a continuous consciousness anyway. Sleep is a thing.
I’d go deeper and say that “continuous consciousness” isn’t a concept that makes sense. You only live in the moment, with access to part of your past selves’ memories.
So there’s no distinction for you between “you have been destroyed and an identical copy of you has been constructed an imperceptible amont of time later” and “an imperceptible amount of time had passed in which nothing has happened to you”
I’d go deeper and say that “continuous consciousness” isn’t a concept that makes sense. You only live in the moment, with access to part of your past selves’ memories.
I posit that consciousness is a chemical process occurring in your brain. This process is continuously ongoing, and when it stops, you die. If a transporter constructs a perfect copy of you, down to the chemical process that constitutes your consciousness, then there is no continuity between your original body and this new one, because it’s a wholly different brain.
When people talk about continuity of consciousness, they usually mean the ego, and believe that when teleporting “you die, but someone else completely indistinguishable from you but somehow not you” is born.
I say that this little piece of magic “you”-ness that doesn’t make the jump just doesn’t exist.
I already explained how the thing that makes the consciousness continuous doesn’t transfer over to the new body. It’s not magic.
Really, all of this philosophical posturing is pointless. When you step into the entrance of the transporter, the entity that experienced stepping into the entrance of the transporter does not experience stepping out of the exit. If that entity is successfully deconstructed, it dies.
Assuming we’re talking about Star Trek/The Prestige style transporter. Some kind of space-bending wormhole that physically transports a body doesn’t kill the user.
You didn’t explain, you begged the question
If you interrupt a chemical process and then let it continue, it’s indistinguishable (and therefore identical) to letting it continue in the first place.
If you’d e.g. freeze your body, it doesn’t matter if you call the frozen state “dead” or don’t: your life would continue if it’s possible to unfreeze you.
Death or no death of meaningless if an indistinguishable individual resumes life after.
My transporter clone and I may be indistinguishable to you, but I can distinguish between us pretty easily. A transporter is not interrupting a chemical process and then letting it continue, it is stopping a chemical process and then starting another one elsewhere. Death or no death is very meaningful to me, the person who is about to be disintegrated at the entrance of this transporter.
The person who shows up at the lever looks like me, acts like me, thinks they’re me, and they are not me. No matter how arbitrarily similar we are, they’re a different person. If the transporter fails to disintegrate me, I do not see through that person’s eyes. I do not hear through that person’s ears. Because they’re a different person.
So it stands to reason that if the transporter does disintegrate me, I still will not see through that person’s eyes nor hear through that person’s ears. And because my eyes and ears are gone, I will never see or hear anything again. There’s a word for this state of existence, in which you do not experience anything.
I hate that comic. Equivocation is a fallacy. Your alarm clock is proof that you don’t lose experiential consciousness when you sleep.
What comic and no it doesn’t. And reading through your exchange with the other guy it’s clear we have very different ideas about the nature of self-identity. I don’t think of my body as necessary for “me” to exist, I am my thoughts and memory rather than my neurons and chemistry. If that information can be copied and transmitted then there will be a “me” that continues from a new location.
This here, although teleporters might actually be implemented in a way that transmits the original being to the destination. It’s a fictional technology after all, so why not?
Yeah, I am assuming Star Trek transporters. If it’s a wormhole then it’s fine
What makes you think that “continuous consciousness” is a thing and not just the way it feels like to exist?
Do you fell like you’re made out of cells? Do you feel the hormones influencing your thinking? Then why do you think that the perceived continuity of having an ego is a real thing that exists? No soul has been measured so far.
I’m not a philosopher, so this response will be imperfect and is subject to revision.
Then why do you think that the perceived continuity of having an ego is a real thing that exists?
My current response to this is that something can exist without being made of something. Consciousness is an emergent property of a sufficiently complex, chemically active neurological system. (Someone can poke holes in this definition if they like, but come on dude, principle of charity. You get what I mean.) Essentially, “how it feels like to exist” is a real, if immaterial, thing. Just like mathematics and language.
If someone makes a perfect copy of my brain and body over by the lever, using none of the materials from my original body, then it is a different brain and body, no matter how arbitrarily similar it is. The consciousness that was by the entrance to the teleporter will never experience pulling the lever.
What makes that “new” consciousness less “you” than the old one? Why do you care if the atoms aren’t the same?
If a perfect copy of me was made, both world be me, and then slowly diverge by different experience. But it doesn’t matter which one has most of the atoms of the body that existed before the duplication (or indeed if any of us was). They’ll both be “me”s with their own perspective and then they’d both continue to exist being “me” from their point of view.
Depends if teleportation uses TCP or UDP
SCTP
UDP teleportation sounds pretty questionable.
And what compression algorithm are they using?
Quantum mechanic wavelengths in mp3. So you might arrive a bit off.
If it’s jot you then the question becomes, are you willing to commit suicide so a reasonable facsimile of you can save some strangers.
I’m willing to die to save people, so if some version of me actually gets to survive it, with there being a chance that it is me, then there’s no reason for me not to do it.
Are you willing to die to save any people?
People dumb enough to nap on a trolley trail? No. rich people? Also no.
Actually this would be faster the other way around.
Orphans with chronic diseases who, should they be saved stand a reasonable chance at a cure and a long, prosperous and happy life?
Also no.
What about someone whose dog will miss them very much?
Also no.
I will take care of the dog.
What about an orphaned baby of a very rich family, when it will grow up it will have a very lavish life through inheritance, but as it stands right now it is just an innocent baby?
I’d pull the lever if I was tied to the other track. The only meaningful difference is that there will be someone who shares my values and experiences roaming the earth after I die. I can live with that.
I wonder if that would inspire him to become healthier and live longer. If I knew someome sacrificed their life so I could live, I would probably treat my body a lot better. Maybe I should go through a transporter…
The trolley problem but the only way to pull the lever is to take a nap first.
Since your consciousness stopped and then a new was started from the same meat is it still you?
If it is, then surely a new consciousness constructed from a pile of meat identical to your brain would also be you?
Your consciousness doesn’t stop when you’re asleep. Evidence: alarm clocks exist
Use a stick.
But if I don’t do it, I’m not who I think I am.
No. Not because teleporter but because no need for multi track drifting if other path clear.
Psychopath!
ok, i’m too stupid for this picture…why are commenters implying you die when you use the transporter? it’s next to the rails isn’t it?
A common conundrum with science-fiction teleporters is that they’re often described as breaking down, and then recreating, matter.
With a human being (or other sentient life form), this brings up the philosophical question of whether the ‘recreated’ you is really you? If you were taken apart in chunks, and then someone put an exact copy of you back together from those chunks, would it still be the same ‘you’ that was taken apart? Or would it be a new ‘you’, some copy or clone with all of your memories?
A fun little thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUXKUcsvhQc
Can confirm, was a fun little thing. Thanks for that!
ok, so the question is actually “would you use a teleporter to save someone’s life not knowing if you would still be you afterwards”. i was thrown off by the train tracks because usually it implies sending someone else to certain death. thanks for clearing that up.
so i guess my answer would be of course. if transporters have become so ubiqitous that they are installed in seemingly random locations and with no fee or safety measures before using them i guess they are safe to use :)
I suggest watching CGP grey’s video on teleporters.
It depends on how it works. The most popular form of transporter works by scanning your body down to the subatomic level, deconstructing the original body, and creating a perfect replica somewhere else. Imagine for a moment that it didn’t deconstruct the original body (as seen in Star Trek: The Next Generation episode Second Chances). The original and the copy are two separate entities.
A transporter doesn’t move you, it kills and reincarnates you. Unless it uses some kinda space bending wormhole tech to physically move the atoms from one spot to another, of course—then it doesn’t kill you, and you’re safe to pull the lever
well, as someone with a buddhist mindset that is not a problem for me :D
Is it still the same ship if all of its parts have been replaced?
Have you seen “the prestiege”? I think that movie explains the problem perfectly.
It’s also a really good movie so enjoy.
