I think they should have it so there’s a type of “slow down” light that supplements the brake light for when your deceleration is from taking your foot off the gas.
Please allow me this opportunity to jump in and complain about the minority, but not insignificant number, of people that don’t seem to be aware that that is even an option (just taking your foot off of the gas/accelerator to slowly decelerate).
Every couple weeks or so I seem to find myself behind someone that’s always either accelerating, or braking, with the brake lights repeatedly flashing on momentarily for no apparent reason. It’s like they realize that they’re going just a little faster than they want, and definitely don’t want to accelerate any more, so the only thing they know to do is hit the brake, instead of just taking their foot off of the accelerator. So they’ve hit the brake and now they’re going too slow, so foot moves off the brake and back to the accelerator. Rinse, lather, repeat.
End rant. Thank you for this opportunity to vent.
These people might be two-footed drivers. My mother used to do this and you’d see the brakes flash on and off while following behind her because she’d be hovering her foot on the brake pedal while also hitting the accelerator.
Those are definitely not people that ever learned to drive a manual transmission.
Please allow me this opportunity to jump in and complain about the minority, but not insignificant number, of people that don’t seem to be aware that that is even an option (just taking your foot off of the gas/accelerator to slowly decelerate).
😂 I feel your pain
Brake light activates before the brakes engages, so they could just be resting their foot on the brake while coasting. Pretty normal defensive driving technique. People tend to do it in heavier traffic or when people are tailgating them. Gives a way faster brake response.
This is actually insane. Their brakes must wear out so fast.
The brakes aren’t engaged? The light turns on before there’s pressure on the brake. They probably don’t even know their lights are on since they aren’t decelerating.
They might need to check their assumptions. It might not feel like the brake is engaged but it’s an expensive habit that causes unnecessary wear and tear. https://drivingmecrazyblog.com/2020/02/07/quit-riding-your-brakes/
Every couple weeks or so I seem to find myself behind someone that’s always either accelerating, or braking, with the brake lights repeatedly flashing on momentarily for no apparent reason.
In many EVs and Hybrids the “letting off the accelerator” engages the regeneration drag which slows the car. A number of vehicle makers with particularly aggressive drag (which gets higher regen rates) automatically illuminate the brake lights. So if you’re behind one of these it will look like they are braking when they may have no foot on any pedal (brake or accelerator).
thanks for this information. Next time i see this I won’t be confused
I just got a Chevy Volt and when I let up off the accelerator it will start the regen and significantly decrease my speed. I assume that my brake lights are coming on because so far no one has rear-ended me or yelled at me for not having brake lights. I wish there was a good way to tell for sure though. I think it’s Hyundai that does not engage the brake lights for situations like this, as I’ve about hit one before.
I don’t think they illuminate the brake lights, hence my comment. Technology connections has talked about this, although IDK which video it was.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_F4iyghT-qA
I was curious if anyone had actually tested it or not, and I found the video above where they get right into it, without any intros or family history or begging to like & subscribe… just a short video where they test it and find that, YES!, the brake lights do come on when you use the steering wheel paddle brake or when you’re in L gear and take your foot off the accelerator.
Here’s the technology connections test/analysis from 2023. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0YW7x9U5TQ
The claim is we need more comprehensive regulation for brake/slow down lights.
Perhaps a short paragraph of text elaborating on the driver’s intentions
Now that’s taking things too far.
But the slow down thing can actually catch drivers by surprise, especially with electric vehicles.
By signaling to oncoming traffic and vehicles approaching from the side, a front brake light provides an essential visual cue that a car is slowing down or preparing to stop. When the light is extinguished, it indicates that a stationary vehicle might initiate movement. According to Tomasch, this visual feedback can significantly truncate the reaction time for other road users, leading to shorter stopping distances and consequently diminishing the likelihood of accidents.
Sounds reasonable. Personally I just want front turn signals to be visible from the opposite side again.
So it sounds like you’re checking to see when the light turns off, to know that the car is going.
Sounds like what we actually need is a green accelerator light on the front of the car.
Some of the new Kias have the rear indicators in the bumper. Why are they hiding them?
Because the designers and marketers were given priority over the safety engineers.
Theres a saying in computer stuff that applies nicely here. PEBKAC, problem exists between keyboard and computer…turn signals have to be turned on, no amount of engineering can fix bad driving.
I’ve always heard it as “PICNIC”
Problem In Chair, Not In Computer
And never forget about the I-D ten T error.
Layer 0 obfuscation error.
ID10T for those who didn’t get it.
Oh, you think I need a new chair? Will the Internet come back then?
Heads up, it’s actually keyboard and chair, not keyboard and computer
Dang it, sometimes I just type stuff and dont think about what I typed (the irony of what I was writing out)
I’ve actually always found it weird with all the automation vehicles have, that blinkers aren’t linked to the wheel. it already automatically disengages when turning, it shouldn’t be too hard to have it auto engage as well when turning
The thing is, you want the turn signal to turn on before the start of the turn, so other drivers, pedestrians, cyclists can react.
agreed, I don’t think the blinker switch should be removed, but a late indicator is better than no indicator.
How would that work? On the highway, a slight nudge on a straight means you’ll cross a lane, meaning turn signals on.
A kilometer later, the exact same slight nudge could mean it’s just a light turn in the road, meaning signals off.
Now you could mandate cameras in all vehicles, which analyze your driving and turn on the turn signals when it thinks you’re making a turn. Now who’s responsible in a false positive if someone else dodges you and crashes because you suddenly turned on the signals without turning? Except it wasn’t you, but your car. Oh and also you made entry level cars 10k more expensive, making them way more inaccessible if you aren’t rich.
And also like, used at all.
Here’s an idea. How about we zap the drivers after they make a turn if they didn’t use a turn signal beforehand? 😀
Couldn’t we just use the point system from 5th element? The car noticed you did something illegal and dedicated from your point pool.
Can we do this in the same bill as the popup spikes that take out your tires if you stop across the crosswalk? The guided RPGs replacing red light cams can wait a little longer.
Cars with lane-keep assist with vibrate the steering wheel and beep at you. It’s at least something but I think most people turn it off if it gets annoying
Anyone complaining about lane keep not letting them change lanes or make turns is telling on themselves
There are a couple situations where it’s annoying and I turn it off. My truck has the “steer back into lane” style assist, but it’s tried to push me off the road before while I was towing a trailer on some narrow 1-lane roads. Some of the corners it’s just not possible to get around without touching the center line.
The vast majority of the time it stays on though and is quite helpful.
Okay Verstappen calm down there
It means they’re not indicating for their lane changes or turns.
How would you do that so it isn’t ugly as hell and isn’t prone to misunderstanding?
How would you do that so it isn’t ugly as hell
same way we do with lights now, design them attractively. It is not always successful and that’s on the manufacturers.
and isn’t prone to misunderstanding?
what about it is confusing? green = not coming at you so it’s okay to turn left (or whatever).
Removed by mod
Somebody better tell traffic light designers
Red is always on top (at least in Europe) so even color blind people know what the signal is.
okay, pick a different color then. it’s a solvable problem.
< and > for turns. X for brakes.
Honestly, we should focus on functionality rather than aesthetic.
That doesn’t answer the question. The question is how you would design it so you can look at the left side of a car, know that it’s turning right and isn’t prone to misunderstandings.
sliding light or arrows
How would that work? If you look from the side you suddenly don’t see anything again, or an arrow point forwards or backwards?
If you look from the front, current turn signals work for that already.
sliding lights: it depends on the bulb but i imagine it would easy to see move
arrows: i dont know why you think they would point fowards or backwards they would just towards the side youre on or not
If you’re looking at the side of the car, you don’t see them the same way as from the front. Which this whole discussion is about.
If you can see both turn signals from your point of view, current design works well enough.
i found a video to help you picture it better (https://youtube.com/shorts/ZD_34DxW_uI)
it really isnt that difficult
I know how flow lights work. But they still don’t help you see better that a car is turning away from you, which is what this discussion is about.
Imagine a crossroad where a car is coming from your right side. You have no way of knowing whether they turn right or go straight, regardless of the way the lights work, because you won’t see them.
I’ve seen newer cars turn the headlight off while the turn indicator is on, so you get a sort of double-blink effect.
I don’t see any reason why we can’t just have the whole headlight blink yellow as well with the turn indicator. LEDs are everywhere and can handle changing colors really easily, so it’s not hard to require that for all new cars.
Absolutely, but that doesn’t solve the problem that’s talked about here (seeing the turn signal from the other side of the vehicle). It might be clearer what the turn signal is, but if you look at the right side of a vehicle, you won’t be able to see the left headlight, even when it’s massive.
When am I ever looking at the side and needing to see the other side’s turn signal? The best I can think of is (using right side driving) a car turning right into my lane of travel as I’m going straight, but I’ll be a bit offset to the left and should be able to see the right headlight. If I can’t, that means the car is angled to the right, making it obvious that they’re turning.
Because this is what the discussion is about?
Personally I just want front turn signals to be visible from the opposite side again.
Personally I just want front turn signals to be visible from the opposite side again
Not sure if I read that correctly, but I don’t think this has ever been the case?
I think what he wants is the front turn signal to wrap around the front, so I can see the left signal from the right quarter.
I’m not aware that this is not the case, but I don’t know that I would have noticed if it was not.
i don’t think that was ever required in the US. it is elsewhere though.
Can’t speak to “required.” But I know it used to be done.
I’m pretty sure most cars have a turn signal near the headlights, and one on the mirror or on the side for that use case, no?
Isn’t that the case for pretty much everything? Newer cars alternate blinking their headlights and the signal indicator, and even cars w/ the turn signal on the side will have some light bleed through since it’s all one assembly. In the majority of cars, I can see their turn signals when they’re perpendicular to me. The larger issue is that most people in my area don’t bother to use their signals in the first place.
Yea, that’s part of why I don’t know for sure if they make cars the way the guy at the top of this thread is describing.
Same. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a car that can show me the signal on the opposite side of the car, but I have seen a lot of cars where I can see the indicator while stopped at an intersection and the car is perpendicular to me, since I have a little bit of angle to see the edge w/ the indicator.
99% of the time, it’s not an issue, and the other 1% of the time it doesn’t really matter if I can see the indicator (I.e. they’re already halfway turning, so they’re angled away from me).
Yes that’s all I want, to be able to see the indicator again. A lot of newer cars have moved them too far to the side of the vehicle.
I encounter this pretty often because a Boston area streets are terrible and the drivers are worse, so a visible indicator helps all drivers make traffic flow more smoothly.
I mean when a car is coming at me from a cross street, I want to be able to tell if they’re turning or just an asshole not using their signal. On some cars, the turn signal is mounted so far to the side that if they’re approaching from my right and turning right onto the same street as me, I can’t see that turn signal. Sometimes combined with the roundness of the nose exacerbating the problem.
Like someone said in the hnews comments, this might work for auto transmission but with manual gearing you’ve got people using engine braking on hills.
Also like stated in the article the colouring is going to be an issue and trying to see some green lights whilst the headlights are on (full beam fog lights perhaps too?) doesn’t seem practicable to me.
with computers these days an acceleration based system should be achievable for all types of cars. hybrid/electric cars already do it with regen braking.
Possibly, and I’d be interested in some sort of 360° LED on top of a vehicle to indicate to pedestrians and other drivers alike of its (de)acceleration.
But jamming some non standard colours in what is a long term understanding on the front of a vehicle I can’t really get with and would like to see the impact to people with partial / colour blindness with using such a system.
Like, does the average pedestrian know what the green and red lights mean on an aircraft? I bet not.
Well you should educate yourself on the rules of the method of travel no matter.
If you were to go up in the air and you didn’t educate yourself on what the lights mean, you’re going to ruin everyone else’s day in your incredibly dangerous ignorance.
You don’t take a paddle boat onto the water without understanding some basic principles of water navigation… why would roads in this specific cause be any different? We already do with most land methods, this one is gonna be hinge? Nah. Ignorance isn’t an excuse.
fair point about color blindness, but surely there is some 4th color that would work well with red/amber/white.
Last I heard something like 98% of new cars/trucks sold in America have automatic.
Automatics also allow for engine braking. From a quick search, it sounds like a toss-up as to whether that triggers brake lights. Regardless, the article mentions the benefit is not only from cars slowing down, but also from indicating that a car is preparing to stop or “that a stationary vehicle might initiate movement”. Neither of those can be done by an engine brake, so front brake lights would still have a benefit even with a driver that likes engine braking.
They would probably just use the existing amber lights so noone would know if you were turning or not. I’m not bitter.
Since we’re all throwing random ideas out here, I want to equip my vehicle with an annoyingly loud external speaker so that when someone near me does something dumb, I can personally shame them.
This would seem quite risky to use on US roads. I mean probably elsewhere too, but at least they don’t pack the same hardware.
I want to equip my vehicle with an annoyingly loud external speaker so that when someone near me does something dumb, I can personally shame them.
CB radios often had a “PA” switch that sent your microphone audio to a loudspeaker under the hood.
I’d prefer a “FlameThrower” button next to the horn.
Yeah this is exactly what I have in mind. I want to feel like Smokey the Bandit calling people out for bad behavior with a receiver that has a coiled cable attached to it, at a minimum.
You are looking for war
Road rage 5000 initiate
Counterpoint: the dumb people could have them as well.
Every car needs proximity chat so traffic becomes like a COD lobby.
Now there’s a Black Mirror episode with true horror!
Yes, and an oil slick button that drops some oil on the road for the hard of hearing tail rider.
I am not trying to brake check people and get in an accident but I would very much like a signal for “Please remove your car from my butthole, it’s getting uncomfortable.”
I’ve never done it, but I wonder if turning on the rear fog lights would work. You’re not braking, but they might think you are. I don’t know what the legality of that would be
In some places in the world you can give it a shot and see, but we don’t have rear fog lights in the US. I’ve never seen one on any car designed for this market, and my Crosstrek just to name an example has a conspicuous filler panel over the hole where the rear fog light goes on the same model sold in other markets.
As to why, I have no idea. But we also mandate that front fog lights can’t be configured so they can be activated without the main headlights on at the same time, which kind of defeats the purpose if you ask me. So maybe asking DOT regulations to make sense is a tall order.
Pretend to suddenly avoid a pothole.
There are LED bars for mounting in your rear windows to display text to those behind you
Like… a horn?
No. I want to make my voice loud enough for me to stop at a red light and ask the guy behind me if there is a proctology emergency or if they could stop riding my ass, and savor their expression as it dawns on them what is happening.
Now imagine everyone having one. Yeah, nah.
This is definitely a thing. I had a friend in high-school who put a loud speaker in his 69 Tempest. He was funny too. He would say the silliest things to people.
These exist. I used to deliver pizza and one of my coworkers installed one of these on their car.
Liknks or didn’t happen
I’d rather see mandatory rear running lights. The amount of people who can’t be arsed to turn on their lights in bad visibility conditions is too damn high.
It used to be mandatory with always on rear lights in Sweden (you couldn’t even turn them off). But an adaptation to EU rules removed that requirement. 😓
I strongly doubt it was genuinely linked to that. There are EU countries where having lights on all the time is mandatory.
There was an EU rule about ten years ago that stipulated that rear lights are no longer mandatory in daylight. The reasoning being to save on fuel. Which is a ridiculous reason, even more so with today’s LED lights.
I don’t know about other EU countries but this was the reason that Sweden removed the requirement. All cars in Sweden used to have the rear lights turned on at all time, even if the light switch was in the off position, but that changed around the same time.
Rear fog lights on all vehicles (some vehicles have them now).
it’s forbidden to use rear fog lights under rain (it’s more confusing than helpful)
if you live somewhere dry, that’s not a concern. But here it rains 1 day in 3
I don’t know where you are but rear fogs aren’t illegal in the rain here and from experience they are nothing but helpful in heavy rain and white out snow. I am always so so sooo glad when someone in front of me is using them when it’s absolutely pouring. You really have to not be paying attention not to notice that it’s two lights and not three and somehow mistake them for stop lights.
In fact, Transport Canada recommends using them in fog, rain, or snow.
Use only if driving in fog, rain or snow as these lights can be confused with stop lights, distracting other drivers.
II. - Le ou les feux arrière de brouillard ne peuvent être utilisés qu’en cas de brouillard ou de chute de neige. ☞ https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/article_lc/LEGIARTI000006842263
Feux de brouillard arrière : ils sont indiqués uniquement en cas de brouillard ou de chute de neige (mais jamais sous la pluie en raison de leur trop grande intensité) ☞ https://public.codesrousseau.fr/conseils-pratiques/909-feux-de-brouillard-avant-et-arriere-quand-les-utiliser.html
Ça c’est de l’osti de merde comme on dit ici.
Yes that as well, I love mine and use them a lot. But that’s a step above rear running lights. There’s no god damn reasons the rear indicators shouldn’t be on all the time.
and on the opposite side don’t turn on your emergency lights while driving in bad weather. you’re only causing confusion by making it seem like you have turn signals on if i can’t see both blinkers.
The hazards also override your turn signals so I now have no idea when you are going to attempt lane change.
The hazards are to indicate you are stopped and now a hazard.
Only when you are stopped and now a hazard. Your car becomes a blinking light. We have road rules for blinking lights, so it SHOULD be saying one specific thing.
Thank you for coming to this road safety talk.
They also indicate slow moving road hazards like a semi carrying an oversized load
and honestly i have the same problem with that intended use. it often looks like a stopped car is attempting to turn out into traffic. IMO emergency lights should have a faster blink pattern or something to differentiate from turn signals.
Faster blink is already used to indicate that one of the lights is burned out. It’s a consequence of the mechanical part that operates (used to operate) the blinking; less resistance caused by a burned out light means it blinks faster
Thats more an issue of using the same lamp for rear lights and turn signal
I read the article and the next one comes up: “Mouse Sperm Structure Unveils Asthenozoospermia Mechanisms” and my co-worker was like wtf are you reading.
Not selling tanks as cars could also help. Especially with fatality rates
People don’t even need car tbh. Motorbikes everywhere please. Zip zip, less traffic, everyone pays attention to road or falls and dies.
This might be the dumbest comment I have ever read on the Internet. That’s like 30 years of comments.
That’s why I bought mine!
I live in Maine. Riding a motorcycle in the winter is not only highly unpleasant, it’s borderline suicidal.
I’m all for 2 wheeled transport where it works, but anywhere that gets snow for months out of each year it’s a non starter as a primary transportation mode
Good luck transporting a couch on a motorbike.
And the exact reason that you don’t need to buy a truck to transport goods once in a blue moon
Rent a truck for cheap
Motorcycle rider here. Yes, families with children will rent a truck anytime they want to purchase groceries, and when it’s raining. It’s not practical.
This is a stupid thread.
The maybe use public transport? If you REALLY need to use buy car - buy one.
Also: families were not mentioned before in this thread. Is driving around with your partner and 5 kids and a couch a daily occasion?
Lol, come here and use our public transport options before you speak. This entire thread is led by those laying wide-reaching proclamations while being unable to consider any situation other than their own.
So the answer would be to advocate for better public transport
Yeah no shit for families but for people that have the choice. Fuckin dumbass
Let me go ahead and quote the broad spectrum claim that came before mine:
People don’t even need car tbh. Motorbikes everywhere please. Zip zip, less traffic, everyone pays attention to road or falls and dies.
Are you by chance from the US? Because other countries have sensible zoning laws and public transit, making cars for families not a necessity but a luxury. Where I live, nobody needs a car. Shopping is done by cargo bike or hand cart, family trips are taken by train or metro.
If you live in a stupid country tho people might depend on cars.
Great, where you live.
Like this?
I think personally I would go with this though
(/s cause it is probably needed)
I retract my statement, this looks perfectly safe and effective.
Good luck transporting a couch in a car
Removed by mod
It would also help know whether are not I’m going to get smushed.
I’m salty because nobody took my front-blinker serious 😤 but we should embrace front brakes?! 😔
Whatever makes things more safe 🌞!
deleted by creator
This sure riled people up.
This is stupid
Once we have proper self driving cars none of these recent “innovations” like that or the speed limiting would matter.
Ideally self driving cars would also be without a steering wheel and just be half width with a single seat or two seats facing each other to reduce energy requirements. You could just develop this with a manhattan style project and test it in a single city banning all other private cars except delivery vehicles.
Might as well ignore all attainable goals that would benefit society in the short term in favor of sci-fi pipe dreams that are perpetually delayed as we endlessly run into stumbling blocks.
Forget solar/wind/geothermal/etc. development as well, fusion power could happen any day now so why bother with any of that comparatively inefficient junk?
Reminded me of this Technology Connections video, in which the dude explained (among other brake-light related things) how some law allows electric vehicles to get away with not using their brake lights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0YW7x9U5TQ
I’m kind of surprised he made absolutely no mention of manual gearbox vehicles. Some of the problems he’s describing predate EVs and adaptive cruise. I have a manual car and motorcycle. I pretty regularly apply just enough to the brakes to turn the light on without engaging them during engine breaking. Engine breaking depending on gear choice can be pretty strong. Likely not as aggressive as a regenerative breaking system but more than enough to cause issues. I’m certain I’d have been rear ended if I didn’t make the lights turn on while just slowing down, not coming to a full stop.
I feel like if your car is doing anything to actively slow itself down (as in apart from just cruising) it should turn the brake lights on.
Yeah, just have an accelerometer that triggers them
Or just have it come on whenever you lift off the accelerator. I like how some cars flash the brake lights under hard braking as well. That should be more standard.
I think the flashing is actually when an assistive system triggers the break
Yeah my electric 208 is kinda like that (if I remember the video well, watched it a while ago) but since it’s Europe there actually is a regulation about how much a car can decelerate before break lights come on, so instead of making the system turn the lights on they throttle how much it can decelerate for recharge and still makes you use the break to use full regen (and eventually the actual brakes, of course). So it’s not a real “one pedal driving”.
One pedal driving just sounds like motion sickness city.
Nah not at all tbh, you can get very smooth deceleration with it and it doesn’t feel floaty or whatever, it does take a tiny adjustment to how you drive, you don’t coast anymore but rather you can finely control your deceleration by how much you lift the accelerator, it’s quite nice to be honest I always drive it in that mode (even if it’s not real one pedal).
