I rely on Bitwarden (slooowly migrating from… a spreadsheet…) and am thinking of keeping a master backup to be SyncThing-synchronized across all my devices, but I’m not sure of how to secure the SyncThing-synchronized files’ local access if any one of my Windows or Android units got stolen and somehow cracked into or something. I’m curious about how others handle theirs. Thanks in advance for sharing!
Im not sure if that’s what you mean but I just export the Bitwarden database in an encrypted json and have it backed up in cloud. I’m not sure why you need the backup synced with all devices tho
I guess it’s in cases when I may not be able to use Bitwarden, but… I suppose it can be used everywhere! Clearly, I’m new to this thing, so that’s good to know!
Oh, that changes things. So, Bitwarden can be used basically anywhere, as you said. Just log in and there you are. It’s even a website. They’re servers would have to die for it to be a problem. But that’s not a real problem actually as the app keeps a local copy on the device and every time you open the app, it syncs with their servers and updates the vault (database). So the devices are synced by default really. If you want to back it up anyway, there is a „export vault” button which you can use. If you choose with encryption it’s going to be encrypted with the master password I think :)
PS Bitwarden (company) stores only the encrypted version on their servers so that’s not an issue either
keepassxc database synced with syncthing across devices
This is the way OP. Centralised services are just too much a target for bad actors.
You already have syncthing so most of the way there.
Also built in TOTP / 2fa is pretty great.
Also built in TOTP / 2fa is pretty great.
I can’t wrap my head around how this is a good idea. Isn’t the idea of mfa to protect against password theft? If your second factor is stored with your password, how does that help anything? Honest question, I see this everywhere but can’t figure out why it’s acceptable with security-minded folks
Yeah fair question. IMO it def makes things less secure, but it’s a question of how much less?
As in, if all my passwords are “sexG0d” then 2fa is critically important, but if all my passwords are long and complex and unique then 2fa is still another layer but it’s much less critical.
Late reply, but for me personally, I started doing it because my Keepass database is already accessed using two factors (password and key file). Therefore, I’d gain very little by keeping the second factor of those sites external - essentially, those second factors are compounded into the second factor for the database.
If someone were to pinch a password through a phishing site or a key logger they would still need to unlock your .kbdx file. The way I see it, if an attacker has cracked your database, you already screwed up 20 steps ago. (Sharing your .kbdx, using a weak password for it, not changing your other passwords) I think that 2FA on a different device is too much of a hassle for how much extra security it can bring.
This is the way
I prefer another tactic if I may share:
- Database in production: let Bitwarden clients sync the native way Bitwarden offers.
- Database in backup: let a dedicated backup service keep your database save.
I dont know if this could be done automatic (just backup the production database) or if this has to be done by export (by hand once in a while).
Doesnt matter from which device the backup originates because the native sync will keep them all the same usually in seconds.
I write them on paper just because I’m very old schooled.
My wife does the same, and I can’t tell you how many times a day I have to help her reset passwords, figure out if something is an “1”, “i”, “l”, or “|”, or decide what needed to be capitalized.
Even though I have Bitwarden installed for her, she just “prefers” paper like some people prefer to stub their toes.
You should try to teach her how to be more careful and clear when writing passwords. It can be hard if she’s living in constant rush but it’s a very useful skill. And btw I just always underline capital letters. Always works
Do you stick them under your keyboard, or to the edge of your monitor?
Important ones under the keyboard, passwords 101
passwords.txton a full-disk encryption HDD.What if the HDD catches on fire or the room gets flooded while you’re not home?
I backup stuff both on a MicroSD and on web storage with
duplicity. Hopefully that is enough!web storage
Google Drive?
Bitwarden already stores a local copy on all devices you have it installed. Just make sure you load up those devices from time to time… And guess what, you are probaly already doing that with your phone and laptop (which actually contains generally 2 copies, 1 on your actual client and another for the browser extension. Add a third device for good measure and… Oh, you also have a backup on bitwarden.com, this thing literally backups itself everywhere!
Bitwarden. I would like to self host it one day (and keep that backed up) once I learn more about all that junk
Vaultwarden is super easy to set up anywhere (NAS, computer, Pi, etc). It’s as simple as firing a docker yaml, and you’re set.
I know what these words mean:
computer
These are the words I need to learn more about:
NAS pi firing docker yaml
We’ve all been there at some point.
For when you do learn the definition of those terms:
I’m agnostic about password managers, and I’m agnostic about sync’ing password repositories between devices. I believe there would be grave risks of losing access to my own repositories by misplacing their pass-phrases or bungling other kinds of authentication. I try not to put anything on portable devices that is super confidential. On the other hand, I restrict physical access to my desktop computer. I back it up continually, power it from an uninterruptible power supply, and run only a handful of server-side processes there. … so I feel safe … sort of.
I suppose it may seem heretical to members of this community, but I put all my passwords in a plain-text *.csv file on my desktop machine that I maintain with my own python script.
I don’t really understand why passwords are so hard. Take two words that have meaning to you. Two number sequences that are important. Then lastly decide on two symbols. That’s eight different passwords if you use one of each in that order, more if you want to mix the order. Now set rules to each. One word for personal one for business. One number set for fun the other for essential. The symbols are rather arbitrary but I try and stick with one for passwords I’m forced to make the other for passwords and logins I’m wanting to make. Obviously make unique passwords for any important stuff like baking and such but with this method I can log into accounts over ten years old within the first two tries. Usually it’s the user name or tag that gives me the real trouble.
Or just generate a random series of 5 words (through bitwarden) separated by the character of your choice and have a much better password that’s relatively easy to memorize.
This might have been acceptable 20 years ago but it’s not a strong enough policy today. Data theft happens all the time and it’s in the interests of a company who’s security has been breached to not tell you that your data has been taken. You should assume that at anytime someone has several examples of your login credentials, not just one. You should use a password manager that isn’t Chrome, Firefox, Safari, ect.
You entire system could be compromised quite quickly if someone figures out the pattern. It’s also susceptible to hybrid attacks.
Bitwarden has an import tool. You should be able to convert your spreadsheet into the format they like and import relatively easily.
For backups, you can create encrypted backups through bitwarden. So it shouldn’t matter if synching itself is a secure process as what your syncing is already encrypted.
if any one of my Windows or Android units got stolen and somehow cracked into or something.
This shouldn’t be a concern if you’re using disk encryption and secure passwords, which is generally the default behaviour on most systems these days.
On Android, you don’t need to worry about anything as long as you’ve got a pin/password configured, as disk encryption has been enabled by default for like a decade now.
On Windows, if you’re on the Pro/Enterprise edition, you can use Bitlocker, but if you’re on Home, you can use “device encryption” (which is like a lightweight Bitlocker) - but that requires a TPM chip and your Windows user account linked to a Microsoft account. If that is not an option, you could use VeraCrypt instead, which is an opensource disk encryption tool. Another option, if you’re on a laptop, could be Opal encryption (aka TCG Opal SED), assuming your drive/BIOS supports it.
TL;DR: Encrypt yo’ shit, and you don’t need to worry about your data if your device gets stolen.
do not do anything in this post until you have backups that you know run and work.
device encryption is fantastic.
I’m mortified to say I could certainly do more in this regard. Do you recommend a preferred method?
What matters is that the backups are done at the appropriate intervals and verified to be readable.
You can figure out what interval is appropriate. Some people have to make sure every picture is saved, some people are fine losing a month of stuff.
Verifying the backup is valid equally important. You don’t wanna find out it was misconfigured and didn’t get your user directories when you try to restore. Just open one up and look to see every once in a while.
At least fifteen years ago you could set up windows backups through the control panel > backup or something menu. Now on 10 it’s settings > updates and security > backups.
You can click add drive from there and designate a usb or something as your backup drive.
Then set an alarm to make sure you remember to do it at the designated interval.
With android the easiest thing is to sync it to a computer that gets backed up.
You can use cloud services instead of a hard drive too, but often simple and easy to understand is the best place to start.
Do you know why it’s important to have backups before using full disc encryption?
Right, I can imagine that I could lock myself out otherwise. Thanks for the walkthrough!
I have encryption enabled on my devices. If they get stolen, a casual thief isn’t going to be able to break it. At most they’ll wipe it, but they’ll probably just fence it as-is or for parts.
Bitwarden keeps a local copy of the data that can exported if something ever happened to bitwarden. If you want to keep an encrypted backup you can export the CSV and store it on an encrypted drive as a backup but not big worry about syncing it to all devices
This is the correct answer, every device you use a bitwarden-client regularly on automatically becomes a backup
KeePass on my phone and desktop, with the master file sync’d automatically to the server in my basement.
I mostly just use Firefox Sync. For critical passwords or non-web passwords and other small keys I store them in pass.
