Recently there a situation between Vaxry the developer of Hyprland and Lyude Paul a member of the Freedesktop Board and Code of Conduct enforcement team and ...
Just putting this here cause I found it a good overview of a pretty confusing situation I had no prior knowledge about
Drew DeVault: Sway and Hare creator, self-proclaimed Zig hater
FDO: FreeDesktop Organisation(?)
Warning: Not lore accurate
TL:DR;
Vaxry’s Discord server for Hyprland was filled with edgy kids, calling each other LGBTQ+ related slurs - maybe they were from the community themselves, maybe it was a boy’s locker room. It was toxic.
From what Vaxry said, a trans user was misgendering his mod staff, so their pronoun was changed to “who/cares”. That was two years ago. Drew DeVault wrote a blog about it, Vaxry was pissed, shit happened. They discuss but could not come to an agreement; however there were a few changes. Vaxry apologized later about the incident, but he was not in agreement with political correctness.
Vaxry’s policy according to him is that he does not discriminate PR on the basis of people. He also created a CoC (mentioned earlier), but not many were happy about it being vague. But then, he also made a blog against inclusivity in FOSS, and calls them SJWs as a pejorative.
Vaxry lost his marbles when he got a mail from
Lyude. Lyude used a Redhat mail, which was seen as unprofessional, and tried enforcing FDO’s CoC on Hyprland and other related project.
He sent back a passive-aggressive mail, which said “fuck off” in short. He also share Lyude’s toots in the blog about how Lyude supports bullying people for missing T in LGB, as a justification that Lyude tried bringing their past unnecessarily. Lyude sent another mail. Vaxry said that they don’t care, basically another formal “fuck off”. Finally, FDO yeeted Vaxry.
That’s it. Maybe I’ve missed a few details here and there. I did not read other’s blog, but Vaxrys’. And it isn’t looking good. In a way, this is also the abuse of power by Lyude, but looking at Vaxrys’ indifference, yeah, I wouldn’t have a positive attitude about that.
Vaxry lost his marbles when he got a mail from Lyude. Lyude used a Redhat mail, which was seen as unprofessional, and tried enforcing FDO’s CoC on Hyprland and other related project.
Given that the context was Hyprland possibly becoming a formal part of FDO, expecting Hyprland’s developers to abide by the FDO CoC in that event was a completely reasonable expectation.
I’m looking forward to when the Linux community, and society at large, has forgotten about noninclusive Transphobic assholes like this fuck.
I honestly don’t care if the work you’ve done saves the planet and proves you’re the smartest human to ever live. If Vaxry can’t understand why being sympathetic to the LGBTQ+ community by adhering to their conventions around identifying pronouns is a good thing, then he’s simply chosen to align himself with those who don’t care, i.e. Transphobic hate groups.
That’s the company he keeps now, and it might as well be who he is.
don’t care if the work you’ve done saves the planet
It’s not even that in this case. It’s a Wayland compositor not the cure for cancer. You have to be very socially tone-deaf to imagine people will overlook you being an asshole because of that. You have to be a billionaire for that to happen.
I agree, I’m just not one of those people. I’m personally very unforgiving of Nazis, Trump supporters, White Nationalists, homophobes, and transphobes, etc. etc. All the lefty wokisms right wing assholes like to dunk on you can apply to me (I don’t care, come at me bro).
And when people say, why use their products then? Like this whole boycotting of Hyprland shit. No, use Hyprland, AND make such a big deal about it on their discord server that the toxic community is shouted down. Is told THEY are not welcome. And if you lose, then you straight up call them a Transphobic right wing community. That’s what they will have become at that point. That is who they will have proven themselves to be should they be willing to turn a blind eye to hateful rhetoric.
Ignoring hate speech is endorsing hate speech. I invite anyone to prove me wrong.
I agree but what I find weird is the fact that they treat humans like this. I mean I get missgendering or refusing to call someone by their pronouns but dehumanising someone for who they are is fucked up.
Misgendering someone by mistake is just an understandable misunderstanding. Misgendering someone on purpose is a form of hate speech or at best, willful ignorance. It is a not so subtle way of dehumanizing them in not recognizing them as who are.
Why would it be hate speech? I’m not doing it because I hate anyone, I just don’t have enough fucks in the bag. I don’t mean it’s a subtle way of dehumanising, I mean that what they do calling people slurs and telling them to kill themselves etc etc is fucked up.
Why would it be hate speech? I’m not doing it because I hate anyone, I just don’t have enough fucks in the bag.
You’re unwillingness to do the bare minimum of simply addressing someone by their preferred pronouns means you’re either okay with misgendering people or you intentionally want to.
If, however you mean what you say in that you don’t intend to dehumanize those who wish to be called by their preferred pronouns, then I highly suggest you find those fucks and give them.
Its not an urge. It’s a correction. If I tell you my name isn’t Joe, it’s John, and you continue to call me Joe, I’ll have to assume you’re either crazy forgetful or purposefully being an asshole.
If I tell you I’m not he/him, but she/her, and you continue to call me he/him, it’s the same thing. Prove me wrong.
TLDW: read all the blog posts, all the discussions and make your own opinion. I lost 15 minutes of my life and didn’t become any more informed or smarter.
FDO decided that they didn’t like vaxry’s community and told him to fix or action will be taken against him (Banning from FDO) for violating their (FDO’s)
Vaxry said, This is my community, It’s not an FDO project, and is not under control of FDO, Doesn’t fall under purview of FDO’s COC, I will not be bullied. And posted the interaction.
FDO’s COC committy didn’t like that and banned vaxry from FDO.
Time for my personal bias Im not sure how I can hide this other then spoiler, but ignore it if you don’t want my very bias opinion;
spoiler
FDO for sure over stepped their bounds. FDO did wrongfully invoke their COC against hyprland’s community, Their COC is extremely clear on it’s “scope” https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/CodeOfConduct/ under which hyprland absolutely doesn’t fall under. That being said, OFC FDO retains the right to ban anyone from their services as they please (I’ll explain why this is extremely bad below). But they invoked the COC which is extremely important here.
Vaxry absolutely acted unprofessionally in publicizing this, on the other hand, I’m really glad he did because it’s insane that FDO is attacking the hyprland community in the first place, which is an extremely self isolating community. It’s very much “what happens in the discord is a discord thing”. Outside of the discord, hyprland community is perfectly fine. I’ve not seen a single “Hyprland fan” go around shitting on anything else (granted this is hard to judge since you need to be given context of someone shitting on something, to be a hyprland fan), on the contary, I have seen many people publically shittying on vaxry on multiple forums.
FDO was in their right to ban Vaxry for publicizing the emails, but I don’t think it was a good idea at all. They essentially punished Vaxry for airing their dirty laundry. Proving him right in the end. It’s important to note, that given context, Drew’s articles on Vaxry are insanely biased against him, with the intent to drum up hate towards vaxry (going so far as to imply Vaxry would call people the N-Word when giving support to people by using extremely misleading and cherry picked context)
The original emails are best explained by vaxry himself so check out his blog.
In the end, Vaxry acted unprofessionally and got banned for it, but FDO acted equally unprofessionally, and their actions greatly overstepped the rights they had (as far as enforcing COC goes, their original email)
Now WHY is FDO banning vaxry so important? Pretty much everything that matters in terms of linux gui development is on FDO’s services. Wayland protocol discussion, Mesa, Wlroots etc. by banning vaxry from these services, he is pretty much no longer able to directly interact with the wayland community. (At least not without ban evasion or someone else acting as a proxy)
Thanks. A lot of drama then. I’ve been in the discord and on github for a while and from that I can tell vaxry has a bit of a “personality”, as many good developers have. Nothing wrong with that. I like Hyprland a lot, I have been using it daily for 2 years or so and any bugs I reported got fixed really fast. In the end it is a solid project and that’s what really matters.
Well, having read his blog for a while Drew DeVault could certainly also be described as “having a bit of a ‘personality’”. Seems communities tend to form around people who have strong opinions on many things and sometimes those opinions clash. That in itself isn’t really an issue though, mostly it becomes more of a problem the larger the scope of opinions discussed becomes as there is more potential for conflict that can not be resolved because it touches on core world view aspects of one or both people involved.
It’s extremely important to watch all points referenced, Devault very intentionally picked things that vaxry did to make it sound a lot worse then he is. That’s not to say vaxry is a saint, he sure as shit ain’t. But he is no where near as bad as drew wants people to believe. Drew has outright lied multiple times in his posts about Vaxry, and what isn’t lied abput most of the context is manipulated to make it seem way worse then it is
You sound like you would be an awesome addition to any community really. I take it you went all in on this thing?
I’m not picking sides, defending anyone nor do I give a flying fuck about all this drama. I only shared my observations. As long as I can keep using Hyprland I’m happy. And if not, another cool tiling wm will popup. Bye!
Why does everything have to be a video these days ffs. What’s the tl;dr?
Its a video sharing his opinion on the topic. If you just wanted to know what happened he linked all of the articles…
Cast:
Warning: Not lore accurate
TL:DR;
Vaxry’s Discord server for Hyprland was filled with edgy kids, calling each other LGBTQ+ related slurs - maybe they were from the community themselves, maybe it was a boy’s locker room. It was toxic.
From what Vaxry said, a trans user was misgendering his mod staff, so their pronoun was changed to “who/cares”. That was two years ago. Drew DeVault wrote a blog about it, Vaxry was pissed, shit happened. They discuss but could not come to an agreement; however there were a few changes. Vaxry apologized later about the incident, but he was not in agreement with political correctness.
Vaxry’s policy according to him is that he does not discriminate PR on the basis of people. He also created a CoC (mentioned earlier), but not many were happy about it being vague. But then, he also made a blog against inclusivity in FOSS, and calls them SJWs as a pejorative.
Vaxry lost his marbles when he got a mail from Lyude. Lyude used a Redhat mail, which was seen as unprofessional, and tried enforcing FDO’s CoC on Hyprland and other related project.
He sent back a passive-aggressive mail, which said “fuck off” in short. He also share Lyude’s toots in the blog about how Lyude supports bullying people for missing T in LGB, as a justification that Lyude tried bringing their past unnecessarily. Lyude sent another mail. Vaxry said that they don’t care, basically another formal “fuck off”. Finally, FDO yeeted Vaxry.
That’s it. Maybe I’ve missed a few details here and there. I did not read other’s blog, but Vaxrys’. And it isn’t looking good. In a way, this is also the abuse of power by Lyude, but looking at Vaxrys’ indifference, yeah, I wouldn’t have a positive attitude about that.
Source:
Extras:
Given that the context was Hyprland possibly becoming a formal part of FDO, expecting Hyprland’s developers to abide by the FDO CoC in that event was a completely reasonable expectation.
I’m looking forward to when the Linux community, and society at large, has forgotten about noninclusive Transphobic assholes like this fuck.
I honestly don’t care if the work you’ve done saves the planet and proves you’re the smartest human to ever live. If Vaxry can’t understand why being sympathetic to the LGBTQ+ community by adhering to their conventions around identifying pronouns is a good thing, then he’s simply chosen to align himself with those who don’t care, i.e. Transphobic hate groups.
That’s the company he keeps now, and it might as well be who he is.
It’s not even that in this case. It’s a Wayland compositor not the cure for cancer. You have to be very socially tone-deaf to imagine people will overlook you being an asshole because of that. You have to be a billionaire for that to happen.
I agree, I’m just not one of those people. I’m personally very unforgiving of Nazis, Trump supporters, White Nationalists, homophobes, and transphobes, etc. etc. All the lefty wokisms right wing assholes like to dunk on you can apply to me (I don’t care, come at me bro).
And when people say, why use their products then? Like this whole boycotting of Hyprland shit. No, use Hyprland, AND make such a big deal about it on their discord server that the toxic community is shouted down. Is told THEY are not welcome. And if you lose, then you straight up call them a Transphobic right wing community. That’s what they will have become at that point. That is who they will have proven themselves to be should they be willing to turn a blind eye to hateful rhetoric.
Ignoring hate speech is endorsing hate speech. I invite anyone to prove me wrong.
I agree but what I find weird is the fact that they treat humans like this. I mean I get missgendering or refusing to call someone by their pronouns but dehumanising someone for who they are is fucked up.
Misgendering someone by mistake is just an understandable misunderstanding. Misgendering someone on purpose is a form of hate speech or at best, willful ignorance. It is a not so subtle way of dehumanizing them in not recognizing them as who are.
Why would it be hate speech? I’m not doing it because I hate anyone, I just don’t have enough fucks in the bag. I don’t mean it’s a subtle way of dehumanising, I mean that what they do calling people slurs and telling them to kill themselves etc etc is fucked up.
Learn to give some fucks or don’t come back to lemmy.ml.
You’re unwillingness to do the bare minimum of simply addressing someone by their preferred pronouns means you’re either okay with misgendering people or you intentionally want to.
If, however you mean what you say in that you don’t intend to dehumanize those who wish to be called by their preferred pronouns, then I highly suggest you find those fucks and give them.
The fact that we live in a society, where someone feels the urge to tell me how to gender them, and expects me to do so, is just absurd.
How silly would it be if I were to tell everyone I meet to call me “your Highness” or else I’d be pissed and throw a tantrum.
Its not an urge. It’s a correction. If I tell you my name isn’t Joe, it’s John, and you continue to call me Joe, I’ll have to assume you’re either crazy forgetful or purposefully being an asshole.
If I tell you I’m not he/him, but she/her, and you continue to call me he/him, it’s the same thing. Prove me wrong.
So basically a cancerous organization meets a toxic community?
Awesome entertainment for hours!
*grabs popcorn*
TLDW: read all the blog posts, all the discussions and make your own opinion. I lost 15 minutes of my life and didn’t become any more informed or smarter.
I did a quick search but only found a deleted reddit post lol.
Trying to remain unbias, the super TLDR;
Time for my personal bias Im not sure how I can hide this other then spoiler, but ignore it if you don’t want my very bias opinion;
spoiler
FDO for sure over stepped their bounds. FDO did wrongfully invoke their COC against hyprland’s community, Their COC is extremely clear on it’s “scope” https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/CodeOfConduct/ under which hyprland absolutely doesn’t fall under. That being said, OFC FDO retains the right to ban anyone from their services as they please (I’ll explain why this is extremely bad below). But they invoked the COC which is extremely important here.
Vaxry absolutely acted unprofessionally in publicizing this, on the other hand, I’m really glad he did because it’s insane that FDO is attacking the hyprland community in the first place, which is an extremely self isolating community. It’s very much “what happens in the discord is a discord thing”. Outside of the discord, hyprland community is perfectly fine. I’ve not seen a single “Hyprland fan” go around shitting on anything else (granted this is hard to judge since you need to be given context of someone shitting on something, to be a hyprland fan), on the contary, I have seen many people publically shittying on vaxry on multiple forums.
FDO was in their right to ban Vaxry for publicizing the emails, but I don’t think it was a good idea at all. They essentially punished Vaxry for airing their dirty laundry. Proving him right in the end. It’s important to note, that given context, Drew’s articles on Vaxry are insanely biased against him, with the intent to drum up hate towards vaxry (going so far as to imply Vaxry would call people the N-Word when giving support to people by using extremely misleading and cherry picked context)
The original emails are best explained by vaxry himself so check out his blog.
In the end, Vaxry acted unprofessionally and got banned for it, but FDO acted equally unprofessionally, and their actions greatly overstepped the rights they had (as far as enforcing COC goes, their original email)
Now WHY is FDO banning vaxry so important? Pretty much everything that matters in terms of linux gui development is on FDO’s services. Wayland protocol discussion, Mesa, Wlroots etc. by banning vaxry from these services, he is pretty much no longer able to directly interact with the wayland community. (At least not without ban evasion or someone else acting as a proxy)
Thanks. A lot of drama then. I’ve been in the discord and on github for a while and from that I can tell vaxry has a bit of a “personality”, as many good developers have. Nothing wrong with that. I like Hyprland a lot, I have been using it daily for 2 years or so and any bugs I reported got fixed really fast. In the end it is a solid project and that’s what really matters.
Let’s hope this thing blows over quickly.
Well, having read his blog for a while Drew DeVault could certainly also be described as “having a bit of a ‘personality’”. Seems communities tend to form around people who have strong opinions on many things and sometimes those opinions clash. That in itself isn’t really an issue though, mostly it becomes more of a problem the larger the scope of opinions discussed becomes as there is more potential for conflict that can not be resolved because it touches on core world view aspects of one or both people involved.
It’s extremely important to watch all points referenced, Devault very intentionally picked things that vaxry did to make it sound a lot worse then he is. That’s not to say vaxry is a saint, he sure as shit ain’t. But he is no where near as bad as drew wants people to believe. Drew has outright lied multiple times in his posts about Vaxry, and what isn’t lied abput most of the context is manipulated to make it seem way worse then it is
Oh a real life member of the hyprland community, let’s see if the rumors are true.
Well, that’s some first-grade bigot apologia. I guess that discord really is bigot central.
Is it because your little clubhouse is drawing too much negative attention?
You sound like you would be an awesome addition to any community really. I take it you went all in on this thing?
I’m not picking sides, defending anyone nor do I give a flying fuck about all this drama. I only shared my observations. As long as I can keep using Hyprland I’m happy. And if not, another cool tiling wm will popup. Bye!
From Vaxry’s second blogpost:
I didn’t dug any deeper, but it seems like Lyude also published the communication between her an Vaxry, if I understand it correctly.
What is Vaxry and FDO? Not like you can google FDO…
@MonkderDritte @drwankingstein FDO is: https://www.freedesktop.org/
freedesktop.org
And Vaxry is the maintainer of the Hyprland project if I got my bearings right.
FDO is FreeDesktop dot Org, the XDG people
Vaxry is an asshole (the Hyprland maintainer)
So is the FDO person
The discord did change
it has changed and what annoys him is people taking that one incident and speaking like it happens daily
People change