The other day, my parents asked me (22M) if there were any women that I find attractive (I guess because they’re paranoid about me being gay lol) and I told them yes, there’s a fair number of women that I’ve seen in public that I’ve found attractive.
They asked me, “Do you talk to any of them?” and I said “No??? It’s inappropriate to approach women in public unless you have business with them.”
I told them that it is only appropriate for a man to talk to a woman he doesn’t know when the social situation is explicitly designed for meeting strangers—dating apps, hobby groups, meeting friends of friends, etc. In my view, cold approaching women you don’t know just because you’re attracted to them is harassment.
My parents told me that I’m being ridiculous and making excuses because I’m nervous. They are adamant that I need to learn to approach women or else I will never find a partner. I told them that times have changed and this is disrespectful and potentially predatory behavior along the lines of unsolicited flirting and catcalling. Approaching women is a violation of their personal space and could make them feel very uncomfortable, especially if they feel like they don’t have an easy way out.
My parents are almost 60 and they are very conservative, so they don’t exactly follow progressive discourse, and I feel like they’re super out of touch on this as a result. Particularly, my mom tends to strike up conversations with other women in public, and she’s skeptical when I tell her that I can’t do the same thing because I’m a man and would be viewed as a potential predator.
But I also don’t get out much, which makes me second-guess how distorted my understanding of the social world is from reality. My parents are like a broken clock, and sometimes they DO have a point about something despite 90% of their opinions being insane. Maybe there is a more nuanced reality that I’m not picking up on.
So I wanted to ask here. Are my parents out of touch? Am I out of touch? Are we both wrong? I want to know your opinion.
Woman here who gets approached from time to time… casual chats are fine and low-key expressing interest is ok. The least stressful approaches I’ve had are when a guy sends his buddy over to expression interest. So you can appease your parents by asking a friend to make the approach on your behalf, maybe.
If you wouldn’t strike up a conversation with a guy, don’t strike up a conversation with a woman. Be comfortable with conversations with strangers of whatever gender with no ulterior motive, and you’ll meet more people.
If you meet more people, your likelihood of finding dates will increase as a side effect.
If you are only approaching women, particularly women you find attractive, in places that are not generally for that purpose (bars, parties, swingers clubs), then you’re being a creep.
But regardless, it’s better to have interests, pursue those interests, and meet people with similar interests. Because when you have interests, you might become interesting, and someone might become interested.
I agree with everything else but the starting bit about only starting conversations when you’d also do it with a guy: if you’re not into guys… like on a dating site you’d not equally talk to the men, why at a sports club if you’re wanting a relationship with a woman? If you think someone’s fun and attractive in a way you’d simply not have with a bloke, hecking yes talk to them where appropriate and be friends (if they also want to be) and see if they really match and are also into you etc.
I think they meant “if you’re only approaching people you want to fuck, you’re not going to find success”
I’ll just say you probably shouldn’t take dating advice from people who haven’t done any dating for the last 30-40 years. The world has most certainly changed.
People are allowed to speak to one another in public. Just be respectful of people’s cues, and that goes for people of all genders.
I disagree. While certainly some things differ between generations, human nature is still the same and the world in many regards isn’t all that different from 40 years ago.
I don’t know OP’s parents so I can’t speak to them specifically, but I wouldn’t automatically discount someone’s opinion just because they’re a couple decades older.
The process of “courtship”, if you want to call it that, is definitely something that has changed dramatically between generations.
Your parents never had to bother with things like a woman specifying a time to “debut”, meeting with suitors under the supervision of an elder, the taboo of an unmarried couple being alone before marriage, the obligation for a woman’s family to put together a dowry, etc.
I mean, women in most of the west have only had political agency for just shy of 100 years, and even less than that as “equal” members of the workforce. Social dynamics have radically changed over the past several generations, and are continuing to change even now.
There was some indeterminate point in western society when advice like “You know what would really win her over? Duel her most eligible suitor” universally stopped being good advice, and the same is happening today with many of the dating strategies our parents grew up with.
OP’s parents are in their sixties; they probably were born in the mid '50s to mid '60s and started dating in the '70s/'80s. Courtship probably didn’t factor in unless they’re Mormons or something.
Edit: I re-read and realized OP said his parents are almost 60, meaning almost definitely started their dating lives in the '80s.
Right, I just mean the concept of “courtship” (if broken down to the basic concept of starting a long-term romantic relationship) has evolved to the point that it is dated to even refer to dating as “courtship” anymore. I would take any dating advice from someone considerably older with a hefty grain of salt. Sex is human nature, but dating is a constantly-evolving system of social norms that most people won’t experience outside of their own generation.
The world has changed, but this particular piece of advice is timeless. I approach people I want to talk to in real life every day, multiple times a day. No one is ever offended by it, literally ever. The reason women get offended over men approaching is because they do this thing where they approach the woman as an object, leading with their sexual desire, as if the woman is obligated to satisfy them simply because the man feels attracted. It’s a recipe for disaster.
Listen, men, there’s nothing wrong with being sexually attracted to a woman. But approach her as a human being first. Be considerate of how she’s feeling, pay attention to her boundaries, and be respectful. Of course, at some point, you need to express your interest, and it’s better to be transparent about that rather than creepy. If you are motivated by sexual interest, her intuition will tell her that long before you think it will, so no sense in hiding it. But as a general rule, never outpace the level of reciprocation she’s given you.
That means, don’t walk up to a stranger who isn’t making eye contact with you and tell her you want to fuck her. Don’t even ask for her number. First, make eye contact. If she makes eye contact back, you can proceed to the next step. Say hi. If she says hi back, you can introduce yourself. If she reciprocates by introducing herself, you can ask a question or tell her something. After you’ve had a conversation, you can ask for her number, or suggest a date. But take it one step at a time. If you take two steps ahead and she hasn’t reciprocated, that’s when you’re gonna get into trouble. If she stops reciprocating, stop escalating. If she expresses a boundary or discomfort, thank her for letting you know, and back off.
TLDR; approach! But slow the fuck down and pay attention to if she’s comfortable and reciprocating. Respect her boundaries. You honestly won’t go wrong with that approach.
I’ve approached about 800 women a year, for the past 4 years and the worst thing that’s happened is that my ego got a little bit hurt a few times when they said no thank you. Zero drama, zero anger, zero cancellation. And I’m just an average looking ginger dude.
Don’t worry, at OPs rate he’ll never be dating
So, this is one of the unfortunate traps of our time, especially if you live in a place with car dependent sprawl. Women don’t want to be solicited while at work or on personal business (groceries, gym, etc), and, really, nobody does. You want to work at work, and you want to do your business and go home otherwise. This goes doubly or triply so for complete strangers. There’s really no third places (as they’re called) left, where people go for the express purpose of being social and together. That’s what’s missing here. As someone else said, you are, unfortunately, both a little right.
It’s particularly bad in places like the US that have car dependent sprawl because
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cities often have had their zoning ordinances weaponized by NIMBYs, and it’s probably outright illegal to have a small cafe or shop in your neighborhood, or they’re required to have some outrageous parking minimum or something like that.
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driving sucks more than you may be aware of while you’re doing it. If you have to get into your car to go to the grocery, you don’t want to make five stops at smaller grocers throughout the week; you’d rather just make one big stop at the big box mart and just go tf home. If you want to stop at a cafe, well, just swing through the starbucks drive through so you don’t have to be bothered with getting out.
Well, chances are that most of your interactions at chain businesses and stores are anonymous, so you’re not meeting other people in your community there, you’re not creating any bonds or relationships there, you’re doing your business and getting out, which, frankly, is what they want. You’re especially not making any friends in the drive thru line. For nearly seventy years now, we’ve built our cities to be homes to cars, not people, and it’s bearing fruit in the form of the loneliness epidemic.
My advice to you would be to go out of your way to find situations where people are getting together for the purpose of being social or having fun. Look for classes put on by your local city parks, go check your local library’s bulletin board for events, check social media communities for your nearby city or town for groups that meet regularly. If you’re religious, seek out some religious institutions that you find palatable.
Women don’t want to be solicited while at work or on personal business (groceries, gym, etc),
But they’re fine being solicited while
classes put on by your local city parks, local library’s events, nearby city or town for groups that meet regularly?
Maybe I’m too autistic to understand, but unless those groups are specifically meant for finding a date, it seems to be functionally the same as “personal business.” They’re not interested in being solicited, they just want to have class at class, or book club at book club, or talk about town planning (or whatever these enigmatic town meetings contain) at the meetings. What makes them so different? Even if they’re there to talk (like a book club,) they’re there to talk about books not dating me.
The main difference is that they’re there specifically for the social experience. These folks are not going there to date you, no, but they are going there to socialize, so the barriers to socializing with strangers are greatly lowered. Maybe don’t just go there with dating front and center in your mind; instead focus on just meeting and getting to know people.
I suppose, could be.
Though tbf, I don’t go anywhere “with dating front and center in my mind,” I go places for reasons, and sometimes while at these places I see someone I think is cute and also looks maybe cool, and then dating pops into my mind, like, “oh shit they’re cute, and they look like they might be cool, I wonder if they’d be into me and if it could work out.” Dating is put into my mind by nature of seeing someone I may be interested in dating.
Is that not normal?
That sounds pretty normal to me. Though, in total fairness, I’m ADHD myself, so I feel a lot of what you’ve been saying here. Especially being hyper aware of the social meta. I’ve also learned a lot of advanced masking over the years. Yeah, definitely, if you’re at a social event and someone catches your interest, just start with going and meeting them. Introduce yourself, and a small heartfelt compliment doesn’t hurt, “hey, that was a good question, I wish I’d thought of that”, for example. Also, asking low-risk questions about other people is a good way to endear them to you, “is this your first time going to this class/club? Oh? What got you interested in it?” Etc. These are all pretty good ways to start getting a conversation going so you can get a feel for that person. If it turns out you like that person, you can always offer to trade contact info so you can keep talking, or ask if you could meet somewhere (specific like “the library” or “that coffee shop”) public at a specific time to chat; people tend to be more receptive if you have something specific you want to chat about, even if it’s “getting to know you”. It’s also usually better to put that off until after a second encounter in public, I think. Last, If they ask if it’s a date, be up front, only say “no” or “it doesn’t have to be” if you really mean it. Ofc, YMMV. Best of luck!
very well said. just moved away from Dallas for this very reason. it’s strange to be living right on top of so many people and yet paradoxically feel so isolated from all of them. cars are a scourge on human health in nearly every way imaginable
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You are both right and you’re both wrong.
I’m right in the middle of yours and your parents age. The dating scene is complete shit today compared to when your parents were in it. I don’t believe they’re likely recognizing how different shit is today vs 30-40 years ago.
I feel like the viewpoint you’re coming from is calculated, safe and fairly accurate for the experiences you’ve likely had in your teen years and early 20’s. More often than not, sticking with what you’ve been doing is going to be considered the more socially graceful, generally appropriate baseline behavior in today’s dating world.
If you were to take the opposite approach, and approach women in places that you’ve previously considered socially unacceptable, there’s a good chance you’d have some success and a good chance you’d deal with some awkward rejections too.
If I were you, I’d try putting myself outside of my comfort zone a couple of times, maybe a city two hours away from where you live. If you’re into anime or comics, go to a con and approach women you’d be uncomfortable approaching otherwise. If you’re into reading at all, go to a bookstore and do this. Everyone needs to eat, supposedly the grocery store is fair game.
Do some social experimenting. Safer to figure out things a bit away from home though if you’re nervous.
It depends on the context but generally no.
Just learn to talk to all people in social situations, and don’t make it transactional.
The right people will just drop into your life naturally.
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Think the best advice is that when you talk to a woman in public you should have a reason besides her being a woman in public. Like if a man approached me because he thought my shirt looked cool or he saw me reading a book he liked that’s a fine bit of casual conversation. If he just point blank asked if I had a boyfriend as if that’s the only reason a woman wouldn’t want to date a random man she knows nothing about I’d tell him that was none of his business.
I think you have a point, but also you’ve cranked that point to 11. Possibly 12.
Like yes, women can be really infuriated by how often they get hit on. I know the main reason my wife wanted a stereotypical wedding ring with a single diamond was that “it’ll keep the flies away”
But also… people interact with you in public. It’s like… a property of public spaces. Indeed talking to my wife in a public space is how we met.
The way you make it sound from your description would be that asking some woman directions would be a social fopah. Hell, where does just “having a conversation” land for you then? If you leave without asking for a number, is it different?
There’s a difference between idle chit chat and approaching like Johnny Bravo.
Faux pas, hehe never seen it as fopah
I gave up because I was typing on my phone.
?huh? there’s no x in foh pa. “fox paws” pls be serious sir
Im sorry, im just a goose.
I think you’re both a little right. Yeah, they grew up in a world where it was generally more socially acceptable to approach strange women on the street than it is today. But that doesn’t mean that you’re never allowed to do it, either.
I think it’d be good to takeaway a bit of both arguments. Yes, you shouldn’t harass women on the street, but also it’s totally fine to talk to women as long as you’re respectful and take the hint if they’re not interested.
I think the key difference is approaching them to try and “pick them up” versus approaching for a conversation. The former can be creepy and inappropriate while the latter is less so (depending on your demeanor and the situation).
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First, they need to find better things to worry about. pressing this is exactly how you end up with regrettable relationships. Second, ignore the gender. Treat women like people. If a situation comes up, like someone makes a scene at the front of a line you are both in, strike up a conversation about that. See where it goes. Lasting things occur organically. That being said, “she’s hot and I want to be inside her” is not a good enough reason to strike up a conversation with someone. Appreciate the sight but don’t try to capitalize on it.
It is an important skill and confidence booster to approach people in general in public. If you are uncomfortable with women, then start with men.
If that is still uncomfortable, then that means you are uncomfortable to talking with strangers in general. Unfortunately, experience is the only way to combat this. Start small with chit chat in lines, compliment people on their shoes, etc.
Instructions unclear, now paying for a gay wedding.
I met almost all of my previous girlfriends (including my now wife) either at parties my friends threw, or hobbies I was interested in. I never once went to a club to pick people up or try to meet people intentionally in public. That’s always seemed too creepy for me.
Women are just people.
If you learn to talk to men you don’t know, you’ll learn to talk to women you don’t know. It’s not inappropriate unless you’re trying to get something out of the situation. So don’t. Just make some new friends. Of both sexes.
As for when/where, find some hobbies. Go do the hobbies. You’ll meet people at the hobbies. Some of those people will be ladies.
It’s inappropriate to approach women in public unless you have business with them."
What are you Amish?
We’re autistic bro
