I left 10 years ago and decided to come back to see if things have improved.
It’s 90% there, but there are still too many bugs and quirks that think I I’m going to go back to Windows.
I started my reintroduction to Linux using Mint. Mint is pretty good, but the UX design was terrible and the “start menu” would lose its relative aspect ratio and my 4k monitor would display a 400x200 pixel start menu. Also, when trying to install apps using flatpak, the results was convoluted. I am trying to install tailscale. Why are there so many results? Which one do I need? Maybe this one?.. Nope, not that. How do I uninstall it? Installing apps was a chore and I couldn’t get anything to run correctly.
Switched over to Pop OS which is what I’m using to post this. Oh man, its so much better than Mint. Apps install like I expect from a Windows machine and uninstall the same way. Just 2 options for Tailscale with descriptions on which one fits me better.
But there are so many quirks. The multitouch trackpad is great. The 4 finger workspace swap is amazing. 2 finger “back” button works great too. Except it doesn’t translate to anything else. Firefox/Chome/Edge doesn’t recognize the back gestures. So, I spent 30 minutes looking for a solution which led me to touchegg, which is available in the Pop Store. But after trying to install it, it freezes my computer. No worries, try again. Freeze again. Arg… that’s annoying. Whatever, my mouse back button works. I’ll live without the touchpad feature.
Install all my productivity programs (zoom, slack, office, etc) for some reason it takes forever to install these and there is a constant lag between installs that persists across all apps. Where is the progress on all the apps I selected to install? Why must I research the app to see if its done or frozen. Whatever, I only need to do this once.
I start working on my new system and I don’t really notice much of a difference between working on my Win11 machine vs Pop OS since most of my work is on a browser. After a few hours of working, I walk away for a few hours. I come back and the system is sleeping. I push the keyboard and mouse to wake it up and it’s not waking up. The power button doesn’t work either. I hard reset the system and lose some work that wasn’t on the browser. I’m super annoyed now. I spend the next hour trying to figure out how to fix my sleep issue and have yet to figure it out.
I’m running these OSs on a Dell Precision i7 with an NVIDIA dedicated card and 32gb of ram. Should I give up or is there another distro that is more turnkey?
OP, you need to understand that you are leaving your confort zone and things might not work and that’s okay. You can have plenty of issues with Windows as well but I think we’re just trained to ignore them or assume it not the OS’s fault.
I’ve had this sleep issue once with arch and I think that’s related with a lack of swap memory. Did you configure it?
Regarding issues with programs that you use like Slack etc, If it takes too long you there might have something wrong too. I never used Mint so I have no idea on what Pop Store is but I would go away to search for the packages on their official websites.
If you don’t have the patience to learn a new OS just don’t do it. You’re not obligated to do so, you’re not inferior because of it and you are free to choose what is better for you. I do feel better using Linux these days because I am honestly very tired on MS making decisions on what’s what’s best and I enjoy fixing issues by myself.
I think you wording might offend a lot of people here because Linux and open source is almost a lifestyle for a lot of people, so if you need help staying it might be more productive to calm down and elaborate on your isssues in the future.
This is what I was about to write hahaha
If the OP is looking to do things like he does in Windows, just use Windows. I’ve been daily driving MacOS, Linux and Windows (which I fully dropped a few weeks ago) and I have a different workflow in each one. You can’t expect the same behavior/approach in a different OS (in Linux, even in different distros).
In the end, just use what works for you. If you wanna try something else, the “easier” path is to just adjust to that OS, unless you are into customizing it to whatever you are used to, what does not seem to be the interest of the OP.
But I have to say, it is a pain in the ass whenever to be judged because you like/dislike and operating system. Just live your life hahaha
I went into this project understanding that I need to spend some time to make it work for my workflow.
For the sleep issue, I tried this command sudo kernelstub -a mem_sleep_default=deep
It didn’t seem to work. I ran out of ideas to try and got frustrated. How do I configure the swap memory?
Thank you, but I’m very calm. I just didn’t realize how sensitive the Linux community is with their lifestyle.
Swap is only required if you want to hibernate your system, it’s the linux equivalent of
hiberfil.syson windows. When hibernating, the kernel freezes all processes and writes the contents of the RAM to swap (usually a separate partition on the disk), where it can be restored from on the next boot. Since you have issues with sleep/suspend, adding swap won’t help you here, and I also assume PopOS configures swap automatically during the install process anyway. (Also, swap is used as additional memoty in case the RAM is full, so it also functions as thepagefile.sysequivalent.)Anyway, suspend/sleep may fail due to various reasons. It doesn’t work on my desktop (same symptoms you also have), but works fine on my laptop. The command you executed (
sudo kernelstub …) adds a kernel parameter to your bootloader, that advises your kernel to use S3 sleep instead of modern standby (S2Idle), see this wiki article for the differences: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Power_management/Suspend_and_hibernateSince the kernel is only loaded when you start the PC, my question is: Did you restart your PC after running the command? Check via
cat /proc/cmdline, whether the parameter is present. You can also configure this while the system is running viaecho deep > /sys/power/mem_sleep(needs to be run as root, i.e. login as root viasudo -ibefore running it). See also: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Power_management/Suspend_and_hibernate#Changing_suspend_methodIf you use a desktop PC I would honestly just disable automatic suspend via the PopOS system settings. If you use a laptop on the other hand, I can understand why you would want sleep to work. You can try reading the Arch Wiki article I linked, it contains a lot of information regarding sleep, but keep in mind that the instructions there are for Arch Linux, not for PopOS, so if the Arch Wiki advises you to change something, you’d have to look up the PopOS way of doing that. Unfortunately I don’t have any further hints I could give you, but I hope this information at least helped you to understand some of the terminology. Best of luck!
This was very informative. I am not very knowledgeable so I just assumed it might be related to swap (since I had this issue before configuring it and never again afterwards).
I assumed sleep/suspend would work kind of the same as hibernate. Thank you for your knowledge!
Wow, I never considered swap. I’ve had this problem with my laptop for the last year. I’ll fix this, thank you.
Please return to windows.
You’re going into the small annoyances that make Linux unproductive and not suitable for desktop - at least when you want to get some job done. People will proceed to downvote you and tell you to try 1000x different distros and the end result will be essentially the same…
Because I’m no exception to this rule, I will advise you get Debian + GNOME and install all software via flatpack/flathub. This way you’ll have a very solid and stable system and all the latest software that can be installed, updated and removed without polluting your base system.
Now I’m gonna tell you what nobody talks about when moving to Linux:
- The “what you go for it’s entirely your choice” mantra when it comes to DE is total BS. What happens is that you’ll find out while you can use any DE in fact GNOME will provide a better experience because most applications on Linux are design / depend on its components. Using KDE/XFCE is fun until you run into some GTK/libadwaita application and small issues start to pop here and there, windows that don’t pick on your theme or you just created a frankenstein of a system composed by KDE + a bunch of GTK components;
- I hope you don’t require “professional” software such as MS Office, Adobe Apps, Autodesk, NI Circuit Design and whatnot. The alternatives wont cut it if you require serious collaboration and virtualization, emulation (wine) may work but won’t be nice. Going for Linux kinda adds the same pains of going macOS but 10x. Once you open the virtualization door your productivity suffers greatly, your CPU/RAM requirements are higher and suddenly you’ve to deal with issues in two operating systems instead of just one. And… let’s face it, nothing with GPU acceleration will ever run decently unless big companies start fixing things - GPU passthroughs and getting video back into the main system are a pain and add delays;
- Proprietary/non-Linux apps provide good features, support and have tons of hours of dev time and continuous updates that the FOSS alternatives can’t just match.
- Linux was the worst track ever of supporting old software, even worse than Apple;
- Half of the success of Windows and macOS is the fact that they provide solid and stable APIs and development tools that “make it easy” to develop for those platforms and Linux is very bad at that. The major pieces of Linux are constantly and ever changing requiring large and frequent re-works of apps. There aren’t distribution “sponsored” IDEs (like Visual Studio or Xcode), userland API documentation, frameworks etc.;
- The beautiful desktop you see online are bullshit with a very few exceptions. Most are just carefully designed screenshots but once you install the theme you’ll find out visual inconsistencies all over the place, missing icons and all kinds of crap that makes Microsoft look good;
- Be ready to spend A LOT of time to make basic things work. Have coffee and alcohol (preferably strong) at your disposal all the time.
(Wine for all the greatness it delivers still sucks and it hurts because it’s true).
If one lives in a bubble and doesn’t to collaborate with others then native Linux apps might work and might even deliver a decent workflow with performance. Once collaboration with Windows/Mac users is required then it’s game over – the “alternatives” aren’t just up to it.
Windows licenses are cheap and things work out of the box. Software runs fine, all vendors support whatever you’re trying to do and you’re productive from day zero. Sure, there are annoyances from time to time, but they’re way fewer and simpler to deal with than the hoops you’ve to go through to get a minimal and viable/productive Linux desktop experience.
It all comes down to a question of how much time (days? months?) you want to spend fixing things on Linux that simply work out of the box under Windows for a minimal fee. Buy a Windows license and spend the time you would’ve spent dealing with Linux issues doing your actual job and you’ll, most likely, get a better ROI.
I have been working on Windows, macOS and Linux. And I never learned more than working with Linux, as I am a programmer, every debugging tool or programming tool (unless for apple) works perfectly and natively, as docker that runs natively without real emulators like WSL that gives you more issues with your contained apps and developments.
About DE, MacOS DE sucks, you can’t even grid Windows… Windows DE is much better but still, their shell sucks, terminals sucks, lack of customization of your windows (I’m using KDE I love it and is the best for programming as I have much more control of each windows like pin above others windows and simple features like those that makes KDE perfectly for work, Plasma 6 even faster, less resources…).
What you said isn’t the truth, is just your own and personal perspective. Other people perspectives: https://duncanlock.net/blog/2022/04/06/using-windows-after-15-years-on-linux/
If you’re a real programmer you wouldn’t worry about snapping windows to a grid because you’d just have a single terminal open and running tmux.
/s kinda
Haha, that’s funny but as a real programmer working for a shitty company that forces me to work on a shitty Apple I can tell you I can’t just use tmux, I need web browser/s (Jira, Git site for collaborations with team, for reading documentation), MS teams, Keepass or similar, etc… But if they allowed me, I might try to just use Emacs as an OS itself, then I wouldn’t worry about Apple or Windows.
What you said isn’t the truth, is just your own and personal perspective
What I said is the perspective of any other professional out there (with lots of examples) besides web developers. By the same logic what you said isn’t also true - it is just your own perspective as a developer.
Developers are just a percentage of potential Linux users, and some of them can’t even use it because of the tools they require. Regular people have other needs and don’t want to spend a week fixing something when they can get it out of the box somewhere else.
Eg. for a manager or some other office worker the slight incompatibly between MS Office and Libre Office isn’t tolerable because it has a negative impact on their productivity in the same way that KDE feature xyz delivers a better experience for programming. See? Just because it isn’t your perspective doesn’t mean it isn’t true.
MS not being able to run on Linux is a problem with Microsoft, not Linux. Still you can do it paying to crossover, the owners of Wine, they do and offer it, just report them every time Microsoft tries to break the compatibility.
See? Just because it isn’t your perspective doesn’t mean it isn’t true.
That’s just what I tell you and what you are replying to. I know posts of people saying they prefer Linux, and they aren’t into tech or programming, just are used to it already. You got used to Windows because it’s the first OS you get when you buy a new laptop.
Before me using Linux 100%, sometimes I thought some issues I had on Linux was because of Linux, when I switched back to Windows, I realized I don’t only have the same issues but even more to fit the DE or tools, the system is heavier in many aspects. The system update both on Windows and Apple sucks… there are many reasons I dislike Windows and Apple. Now I like the Fedora stability and Arch Linux repo builds and deps. I can play the games I truly like and even much more than what I really want to play, so I see Windows or Mac a stupid option I can really not understand why people use them, and yes, this is 100% my personal own perspective.
Also, iptables rocks.
MS not being able to run on Linux is a problem with Microsoft, not Linux
No, it isn’t a problem of MS nor of Linux. It a problem for people who’ve to be productive on those solutions and that’s why Linux isn’t a good fit for them.
I know posts of people saying they prefer Linux, and they aren’t into tech or programming, just are used to it already
Yes, normally people that use that machine for light web surfing on the weekends and dealing with a few personal things that require a document and a bullet list once every year.
You can’t expect to waltz in some office and have people tolerate broken documents of some format and/or the subsequent productivity losses - it just takes you making a few slides for your boss while using LibreOffice and once he opens the document you’ve misaligned items, game over. :)
Also, iptables rocks.
No, it doesn’t. nftables is the only sane and sensible thing that was built considering modern networking and scalability concerns not hacked and dragged along for decades.
You can’t expect to waltz in some office and have people tolerate broken documents of some format and/or the subsequent productivity losses - it just takes you making a few slides for your boss while using LibreOffice and once he opens the document you’ve misaligned items, game over. :)
You mean the Open Source formats that literally every thing else can render just fine and are absolutely trivial to implement but for some reason isn’t properly implemented into Microsoft Office.
We get it, indie dev Microsoft can’t spare the manpower to implement it the correct way.Yes, I mean those formats.
It doesn’t really matter if the specs says one thing and the “indie MS dev” does another. Since MS Office was the first and most common and adopted solution it kinda sets what is the standard. When LibreOffice refuses to copy the way Word displays a simple bullet list because Word isn’t following the spec then the problem isn’t with Word, the problem is in Writer.
This is like those bugs that people rely on. Even if you can argue there’s a few lines of code that aren’t doing what was technically correct as soon as you’ve people depending on that “wrong” behavior for some task it suddenly became a feature and the right way to do things.
When Google docs and everything else can handle the formats properly then it’s clearly a MS office issue.
Since MS Office was the first and most common and adopted solution it kinda sets what is the standard.
“Since my spouse was famous first they’re allowed to beat me, there not normally like this I swear, really they’re a nice guy, it’s my fault anyway, I deserve it”
No, it isn’t a problem of MS nor of Linux. It a problem for people who’ve to be productive on those solutions and that’s why Linux isn’t a good fit for them.
You can’t expect to waltz in some office and have people tolerate broken documents of some format and/or the subsequent productivity losses - it just takes you making a few slides for your boss while using LibreOffice and once he opens the document you’ve misaligned items, game over. :)
Lol, it’s related, MS breaks the compatibility with Linux on purpose, so why would Linux community care if Microsoft decides to not be able to run on a Linux? Because it’s clearly on purpose, just do your own research, as I did. Linux community can try to adapt to Microsoft document styles, but if you want to work with Microsoft Office tools, don’t expect having support to work with them on Linux… the reason is obvious, that would kill Microsoft, the same they do with the video game monopoly, trying to buy all the companies to keep the monopoly.
No, it doesn’t. nftables is the only sane and sensible thing that was built considering modern networking and scalability concerns not hacked and dragged along for decades.
Whatever, Linux firewall rocks.
emulation (wine)
To explain you @TCB13@lemmy.world why you are being ridiculed here, the WINE itself stands for “Wine Is Not an Emulator”.
It’s a compatibility layer, but for all things and purposes a non-technical person might as well think about it as an emulator - it makes stuff run where it normally wouldn’t.
Go ahead, enjoy your two minutes of fame.
Wine provides an API that is compatible with the ones found on Windows. Loosely speaking that’s an emulator, not the kind of emulation you’re thinking about but it is still trying to re-create an environment where applications written for Windows can run.
Windows licenses are cheap
Bullshit, keys are not the same as licenses. A license costs ~150 Euros.
He also is not calculating the value of his privacy…
What does that mean for Windows though?
When you don’t have to spend weeks tweaking a system to have something that works… that’s considered cheap. Money doesn’t exist by itself, if you need a machine to work today, Windows is cheap. Even if you make 20€/hour in a day of work your Windows license will be payed of… the other alternative is spending weeks not being able to work because you’ve to configure things :)
Just crack it https://github.com/massgravel/Microsoft-Activation-Scripts don’t pay any more euros to Microsoft please…
Obviously :P
I … bought an official digital Windows license back then before I even thought about Desktop Linux. Now I feel dirty …
Just to piss Microsoft off, I used the activation script for my GPU passthrough Tiny11 VM instead of simply signing into my account. ;)
Leaving out your copypasta list, did Debian really got better for newbie desktop users? I’ve read it not long time ago somewhere that it got better for desktop use, is that true? What’s your rig, configs and use cases?
did Debian really got better for newbie desktop users?
I mean, I just want shit to work and I don’t have any complaints, unlike I had with other distros. HP EliteBook 840 G5 (i7 model) running since Debian 11, then upgraded to 12. Debian 12 fresh install on a HP ProDesk 600 G4 Mini as well everything working right after installation (including the special keyboard keys). My main desktop i7-6800K / Asus X99-M WS/SE also had it for a while and it worked fine but due to work and small compatibility annoyances I moved to Windows. At some point I was running it on an old MacBook, the setup was harder and I had to fix a couple of thing but it worked better than macOS - at least it had a recent browser :P
The rest of the machines where I run Debian are Supermicro servers (or AMD boxes running headless) so they aren’t useful for this conversation.
Use case for those machines is web, email, VSCode for embedded development, SSH into other machines, networking related jobs and typing stuff sometimes.
I see people from time to time complaining about Debian, but frankly I don’t get it. Unlike Arch it has an installer, even a GUI, comes with sensible defaults. Installation can be done by pressing next at every step (without changing anything) and as long as you aren’t running on AliExpress hardware or some shady brand from 10 years ago things usually work fine.
Is that a threat? Do whatever you want.
If you seek help, remove 95% of your post.
All distros work somehow, otherwise people wouldn’t use them.
I wasn’t being threatened. I’m giving you perspective from a newcomer who is having issues with trying out Linux. I’m happy you are not bothered by your OS. Now you know that someone else out there is not having the same experience as you.
I don’t know how to word this in a nice way but OP didn’t write anything that would make me assume they have bad intent.
People try things and can be frustrated when it doesn’t work for them. It can be specially frustrating in an ecochamber like this.
Why do you have to take critiques on Linux as a threat? Will Linux problems go away if they remove “95%” of their post?
If you talk shit about someone’s garden, don’t be surprised if they tell you to fuck off when you ask for gardening advice
Did I though? I praised it for how far it has come from 10 years ago. Then I highlighted my frustration with quirks and bugs I was experiencing.
-
Did the dude tell you to fuck off?
-
Literally the beginning of your post:
Mint is pretty good, but the UX design was terrible
- If you need help, ask for it. There’s no need for a clickbait title, and a review from someone who doesn’t know how to use the product…
Lol, it’s kinda sad how personally you’re taking OP’s opinion about Mint’s UX. Time to touch some grass.
I don’t care about mint (MX is better), it’s just a really good example of how not to start your post. Also, both you and the op had the same rationalisation…
-
A post like this doesn’t do anything towards fixing those bugs. I bet a soda you didn’t file a single bug report.
That’s the minimum first step if you want to contribute to the improvement of those issues.
Imagine if OP posted “new to Linux, please help me solve these issues” and just listed what they need help with. They’d get actual help instead.
OP didn’t talk shit though, they explained their experience in a pretty fair and neutral way. Don’t take criticisms against Linux so personally.
they explained their experience in a pretty fair and neutral way
Meanwhile OP:
Mint is pretty good, but the UX design was terrible
I hopped between distros for a long time. Before writing Linux off I suggest giving MX-Linux a shot. I’ve been loving it. It’s super solid. My only issue with it is that I can’t seem to get the right power settings set for closing my laptop but it’s probably something I’m doing wrong.
I really enjoy PopOs but Microsoft office is one of the things that is always been a bit difficult on Linux there are alternatives like only office and Libre office but if those won’t do you might need Windows.
Perhaps after the web apps get their Rust rewrite they’ll be a suitable replacement.
I just found out that PopOS is getting abandoned. So I’ll just wait for Rust?
It’s not getting abandoned, it’s just having some major components redone.
Did you really judge the current state of linux by using a 2 year old distro?
I literally typed in a search “Easiest linux distro for a windows user” and downloaded the top results which was Mint and PopOS. What do you suggest? I’m open for suggestions.
Google is filled with blogspam nowadays. You should try any distro that has been released recently or rolling. I would recommend OpenSuse Tumbleweed, it’s quite easy to use. Try KDE while you’re at it.
Why shouldn’t he? It’s a popular distro and one of the easier ones to get into especially with a NVIDIA card.
Because Pop_OS! Devs explicitly said they’re putting it on pause to focus on developing their new rust based cosmic DE. 🤦♀️
And that means PopOS shouldn’t be used anymore?
No. It means take it’s current DE state with a gran of salt because it’s about to be completely replaced in a few weeks.
Ok so if I run into issues on Fedora 39 then I should take it with a grain of salt because Fedora is more cutting edge? What distro do you suggest then?
False equivalence. Fedora isn’t about to replace the entire DE with a completely new thing that’s been in development for the past 3 years. The problem isn’t that their critiquing, it’s what they’re critiquing that’s the problem. There’s no point critiquing a fork of Gnome that hasn’t had any development for the past two years and is going to be replaced with an entirely new & made from scratch DE in a few weeks from now. The Gnome fork isn’t anywhere near the current state of actual Gnome that’d you find on Fedora. If you want to criticize Linux Mint cinnamon DE, go for it. If you want to criticize Gnome, go for it. But criticizing Pop_OS!'s Gnome based cosmic DE is udderly pointless and irrelevant to the actual state of Linux DE’s has a whole.
I get what you’re saying but I don’t agree that it matters. PopOS is quite popular and recommended distro and it’s fair to critique it if you run into issues. For average user it does not matter that they are working on Cosmic and that they are not updating the current version much if at all. They picked it because it’s popular or was recommended.
If someone will have bad bug fiesta experience on KDE Plasma 6 it’s easy to shrug it away as “it’s new, they still need to iron out issues” the same way as “that’s 2y old, what did you expect?”.
While this is true, several core elements of pop os 22.04 continue to receive updates. The kernel, pipewire, Firefox, etc. all continue to receive updates to modernish versions. It is not an ignored distro by any means
The Pop_OS! Devs do not develop the Kernel, pipewire, Firefox, etc. so no shit they’d still receive updates.
No they but they still need to test the kernel and pipewire with the packages they ship to ensure that there are no bugs or dependency issues.
No/few distro maintainers develop packages. By your logic, maintaining a distro should be trivial.
Actually, I’ve made my own distro before. It’s not hard, just extremely time consuming.
maintaining a distro should be trivial.
It is, actually. You use a CI system to do the vast majority of the work then do the most basic form of testing. It’s nothing like developing and maintaining actual source code.
The Gnome-based DE was something they actually developed and wrote lines of code for, they do no such thing for the Kernel. They just compile it and package it into a deb using a CI system, test it and vender it out to the user. They already have all the infrastructure required up and running.
So I am not a software developer. My point was born out of the fact that people talk about maintainers(package and otherwise) getting burnt out.
Cosmic is not gnome based
I think you’ve already received plenty of feedback here, for better or worse, so I’ll just add that you’re going find quirks in any operating system if you use it long enough; Windows is no exception.
Windows and macOS also introduce privacy and security complexities due to their proprietary nature. If that doesn’t bother you more than the annoyances you’ve encountered under Linux, do whatever works for you.
The main reason I was even attempting Linux was my concern for privacy.
Then you are on the right way. Just don’t try to replicate your Windows workflow, find or create yourself a new one. It will take time but hopefully you’ll get used to it. However there are distros somewhat look like Windows. Linux Mint is a good start point.
If I’m not wrong, PopOS uses x11 which needs touchegg for touchpad gestures. Try some wayland first distro like Fedora (which uses Gnome like Pop but a newer version of it). Maybe will fix the suspend issue too.
About the issue with flatpaks, maybe it was because the first download needs to pull the runtime (a big bundle with all the dependencies needed).Too bad a bunch of people here just rant without even trying to help you.
So Arch? I see so many negative comments for Arch that I fear using it.
I’ll give it a try.
Thank you.
Arch for a newcomer? Are you a masochist?
Go for EndeavourOS if you want to use Arch with a lot of legwork done.
Arch is for advanced users that they know what they’re doing in order to shape as much as they want their installation.
I would recommend some beginner friendly distro but still with wayland preconfigured.
And avoid the lesser-known, niche and old distros because of support and bugs. I’ve suggested Fedora because is what I use and I find it good enough for a newbie, but maybe even Debian could be good (I’m not sure if Debian has wayland as default).Don’t do it. If you’re having issues figuring out stuff by yourself don’t install Arch Linux. If you are already frustrated using an OS like Pop it will be much worse on Arch.
I’d really recommend something like Fedora before trying to touch Arch. Arch is pretty much only one step removed from Gentoo, the difference being you don’t compile everything from source, but installing it is still a process of building the entire OS from the ground up. There is no GUI installer, you’re going to be in a terminal window punching in dozens of commands while the installation guide is up on your phone or a nearby computer. There is no real standard pathway to “a setup that works fine for most people”. The wiki is very noncommittal in many areas to the point of inflicting decision paralysis and wasting a lot of your time if you try to approach it as a Linux newbie, as well as throwing so many links at you that it can be hard to tell which links mean “you need to click this and follow the instructions” or “here’s background information on this thing we just told you to do that you only need to know if you’re curious”.
When I tried to install Arch, following the directions as precisely as I could understand them, I couldn’t get networking to function when booted into the OS, it only worked when I was running the USB installation environment. The default pacstrap you’re given doesn’t include the same networking packages as the installation environment, so any newbie just trying to follow the guide is expected to chase down nests of links and hyper-detailed wiki pages to figure out which networking packages they need, try to get them installed, figure out how they’re supposed to be configured, and in my case, still fail to connect to the internet. Also not included by default are the packages that download manuals for all the commands you’ll be learning to use, or a text editor which you need to edit config files, and editing config files is the only way to configure most of the system when you’re in a terminal. I hit so many stumbling blocks and started over so many times it felt like a hazing. Gave up after a full day of trying to figure out the networking problem and having no new ideas the next day.
Fedora (KDE Plasma/Wayland) worked really well out of the box with a proper GUI installer, I just had to do little configuration stuff like adding additional flatpak sources or learning how the console package manager works (
dnf), and also to ignore any instruction that ever tells you to rundnf autoremove. Simple stuff like installing a web browser and basic apps was about as quick to set up as on Windows. The most trouble I actually had was with Discord - it would be freshly installed, briefly work, then on the next launch say that an update is available and demand I manually update it, with options to download an Ubuntu/Debian installer or a tar.gz (aka “figure it out yourself”) which never seemed to take. I ended up looking for alternatives that weren’t just using it in my regular web browser and discovering WebCord, which I’ve been very pleased with from a privacy perspective.I agree with this, for anyone at even a beginner level fredora is pretty great! I’ve used it many times for hosting servers, it’s pretty reliable and isn’t going away any time soon
People get offended really easily, it is really weird.
He has a Nvidia card, I had a really bad UX with my rtx 4080 with Wayland a few weeks ago. There’s a protocol that just got merged supporting explicitly sync last week that may get Nvidia better with Wayland in the upcoming months though.
Doesn’t it helps having it as a headless dedicated? Can’t be vulkan and xwindows used for games on the headless dedicated nvidia and running the WM on the integrated?
You’ve moved over to another operating system and you’re expecting it to work like your previous one. That’s stupid.
Windows, Mac, BSD, VMS, Unix etc. all work their own way. Expecting them to work how you want them to is arrogant.
Before you moved you might have read up on the differences and how things work. That would be sensible.
Nobody here has any time for this nonsense. Which is why you are being down voted.
Your arguments aren’t really addressing the points that OP made, though. They aren’t saying they expected everything to work just like Windows, they are saying they expected everything to just work. Any system that requires tinkering for basic stable functionality should be considered experimental and not ready for production.
If you disagree you are falling prey to dogmatic OS fundamentalism. Acknowledging insufficiencies helps improve Linux, while rejecting such criticism prolongs the amount of time the majority of people write it off as unusable as a desktop operating system.
Your comment, like the OP’s post fails to recognise the arrogance of jumping from one OS to another and expecting to put no work in and that it will work just as he expects.
dogmatic OS fundamentalism
I recognise OS’s are not the same as it’s the basis for my comment. Stop your bullshit.
When you move to an OS, have the common sense to not expect it to work the same way as the one you came from.
My disagreement doesn’t meaning I’m falling prey to anything. I am free to disagree with anybody I like for any reason I deem important enough for me. Just as you are. It’s called having a different opinion. Look it up.
The common sense is to expect you can wake up your device from sleep without having to troubleshoot why it is not waking up suddenly for no apparent reason. I don’t feel like OP is complaining about how stuff works or does not work differently on PopOS rather than his frustration at the system suddenly not waking up which was the breaking point as he also lost his work done in the web browser.
In my opinion, it’s common sense to research an operating system, how it works and what’s expected, before you move to it. And to also research if there are any issues with your hardware on your new operating system you chose.
The OP complained about many things. You singled out one. Most of them would have been mitigated had they researched what I mentioned above.
Its my opinion, and I stand by what I said before.
Yes, I only listed the issue that broke the camels back. Yes, you should look into what you’re getting into but who in their right mind is going to search for any obscure issues they may run into before they actually run into them? That’s just unreasonable and you woudn’t even think of them even if you tried.
Yes, you should look into what you’re getting into
Then we agree.
Based move
deleted by creator
I care about privacy and have a spare computer willing to see if it can completely switch over. I don’t think it’s a compromise having my computer freeze each time it needs to sleep. I think that is more of a bug.
deleted by creator
Yeah, laptops with dedi nvidia cards were always pain with Linux, at least my experience was always terrible (there is no feature parity to windows, especially energy saving stuff), though for me I am in the position where I would rather have Linux with my configs (which translates into: I’ve spent a lot of time on tweaking and fixing stuff over the time) then windows, so a nvidia gpu in a laptop is no-go in the first place.
Linux requires time investment, not everyone is comfortable to dig in. The fragmented nature of Linux (multiple Desktop Environments, graphical libraries, heck even low-level stuff: va-api/vdpau, …) lends itself into it so there is no sugar-coating it.
If you can’t or don’t want to fix it then win is the way but I would hope one day you will give Linux another chance - the community is there, so there is a high chance it will be better the next year and the one after that, and so on.
My nvidia card is probably my main issue. I will likely try again in a few years and maybe next time purchase a Linux box from the manufacture to get some support.
It is a tool, use it when it fits. Use both where they fit.
This is not an airport Sir, no need to announce departures.
No, this isn’t an airport because this is a product, not a service. A product wants to claim market share from newcomers like me. Expect people like you make comments like this that makes people like me feel unwelcomed and regret the decision to even try the OS.
You and your piece of shit attitude is the problem. There’s a difference between asking for advice with something you couldn’t figure out (it’s OK and It happens to all of us), feeling bummed or overwhelmed. Expressing some frustration healthily.
And walking into a place, complaining that nothing works, insulting their values, proclaiming that you’re leaving because you’re dissatisfied, then slamming the door shut.
Who tf are you? We don’t know you. You’re not part of our community. This is the first time we’re seeing you, and you’re acting like a little know it all shithead ranting about crap we are already aware of, we already have a solution for, or is not relevant to us because it’s against our principles. And you wonder why nobody here likes you?
Linux is not a product, no matter how much we like to discuss it, at the end of the day market share is irrelevant for FLOSS. We seek no profit, we chase no investor, we please no shareholder. It’s fitting you are feeling unwelcome, you are unwelcome. You don’t share the same values as our community.
Good riddance.
If it’s ok to announce you’re moving to Linux (and it is), then it’s ok to announce you’re moving away.
That’s arrivals
Sir, this is a Wendy’s
No, This Is Patrick!
