Surprised it’s taken this long for people to grasp it.
We control the world’s reserve currency, and hold the ability to fry any country’s economy via economic sanctions whenever we want. We have the largest military in the world and that military is set up for the purpose of invasion. Yeah, China has a massive navy, but their ships are tiny, most likely for the purpose of defending their oceans and eventually taking Taiwan. We on the other hand have more carrier ships than anyone else, all for the purpose of being able to flex our might on anyone in the world.
People used to say that we attempted to police the world. I don’t hear it nearly as much anymore, but it’s accurate. We throw our weight around. We’re the world’s bully.
Yes, and to large extent NATO countries love to join in on the bullying. Britain and Australia jumped right in with the Iraq invasion for example.
imperialism is shitty.
But America really is the greatest nation in the world. On account of the fact that 100% of working class people here in the US hate what their government is doing.
would you please clarify what you mean: what is the government doing that 100% of working class people in the US hate?
You don’t follow the news much, do you?
To the contrary: there are so many potential stances if you take “100%” as a ballpark. But I think we’ve fallen into a common pitfall of non-verbal communication: I wasn’t trying to argue with you. I was simply asking for clarification out of curiosity.
If it’s any consolation, I should point out that I do agree with you in thinking that America is great. We have our share of problems, some dire and heartbreaking. However it is my conviction that, given enough time, during which we will inevitably bear witness to many more injustices, they will be solved, if never to a satisfactory degree, that being the nature of progress.
I think the only war we tried to show our military might “greatness” was the Gulf War. It did establish America as a coalition force to the world.
I think the meme is accurate to people who once supported the war in Iraq. I don’t think it reflects people that opposed it or, people who have since changed their views on it.
And WW2.
Basically every war we did during the Cold War was about “sharing” the greatness of capitalism over communism, too. We’re still pretending our embargo against Cuba is just for the same dumb reason.
Anybody know where I can get the Mandarin dub of the original cartoon?
Fox news calling the US an empire is not new. How old do you all think the moniker “Empire State” is? It’s wild how it’s in our language but we just don’t think about it.
And most of this critique of empire is completely lost in Legend of Korra. A show that does nothing to reconcile the past with the present. Instead it preaches literal horseshoe theory as the over arching message of the show.
"what did Amon want? Equality for all. Unalaq? He brought back the spirits. And Zaheer believed in freedom. […] The problem was, those guys were totally out of balance and they took their ideologies too far. " - Toph, EP 43, “The Calling”
Each of these villains, including the final one, Kuvira, represent a kind of ideological boogie man.
- Amon is the minority rights Boogie Man, he espoused the ideals of equality. One could interpret him as the white genocide boogie man but there is little evidence of any kind of true class division between bender’s and non-benders. A shallow caricature at best.
- Unalaq was the religion or spirituality boogie man, or could be interpreted as the “return to tradition” boogie man.
- Zaheer is the anarchist boogie man.
- Kuvira is the totalitarian dictator aka Communist boogie man.
At no point in the show does Korra have to struggle against any of these ideas and combat them in any ideological way. They are all metaphorical punching bags. Each of them “to extreme” to allow to exist. Each contrasted against each other as though they they were equals.
Republic City stands at the center of the show as the only constant and good political organization. A representative democracy. Tied explicitly to Aang to drive the point home, if you had any doubt’s about its goodness.
In the end, the heir to the Earth Kingdom Monarchy gives up his throne to install a representative democracy in the Earth Kingdom. The result of this shallow attempt at writing leaves the shows saying almost nothing at all. Its as it was written to tell 13 year olds that their anarchist or communist curiosities are misguided and simply a phase.
The whole overarching theme of the two series is totally different.
ATLA is about restoring peace from an objectively big-bad. It’s a story of perseverance and self-improvement. And it’s about recognizing and correcting mistakes…Aang, in saving the world after he abandoned it; and Zuko’s entire story arc.
Contrast that with Korra (which Nick studios really messed up). There was not supposed to be more than one season, initially. And they ruined the last season (or two, I think) by rushing it out as an online exclusive.
If you have to pick a theme for Korra, though, it’s about balance and nuance. None of the big bads are objectively totally bad. They all have redeeming factors and all of them, you could say, are somewhat right. But, as you said, they go too far.
Even towards the end as Korra has the mercury poisoning and PTSD and depression, it’s about inner balance and harmony. Honestly, mental health is a huge topic for a kids show to try to tackle, and they did it wonderfully.
But, as you said, they go too far.
They don’t “go too far”, they do things outside of their intended ideological character because the liberal showrunners need to make them unsympathetic again.
Yes this is exactly my point. Zaheer is a vague shadow that represents Anarchist ideology. He says he wants to bring “Chaos” to the world because somehow that is a preferable world state to order. Except Anarchism isn’t about “chaos” or “lawlessness” its about building horizontal organizations instead of vertical ones. Its about dismantling unjust hierarchies and being vigilant in your critical view of hierarchies. I’m not even an anarchist and I understand that much. Even if I’m talking out the side of my mouth, I’m being more generous then the show.
At no point is Zaheer interested in sticking around to educate the Earth Kingdom citizens in how to reorganized their society in a more ethical and equitable way. He just wants to do wacky disruptive assassination while quoting vaguely Zen Buddhist philosophy about detachment from worldly possessions.
Kuvira is attempting to restore “order” as a result of Zaheer’s Chaos, and they paint her as an “authoritarian” as if her actions are some how philosophically different then Zaheer’s, who enforced his own authority over the Earth Kingdom by killing the Queen. She has no “ideology”. She’s not trying to build an Earth Kingdom ruled by the proletariat. She’s not trying to build a Fascist Earth Kingdom bent on exploiting its citizens for capital gains. None of that is explicitly stated. They simply drag out every anticommunist trope and have her do them all.
- reeducation camps
- forced labor camps
- forced starvation
- one party rule as a smoke screen for her singular authority (part of the deal with Yi was the governor would stay in place under Kuvira’s “supervision”)
Again, it’s a shallow exploration of these “ideologies” or worldviews, it’s clear the writers had no intention of understanding them or struggling against them.
But also what is to say about the first season and equality? That equality can “go to far” or that behind every equality leader there is an evil intention? Are we to then look at the equal rights movement and ponder in what ways it went “to far”? Should we look at people like Malcolm X and say they were the Aamon in this situation? We should be skeptical of equality movements? At no point do they address the concerns of the non benders who clearly believed they were second class citizens. Was there a kernel of truth there or did the inequality only exist in their brain washed minds? Which is something people say to minorities today, that there is no inequality it’s just your bad mindset…
I disagree. Most Americans know we are the fire nation/empire from Star Wars.
Well at least most people I know.
Most people you know seem a lot more aware than the average American in my experience
You forgot the important part
“And they’re proud of it”
It’s crazy how military families are so into being in the military, out how proud they are of being Marines, etc. They’re literally doing the governments dirty work.
Very true.
Bootlickers gonna bootlick
The question is: why would they be proud of being marines?
I mean, marines are the cannon fodder in every alien invasion movie, so, with that knowledge, that military branch is composed of useless moving targets.
Propaganda. Lots and lots and lots of propaganda.
Propaganda about being the first line to get sacrificed in every alien invasion? Lol
I don’t know if you’ve lived in rural America, but I have, and the fast track to quasi-celebrity status out there is to join the Marines or get KIAd. Americans have been heavily propagandized about making the great and noble sacrifice to “defend the country”.
I live in south americA
Yeah, the US, particularly rural US, has been propagandized an absolutely ridiculous amount. Being seen to sacrifice or die for the empire is seen as a glorious thing both in and for your community.
Self sacrifice for family/church/country is a big part of their hero’s journey narrative.
So…sure we are the baddies, but it’s OK because America?
No, not okay. The monkey puppet reaction.
We are not shocked to learn we are the bad guys. I never said it’s okay, I just disagree with the reaction meme to indicate we didn’t know it.
Not sure where you pulled “it’s okay because America” from my statement but no need to jump to conclusions and put words in peoples mouth.
He pulled it from nowhere because tankies are incapable of nuance, especially if you hold an even mildly dissenting opinion. You’re either with them or against them, there is no in-between. It’s ironic how much they share in common with actual fascists.
Don’t think that’s what OP meant.
OP wants a fairy tail.
40K is just worst case Grimms.
More like “we are the baddies, but the incredibly wealthy own the country and they want war, and none of us have to balls to start lopping off heads”
incredibly wealthy own the country
I wish people just said “the capitalist class”…
Makes it more obvious what the issue is and What Is To Be Done (working class revolution).
Enlightened 40Kism, we know we are the bad guys, cause there are no good guys, just worse villians.
Tau?
Space Dawi
Most of the independent human systems doing just fine without the Imperium tyvm
Eldar
Some Necrons, maaaaybe. It’s hard to tell with them sometimes.
Hrud mostly seem to just want to be left alone.
A lot of aliens just chilling
Fun Fact: the Imperium doesn’t actually span most of the galaxy. Nor do they really “control” the area around their systems.
Because of how FTL works in 40k, some areas just aren’t accessible to them. There’s a full on insectoid empire called the Q’orl near Terra that they didn’t have access to or know about until the Warp currents shifted.
And apparently their technology is even enough to be a potential threat… And the Imperium learned this when they immediately tried to kill them, obviously
Ah yes you can join our ‘Greater Good’ if you volunteer to be our slaves and castrate yourself. Also if you change your mind and try to leave we’ll kill you.
What is 40Kism?
In Warhammer 40K, the Imperium of Man are awful, but they’re the ‘good guys’ because they’re human, any every other species is even more awful and would wipe humanity out given the chance
Tau wouldn’t and doesn’t exterminate. On the other hand they may or may not brainwash their populace.
That is what new players/readers are told, sure.
Yes, that is the justification most Americans use; western chauvinism tells them that no matter how bad they are, the other places are worse. How many times on Lemmy do you see people say “America bad, but China or Russia or Iran would be worse (therefore we’re justified in facilitating massive bloodshed)?”
I’ve seen the former part of that sentiment on here, but I haven’t seen anyone use it as justification to go to war
It’s used to justify bombing Yemen, support the genocide in Palestine, escalating the proxy war against Russia, and starting one against China.
You can get a social democrat to acknowledge that every conflict America has supported since WWII has made make the world worse, and they’ll still insist that this time, it’s different.
And half of lemmy are worse than that.
…escalating the proxy war against Russia…
So, comrade, how much of Ukraine should surrender for about 6 years of “peace” with Russia?
The portions of Ukraine that Western Ukraine was shelling before the invasion.
The lines have hardly moved in a year, despite thousands more dead and millions more displaced. Every bomb we send is a bad day for someone, statistically mostly civilians. To send more bombs is to sacrifice more people, for the same geopolitical outcome.
I for one wouldn’t have used unrest as a chance to do a coup. But if I did, I wouldn’t have planned who to install in what positions over an unsecure line.
And so, Ukraine would have stayed a democracy that is more economically aligned with Russia, and Russia wouldn’t have invaded.
I for one, wouldn’t have spent 40 years trying to overthrow a proletarian democracy, eventually succeeding in sponsoring a coup.
So Ukraine and Russia wouldn’t be right wing nationalist nations and would instead be part of a progressive federation.
The path where America is not in control and making the decisions for the rest of the world doesn’t even enter the liberalist mind. The inability to imagine an alternative world order is heavily ingrained and maintained by fear of “the other.”
I thought the Empire in Star Wars was supposed to be Third Reich Germany. They literally both have “stormtroopers.”
Originally i would agree but i am referencing how things are today as that’s what the meme is referencing.
If you asked Americans today if they are the rebels or the empire the folks I know concede that we are the empire. We are the ones going into other peoples home towns with military occupation.
Fair. I was mostly thinking about it from the perspective of what the writers had intended at the time.
I think we’re more like the Alliance from Firefly.
Most people are just trying to go about their day-to-day, and the war and major imperialism was done a long time ago. Now there are a few in the government who keep doing evil shit, but for the most part it’s a big useless bureaucracy.
the war and major imperialism was done a long time ago.
This is literally a myth that papers over their current warmongering and imperialism
false, most amerikkkans will not have the self-awareness to feel bad about it
“Wow, the Fire Nation is just like the latest country the news told me to hate, good thing America’s around to Share Our Greatness™️with them!”
greatness and freedom™
Uneducated fuckwits thinking the u.s invented war.
“Oh my god you shot me, I’m going to die, but I don’t blame you because you didn’t invent the gun”
I like how some people are claiming americans are aware of this lol
If most americans were sufficiently aware and organizing against it accordingly the imperialist gov would already have been toppled.
I’m American and am aware of this. Explain that!
The One True AmericanTM
The alternative:
The representative of no one AmericanTM
Power. Your fantasy assumes the weight of mere knowing outweighs the power wielded against the citizenry. No revolution started with the whole citizenry waking up. You know why. If not, read more and be less disingenuous.
No revolution started with the whole citizenry waking up
Obviously not everyone lmao.
What every revolution has had is people informing others about what the issue is (often by pamphlets, news, etc), what needs to be done, and organizing. The vast majority of successful revolutions are only those that had organized revolutionaries.
I like how some people are claiming americans are aware of this lol
What every revolution has had is people informing others about what the issue is
If most americans were sufficiently aware and organizing against it accordingly
The vast majority of successful revolutions are only those that had organized revolutionaries.
OK. I see your messaging is at odds with itself and you understand the assignment.
You got top spot on this here memetic sharing of ideas. Which message for the Americans at home who by virtue of reading you on Lemmy are closer to you than not?
Some zoomers and some millennials know it. Boomers don’t know or actually think it’s a good thing.
Either way your take is extremely juvenile and simplistic. There’s a lot more at play with revolutions than people knowing their country did something bad. It takes a lot more than that to get people off their ass, with very few exceptions historically, and even those exceptions are usually rich people looking out for themselves.
People need to have their own livelihoods threatened before they do anything. And there are always power systems in place that deliberately make it hard for people to organize.
Big nation go ooga fuck around n find out; hamburgerland munition go boom
Most Americans are too dumb to realize the allegory in ATLA.
There are a lot of assholish nations that could easily take that place, but imo there are enough references to Dalai lama in the show to assume that the fire nation is china
The earth nation exists with a whole theme about being the great stagnant central state empire getting overshadowed by an upstart nation going through industrial revolution first doesn’t give you any hints? Not even the queues and qibao?
The Dalai Lama references are from the Air Nomads, not Fire Nation
Yes, that’s how the metaphor follows through. The fire Nation destroys the air nomads the way the Chinese destroyed Tibet.
That’s because the air nomads are basically Tibetan monks, also annexed by China in the 1950s
Imagine seeing a brutal depiction of genocidal imperialism in media and referring to it as ‘assholish’
Being “just a cartoon” I never thought of the dimension of it, but they literally wiped out an entire nation. Suddenly, comparing the fire nation to any current superpower seems wrong.
?? The US famously wiped out the native population within its borders. I’m not sure what history you were taught but genocide is a very common topic.
We’re pretty dense, two critically acclaimed series and a couple shitty, live-action projects isn’t gonna cut it.
The non-KFC surface of the earth testifies to the fact.
We don’t want to be the arbiter we just kinda got stuck with it cause no one else was left. If you could all not kill each other for 50 years we would really appreciate it.
Everyone keeps arming bombers and shooting boats. This is kinda a no-no for us. Could ya not. We really don’t want to get involved in regional shit.
Reminder that the empire from Star Wars is a stand-in for the US, while the rebels represent the Viet Cong.
US military playing ‘The Imperial March’ from Star Wars on a loudspeaker while heading to Gaza
