I mean, the US is a democratic republic, the whole point is that the most resonating choice for ruler becomes the ruler… that a section of the political sphere wouldn’t become the one represented by the ruler is nothing striking and nothing to be ashamed of. Equally there being “no true right” is a common shortener because nobody in office ever advocated (true) Fascism beyond what could be found trending in other political crowds at certain times in history.
I’m not so sure. The US sure is a democratic republic by 18th century standards. But you still retain that system that makes someone win the presidency who doesn’t have the absolute majority of votes. And some of the states don’t really count in the campaigns since it’s obvious if they’re blue or red.
I’ve watched too much George Carlin. I think the system with the two parties is more to give you the illusion of having a choice. Same with the theoretical availability of ‘left’ individuals.
And I mean we have enough examples of systems suppressing people. A theoretical possibility doesn’t help if there’s no real choice. And you can keep the masses uneducated and occupied with lots of work so they don’t have time to get to power. I think that’s some of the dynamics in the USA that keep the system as is. Also, Putin also was elected somewhat democratically. It’s just that he got rid of his opposition. And the USA is more or less doing a similar thing. Just that they provide the people with a second choice, some illusion of choice that gives the people something to keep busy arguing about. In practice they both are a slightly different hue of the same color.
Even if it’s a clunky system, what I meant is it’s still an evened out system, equally fluid for everyone even if some of that fluidity manifests more often for some than others. It should also be remembered the US is a nation where the leadership is not the whole of control. To those whose complaint here is that things seem preselected against their wishes (and against mine, I want to stress I’m not implying I disagree with them policy-wise), there is still at least some element of choice before things are narrowed down to the two choices. The US is not using a “loud/might makes right” approach at the moment, just a bumpy process, which sets it apart from Russia for example which is arguably de facto quasi-feudalist.
I don’t think it’s an evened out system. It’s that on paper. I think we can agree on that. But the proper question is: Is that paper worth anything, anymore?
As another reply said, when I say evened out, I mean in indication of the fact there’s a difference between having a voice (which everyone has the same amount of), everyone having differing levels of being able to have a voice, and being heard or unheard, as well as a difference between being dismissed on a fair/honest or relatively fair/honest basis (as in they’re overshadowed according to fair rules) and being dismissed unfairly as a result of certain people being prioritized by means that would rig the game. Certain things do surpass lobbyists, which I do acknowledge is a large force, but which, if it were the largest influence on politics, I’m sure would in turn surpass any meaning to any discussion on the two party system, another thing which I acknowledge might affect the gears (but not the outcome, if enough people of a certain opinion so willed, which is my point) of the government. There are many avenues around each blockage.
Yeah, what I mean is, sure there are some specific counterexamples in between. But if it weren’t for the pharma lobby, you’d spend $8.000 on healthcare instead of $14.000 per year. And you’d live 2-3 years longer on average. I think 99.9% of the population would gladly accept that. But it ruins some of the business model of the 0.1% who get to make the decisions. It’ll never happen in the USA because it’s just on the paper that the people decide. And some of them aren’t even educated enough to do so. Same thing with school shootings and other things people regularly complain about.
It isn’t evened out for everyone. That’s like saying “now taxes are a flat 100k each year and it’s correct because it sucks for everyone”. When a milionaire (a party with a following) wouldn’t care, someone who is starting out (and could for instance gain 5% of the vote in this election) would get dumpstered and prevented from gaining more votes next election, since they’d be “on the board” and people would see them
When I say evened out, I mean in indication of the fact there’s a difference between having a voice (which everyone has the same amount of), everyone having differing levels of being able to have a voice, and being heard or unheard, as well as a difference between being dismissed on a fair/honest or relatively fair/honest basis (as in they’re overshadowed according to fair rules) and being dismissed unfairly as a result of certain people being prioritized by means that would rig the game. “Wealth is a prerequisite to power” isn’t the whole story and misrepresents the complexity of the process which in turn would allow more of a chance for everyone than that. Some past members of the government (of all roles, senator, governor, etc.) have been incredibly poor and largely disconnected from any wealth structure.
You wrote all that to say “politicians bad” and haven’t related to anything said above. The fact of the matter is - US isn’t a democracy. A choice between two parties with “no chance of anyone else winning” isn’t a democracy. Especially since both sides are basically the same.
How so, as in, well, all of it. You said what I said unrelatably translates to “politicians bad” while saying the US isn’t a democracy and that the two party system, which you say is the same on both sides and keeps losing peoples from winning, stunts absolutely every option. Votes keep losing peoples from winning. There was a time when the Republicans were the liberal ones and the Democrats were the conservative ones; that switcheroo doesn’t happen in a fixed game, neither do many of the things that seem to be about to happen.
If we’re to say the US isn’t, to at least some workable extent, a democracy, what would that even make Europe, who haven’t even fully stepped outside monarchist systemic principles? Depending on the country, you will find a large swath of nations in Europe (infamously Spain is like this) don’t have a glamorous working culture. Note that there is also the “customer aspect” of culture, i.e. if workers get the short end of the stick, consumers may get the long end, or vice versa.
To an extent. They might artificially thrust some people into the game, and the system is clunky, but as far as votes go when votes are offered, they are listened to. If the person in charge was a cheat, it would technically prove my point even more, because it would imply it’s not a true game of representation and that those of us who may be considered adherents to “left” streams of thought are on more street corners than the “they’re a demographic minority” view might suggest.
The only options people have to vote on are what are offered to them. The problem is, that in the US, you need money to become an option. That money comes mainly from corporations. Corporations won’t back a left wing party or politician.
I can name several examples to the contrary. Google is the most successful business in the entire nation, and they’ve been 100% consecutively in favor of “left” choices, often even promoting logo imagery of people whom a decade ago would be considered radicals. Don’t forget corporations in the modern era have sacrificed face to make completely meaningless changes to their marketing that they knew would put them in the path of the opposition to cancel culture (Aunt Jemima, Budweiser, etc.). The idea that corporations don’t have at least a little sense of “left” is false.
Google and other major corporations will try garner goodwill by supporting ideas that they want people to think of them as. Its the same with pride support and green washing.
If you as an American ( I assume) believe that Google is positioned to the left, l’d say you basically proove the point of there not being a left in the US
Even though Google knows it’s facing backlash for said views? It’s been a decade and they still flagship “left” streams of thought, posting videos about them on YouTube every two instances, typically with the comments/ratings disabled as a defense mechanism. What is that garnering? On at least three occasions they had a Google doodle of people who outright celebrated terrorism and 9/11 as steps in the right direction. Definitely not typical PR.
On at least three occasions they had a Google doodle of people who outright celebrated terrorism and 9/11 as steps in the right direction. Definitely not typical PR
Could you share exambles of these?
Also could you link to the youtube videos of them promoting left orientated thought and actions?
Nothing Google does or supports is actually a leftist anything. You’re making the same mistake all Americans make - buying into the propaganda that left/right is about social permissiveness. It’s actually an economic spectrum, and every meaningful company or organization is either far right, or extreme right.
I mean, the US is a democratic republic, the whole point is that the most resonating choice for ruler becomes the ruler… that a section of the political sphere wouldn’t become the one represented by the ruler is nothing striking and nothing to be ashamed of. Equally there being “no true right” is a common shortener because nobody in office ever advocated (true) Fascism beyond what could be found trending in other political crowds at certain times in history.
I’m not so sure. The US sure is a democratic republic by 18th century standards. But you still retain that system that makes someone win the presidency who doesn’t have the absolute majority of votes. And some of the states don’t really count in the campaigns since it’s obvious if they’re blue or red.
I’ve watched too much George Carlin. I think the system with the two parties is more to give you the illusion of having a choice. Same with the theoretical availability of ‘left’ individuals.
And I mean we have enough examples of systems suppressing people. A theoretical possibility doesn’t help if there’s no real choice. And you can keep the masses uneducated and occupied with lots of work so they don’t have time to get to power. I think that’s some of the dynamics in the USA that keep the system as is. Also, Putin also was elected somewhat democratically. It’s just that he got rid of his opposition. And the USA is more or less doing a similar thing. Just that they provide the people with a second choice, some illusion of choice that gives the people something to keep busy arguing about. In practice they both are a slightly different hue of the same color.
Even if it’s a clunky system, what I meant is it’s still an evened out system, equally fluid for everyone even if some of that fluidity manifests more often for some than others. It should also be remembered the US is a nation where the leadership is not the whole of control. To those whose complaint here is that things seem preselected against their wishes (and against mine, I want to stress I’m not implying I disagree with them policy-wise), there is still at least some element of choice before things are narrowed down to the two choices. The US is not using a “loud/might makes right” approach at the moment, just a bumpy process, which sets it apart from Russia for example which is arguably de facto quasi-feudalist.
I don’t think it’s an evened out system. It’s that on paper. I think we can agree on that. But the proper question is: Is that paper worth anything, anymore?
As another reply said, when I say evened out, I mean in indication of the fact there’s a difference between having a voice (which everyone has the same amount of), everyone having differing levels of being able to have a voice, and being heard or unheard, as well as a difference between being dismissed on a fair/honest or relatively fair/honest basis (as in they’re overshadowed according to fair rules) and being dismissed unfairly as a result of certain people being prioritized by means that would rig the game. Certain things do surpass lobbyists, which I do acknowledge is a large force, but which, if it were the largest influence on politics, I’m sure would in turn surpass any meaning to any discussion on the two party system, another thing which I acknowledge might affect the gears (but not the outcome, if enough people of a certain opinion so willed, which is my point) of the government. There are many avenues around each blockage.
Yeah, what I mean is, sure there are some specific counterexamples in between. But if it weren’t for the pharma lobby, you’d spend $8.000 on healthcare instead of $14.000 per year. And you’d live 2-3 years longer on average. I think 99.9% of the population would gladly accept that. But it ruins some of the business model of the 0.1% who get to make the decisions. It’ll never happen in the USA because it’s just on the paper that the people decide. And some of them aren’t even educated enough to do so. Same thing with school shootings and other things people regularly complain about.
It isn’t evened out for everyone. That’s like saying “now taxes are a flat 100k each year and it’s correct because it sucks for everyone”. When a milionaire (a party with a following) wouldn’t care, someone who is starting out (and could for instance gain 5% of the vote in this election) would get dumpstered and prevented from gaining more votes next election, since they’d be “on the board” and people would see them
When I say evened out, I mean in indication of the fact there’s a difference between having a voice (which everyone has the same amount of), everyone having differing levels of being able to have a voice, and being heard or unheard, as well as a difference between being dismissed on a fair/honest or relatively fair/honest basis (as in they’re overshadowed according to fair rules) and being dismissed unfairly as a result of certain people being prioritized by means that would rig the game. “Wealth is a prerequisite to power” isn’t the whole story and misrepresents the complexity of the process which in turn would allow more of a chance for everyone than that. Some past members of the government (of all roles, senator, governor, etc.) have been incredibly poor and largely disconnected from any wealth structure.
You wrote all that to say “politicians bad” and haven’t related to anything said above. The fact of the matter is - US isn’t a democracy. A choice between two parties with “no chance of anyone else winning” isn’t a democracy. Especially since both sides are basically the same.
How so?
What do you mean how so. Compare political parties in Europe, or the state of workers rights etc.
How so, as in, well, all of it. You said what I said unrelatably translates to “politicians bad” while saying the US isn’t a democracy and that the two party system, which you say is the same on both sides and keeps losing peoples from winning, stunts absolutely every option. Votes keep losing peoples from winning. There was a time when the Republicans were the liberal ones and the Democrats were the conservative ones; that switcheroo doesn’t happen in a fixed game, neither do many of the things that seem to be about to happen.
If we’re to say the US isn’t, to at least some workable extent, a democracy, what would that even make Europe, who haven’t even fully stepped outside monarchist systemic principles? Depending on the country, you will find a large swath of nations in Europe (infamously Spain is like this) don’t have a glamorous working culture. Note that there is also the “customer aspect” of culture, i.e. if workers get the short end of the stick, consumers may get the long end, or vice versa.
Do you actually believe that the political establishment/ruling class of this country has ever “resonated” with the majority of people?
At least in recent times, there is much more evidence to the contrary.
To an extent. They might artificially thrust some people into the game, and the system is clunky, but as far as votes go when votes are offered, they are listened to. If the person in charge was a cheat, it would technically prove my point even more, because it would imply it’s not a true game of representation and that those of us who may be considered adherents to “left” streams of thought are on more street corners than the “they’re a demographic minority” view might suggest.
The only options people have to vote on are what are offered to them. The problem is, that in the US, you need money to become an option. That money comes mainly from corporations. Corporations won’t back a left wing party or politician.
I can name several examples to the contrary. Google is the most successful business in the entire nation, and they’ve been 100% consecutively in favor of “left” choices, often even promoting logo imagery of people whom a decade ago would be considered radicals. Don’t forget corporations in the modern era have sacrificed face to make completely meaningless changes to their marketing that they knew would put them in the path of the opposition to cancel culture (Aunt Jemima, Budweiser, etc.). The idea that corporations don’t have at least a little sense of “left” is false.
Google and other major corporations will try garner goodwill by supporting ideas that they want people to think of them as. Its the same with pride support and green washing.
If you as an American ( I assume) believe that Google is positioned to the left, l’d say you basically proove the point of there not being a left in the US
Even though Google knows it’s facing backlash for said views? It’s been a decade and they still flagship “left” streams of thought, posting videos about them on YouTube every two instances, typically with the comments/ratings disabled as a defense mechanism. What is that garnering? On at least three occasions they had a Google doodle of people who outright celebrated terrorism and 9/11 as steps in the right direction. Definitely not typical PR.
Could you share exambles of these? Also could you link to the youtube videos of them promoting left orientated thought and actions?
Consider it done.
Nothing Google does or supports is actually a leftist anything. You’re making the same mistake all Americans make - buying into the propaganda that left/right is about social permissiveness. It’s actually an economic spectrum, and every meaningful company or organization is either far right, or extreme right.
So Marxism isn’t left? Alrighty then.
You think Google doodles are advocacy? Yeesh.
Where would you draw the line between a gesture that implies advocacy and a gesture that doesn’t?
Doodles from a very long time ago too lol