I have a 16-year-old son. I’m in my early 30s (had him very young) and a professional footballer. My son also dreams of becoming a successful footballer (he’s been playing since he was 6), but he’s just… not great. He’s good, but not great - and in this extremely competitive industry you need to be at least great in order to even stand a chance. So I told him, as someone who’s been doing this for a very, very long time & is active in this sphere, that he should find another, more attainable dream. He took it as me not believing in him, but I’m just objective and realistic.
I don’t think you’re a jerk, but I think you’ve handled this badly and you’re using ‘objective and realistic’ to justify it, but that’s just code for not believing in him. Were you great at 16? Or were you merely good enough to get signed and thus benefit from decades of training and coaching that improved you? Do you not believe he will also improve? That’s literally what not believing in him means.
It’s one thing to inject some realism, to manage expectations, to encourage him to have a fallback, etc, and quite another to effectively say ‘You’re shit at this so you should just go get a job’ or whatever.
Depends where you live. In America? Yes you’re a jerk because you are questioning the American “dream”. Anywhere else? As long as you explain why and support your kid in whatever choice he/she makes you’re fine.
You should support your kid, even if you’re not convinced of his chances of making it. Anything else is just going to permanently damage your relationship. The best you can do is make sure he has a plan B. If he’s good in school he’s well on his way to that, so not much to worry about.
Don’t tell him that he can’t do something. Let him figure it out on his own.
Sometimes you need an honest feedback, and your family should be the first one to hear. It doesn’t mean they are right, but it may save you some time.
Perhaps an unpopular opinion: no, you’re not a jerk for doing this. Steering our children onto a realistic path of reasonable success and happiness is part of our job as parents. We should pursue this gently, but it mustn’t be avoided. Parenting is hard. We won’t always get it right.
When you punish a person for dreaming their dreams don’t expect them to thank or forgive you.
don’t expect them to thank or forgive you.
Should already be used to that. aka, being a parent. Some lessons have to be learned first-hand. Id still advocate for supporting their dream. My approach is generally to explain why I disagree and then support them while they find out the same thing for themselves and try not to say “I told you so.” Sometimes theyll surprise me.
The best ever second generation footballer out of Lemmy.
Probably not the same kind of footballer, but this also seems relevant…
By July
You’d made a whole bunch of brand new friends
People you used to look down on
And you’d figured out a way to make real money
Giving ends to your friends and it felt stupendous
Chrome spokes on your Japanese bikeBut selling acid was a bad idea…
Sometimes when people lose their dreams, they replace them with more unhealthy dreams…
Regardless of talent kids should always have a backup plan. What if he broke his leg and couldn’t get back into shape? Shit happens.
I don’t think you’re a jerk. Your son is 16, more than old enough to handle it. The fact of the matter is that, in professional sports, most young boys are scouted by the time they’re his age; if it hasn’t happened yet, it probably won’t.
He needs to start planning for a more realistic future, but he’s allowed to think you’re being too hard on him. You don’t have to be responsible for his mistakes if he chooses to make them, you already did your job by telling him to think more realistically.
Do you think he might be good enough for a foreign league if he works his ass off? Not every basketball player is good enough for the NBA, but a lot are good enough to play in China or Europe, for example. Maybe, if this career is what he really wants, it would help your relationship if you gave him some pointers about playing in a league he might be more competitive in.
That said, you could also try to see if he might enjoy sports medicine or some other adjacent career, like training. Surely you know what might be a good fit for him outside of being a player, considering your experience. Giving him other options that still allow him to be close to the sport might be a nice way to show him that you still think he can be involved in professional sports in some capacity.
You’re literally a professional and your first thought isn’t to use your own skills to coach him to get better?
All industries that pay well are competitive.
Who said I haven’t? I said he’s been playing since he was 6. At a pro football club, with coaches and all + obviously my help. That’s the nurture part. The nature part also has to be good though.
Who said I haven’t?
Well you didn’t say either way in your initial post. How are people who read it supposed to just know you’ve already nurtured it? It doesn’t come off that way from the way it’s written, just so you know.
If it doesn’t say either way, you also shouldn’t assume and make such a strongly worded comment. This post doesn’t give me a clue in either direction, just so you know.
You should have known that there was nothing to gain by telling him what you did. Kids that age are smart enough to realize that if they aren’t being selected to the local all-star team, it’s because they’re not an all-star. If they go to football camp and they aren’t one of the best people at the camp, they’ll realize that they’re not very likely to go pro. But you decided to make it your business at a time when you didn’t need to, and that makes you a jerk.
You said that you’re just being objective and realistic, right, but you decided to tell your son your opinion, and not someone else. If you were actually trying to be objective, you would have told everyone on the team what you thought about their potential. Of course that would be really rude, which is the point.
What you could have done is what many other people have mentioned in the comments. Something about how there’s no guarantee that anyone can make it pro, or how long they’ll last if they do, because random injuries can end your career, and the median length of a professional footballer isn’t very long anyway, so there’s still the rest of life to live.
If your asking, you probably already know the answer.
Maybe you could have said something like “A top player needs to know math, because they’ve got to do a lot of investing. they should have otehr languages, because they’ll be playing all over the world. Science and computers because…”
Did he ask for your opinion?
You’re doing him a favor. Even if he was just as good as you, he wouldn’t be guaranteed to have as much luck as you did. Might never be seen by the right people at the right time. He needs a realistic career plan regardless of whether he tries to make it professionally.
When you punish a person for dreaming his dream, don’t expect him to thank our forgive you.
He’s right, you don’t believe in him, and if he’s not great at football even though he’s living with a pro, that shows me how little you value him. He could be great but what are you doing to help him get there besides crushing his dreams?
If you want to salvage this relationship at all you need to apologize and do everything you can to support him. Training, encouragement, the works.
It’s better that he tries to achieve his dream and have to do something else than to have it crushed out of him by his own father.
This is incredibly bad advice
How? You’re saying it’s better to tell your kid their dreams suck and they shouldn’t try? What a great parenting strategy.
If he doesn’t have what it takes, and he keeps encouraging him to go for that anyway, then he’d be encouraging his son to live in a fantasy world until he gets mowed down by the real one. That would not be a favor to his son. It would be a failure in his duty to prepare him for adult life.
if he’s not great at football even though he’s living with a pro, that shows me how little you value him.
Some people simple don’t have the ability to be good at some things, no matter how hard they work at it, no matter who mentors them. Very, very few people have the ability to be a Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart regardless of what kind of mentorship they have.
Let me give you a concrete example.
I’ve had a major shoulder surgery after tearing the shit out of my supraspinatus and the labrum. The supraspinatus passes through the acromium process on the scapula. The acromium process has roughly three different shapes, which are largely determined by genetics. A type I acromium process is smooth, and allows the spuraspinatus to pass through easily. Type II and type III acromium processes have pronounced ‘hook’ shapes–type III significantly more so–that make injury to the supraspinatus much more probable. I have a type II acromium process. Had Mary Lou Retton been my mother and coach, and I’d tried to be a gymnast, I would have destroyed both of my shoulders long before I was ever going to be going to nation-level events; the limits of the shape of my scapula would have made success impossible, given that a strong and stable shoulder is required in gymnastics, regardless of sex/gender. I would likewise be unable to be a competitive powerlifter, for much the same reason; working up to a nationally competitive snatch would have also destroyed my shoulders. (And, in point of fact, it was working on push-presses that killed it.)
People are not a tabula rasa, only needing the proper encouragement to become paragons in a given field.
You are suffering from several fallacies.
- “Unless you can be the best, it’s not worth trying”
Fortunately, the world doesn’t operate this way. There are people who are mediocre, and sometimes poor, at playing football professionally or other professions. Your line of thinking would lead to only one person playing football at a time, the person who is the best at it, and everyone else should give up.
- “Meritocracy is real and the only determining factor of success”
While meritocracy is a nice thought, that the best inevitably rise to the top, it’s not necessarily true. Just as there’s circumstances that keep talent from succeeding, like financial background, biases against people, and luck, those things also can lift up the less talented. There’s many celebrities that aren’t as talented at acting as someone stuck in a small town.
- “I trust OP’s assessment”
As far as you know, op could be wrong. Maybe the kid plays great and OP is too critical, you don’t know. This could be a critical mistake on OP’s end, and making the kid give up doesn’t help regardless.
- “hard work doesn’t mean success, innate ability is the only thing that matters”
If this were true, no one would need to practice anything. You said Mozart succeeded because of his mentoring, but then argue for people having lack of natural talent leading to failure.
- “my back story is relevant”
It was also tempting to throw in the argument of verbosity. But your shoulder injury, or that some people are incapable of physically doing things, isn’t relevant. The kid is physically capable of playing football. It’s a false equivalence.
- “the kid will have the same level of ability at 16 forever”
You presume that this kid will only have the ability he is at, and that even with training, won’t get better. This ties into your belief in natural talent a bit, but it’s still pretty foolish to assume professional football players play at the level they did at 16, so it’s also foolish to assume that 16 is where this kid will peak.
- “the kid achieving the dream is the most important thing here”
This is where you missed the the bigger picture. There’s more on the line than just success at football, there’s a whole relationship at stake, and a kid’s mental and emotional health.
So that all said, look at it this way. There’s four scenarios that could’ve taken place, with four factors. Kid gets encouraged, let’s shorthand that to E. Kid gets discouraged, D. Kid succeeds at professional football, S. Kid fails at professional football, F.
ES is obviously the best. Kid gets support, becomes professional football player, everyone’s happy.
EF is disappointing, but salvageable. The kid gets the attitude of not giving up and at least Dad has his back. Maybe he tries something else after not making the cut, and has a great career at something he’s able to do, but at least he tried. He’s not going to be able to try forever, but he can at least try something new with a solid foundation.
DS is a tragic hero. Kid gets there but doesn’t have a great relationship with Dad. Success is tainted by bitterness, and every win is to prove Dad wrong. Doesn’t have a great relationship with Dad, and probably has a lasting issue because of it.
DF is the worst possible outcome, and at this point it’s the most likely. Kid has an even worse issue with Dad, dreams are crushed, and he grows up bitter and resentful. He’s taught to not try for anything he’s interested in, and lives a life of miserable mediocrity.
It’s my opinion that it’s better for parents to encourage their children in their dreams, because the success rate is probably higher and at the very least they get the support they need to try something different. It’s almost never a great idea to discourage a child because that leads to resentment and lethargy.
You aren’t saving anyone by telling them to give up. That’s a decision they should make on their own. This is even more true for a child who is still developing who they are and how they see the world.
You’re making a ton of straw-man arguments.
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You don’t have to be the best. You do have to be good enough to get scouted by a professional team if your goal is to play professionally. I never at any point said that it wasn’t worth playing if you couldn’t be the best or do it professionally. I spend a lot of time shooting competitively; it’s likely that I will never make Master or Grandmaster in anything, and as a result I’m never going to be sponsored or be able to earn a living at it. (…Not that the money is very good anyways.) So what? I still have fun.
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In sports, playing professionally is a meritocracy. Socioeconomic class matters insofar as having more wealth and privilege means that you’ll have access to better training prior to becoming a professional. But the child in question already has access to training, through a parent that plays professionally. But that’s all the farther that socioeconomic class gets you in sports. People from poorer backgrounds often get to go far in sports, if they have the skill.
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Yes, OP could be wrong. On the other hand, OP is claiming to be a professional in the field, and is therefore more likely to have an informed opinion.
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Success is a combination of directed effort, an inherent capability; it’s not one or the other. If you lack certain inherent capabilities, then all the directed effort in the world won’t get you where you want to be. You can have all the gifts to achieve greatness in a given field, and yet fail completely if you don’t carefully direct your ability in that area.
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See above. The kid already has access to top-tier training, and is not making the grade necessary to perform at a professional level. Ergo, the part that is lacking is capability. …Which is why my anecdote is relevant; it’s not my unwillingness to work my ass off that has limited my power lifting aspirations, it’s my physical capabilities. (And yes, I really did work at power lifting. And will again once my shoulder finished healing, even though I’m never going to be competitive at any level.)
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Of course the kid isn’t going to be at the same level forever. But he’s not on track to be at a level where he’s capable of playing professionally. A 16yo that’s capable of going pro–esp. when they have access to high-level training–would be expected to be performing at a certain level. According to OP, he isn’t. The probability is that, while he will continue to improve (up until age catches up with him), he is not going to be at a professional level in time to make a career of it.
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You’re drawing a false dichotomy between being honest/realistic with your children, and having a relationship with them. I’m gathering, from what you’re saying, that you don’t believe that the parent should give their child a realistic assessment of their performance, and should simply be encouraging; it that correct? It seem like you believe that putting all of your effort into a goal, and failing to achieve that goal would not cause deep bitterness on its own; am I reading that correctly?
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“It’s my opinion that it’s better for parents to encourage their children in their dreams […]” I partially disagree. I think that parents need to encourage children to set realistic goals in life, and goals that can be stretch goals. Maybe that looks like going to school to become a biologist, and going on to medical school if biology ends up being fairly easy for them. Maybe that looks like going into a trade if they’re good at working with their hands. Playing professional sports–or being a touring musician that makes enough to live on, etc.–is like winning a jackpot in the lottery. Sure, you gotta play in order to win, but for every person that wins there’s millions of people that don’t. I would hope that you would say that anyone planning for retirement by buying lottery tickets was a fool, even if that person was your child. But even so, you can play sport for fun.
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IMO, maybe a jerk, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing. I think more people need to hear news they don’t want to hear from someone they trust.
What I’ve told most teens looking at the future post high school is, have more then one career/life goal. When I was in middle school, I thought I wanted to be a professional chef. Only to discover I like cooking. I love cooking for friends/family… I loathed the toxic “professional” setting (especially thanks to Gordan Ramsey, who 20 years ago glamorized being a right jackass in the kitchen, pretending that was acceptable). Now I’ve worked in IT for nearly 2 decades and what I’ve done in my field has changed a lot.
I think lying to him and saying, “You can be anything, you can do anything, you’re amazing!!!” type of parenting is going to lead to problems if/when the plan doesn’t work out and they have no fallback. Personally, coddling your kid and lying to them just because it’s a short-term positive emotion (or you’re afraid of saying the truth), IMO is bad parenting. You’re not there to make sure they get the “right feels” or to be their best friend. You prepare them for the real world. Final note: you hear a lot of professional sports players say “I had a deal with my parents that if <sport> didn’t work out, I’d do <something else>.”
