They sell things that come in cups, or with napkins. Lots of people cycle/run/walk here instead of driving, seems pretty stupid.
Taking away the bins doesn’t mean you don’t produce rubbish…
Edit: I think there is still a bin IN the cafe, but most people eat/drink outside. Lots of people asking staff where the bins are. Still hypocritical I think though? (And still mildly infuriating to remove well used bins!)
…huh? They want to cut down on litter by removing the convenient locations for people to dispose their would-be litter?
Fuck there are some incredibly fucking stupid people in charge of places right now…
Thats what they do in Japan and it suuuuucks so bad. By far my least favorite thing about the country. It’s so annoying to carry trash around and the few bins that exist are so tiny and always overflowing.
People praise Japan for cleanliness but let me tell you it’s not because of the lack of trash bins but because people genuinely care about spaces and more bins would just make that easier.
This is gospel truth and people downvoting this are delusional.
Growing up in the 60s, we saw anti-littering commercials, called PSAs (Public Service Announcements),on TV every day. Ask any older American what they remember about those PSAs, and they will say “The crying Indian.”
Today, they never show those anymore, and i am seeing young people littering as a result. I was recently in a fast food lot, and saw a car pull in, a young guy about 20 get out, and throw a bunch old fast food trash into the bushes, then walk into the restaurant. He passed a trash can next to the door on his way in, where he could have tossed his trash, but he just tossed it in the bushes instead.
I collected up the trash, and set it on the hood of his fancy hot rod.
I’ve seen plenty of similar examples in the last few years, because young people dont see those PSAs telling them not to, and even their parents havent been educated to teach them.
I was born in the early 90s but I saw those PSAs in school. We were taught very early that littering is not only immoral but illegal. We were pretty much scared into thinking of the environment. I like that approach. Made me respect the environment into my adulthood
I’ve seen mongoloids throw trash on the floor while they stood less than a foot away from the trashcan. Should’ve thrown him in the trash.
I remember those commercials they ran into the early 80’s. Peter Sarstdet song in the background
Idk, that was before my time and it just seems common sense to me to not litter 🤷♂️ the trash doesn’t just disappear and it will become someone else’s problem.
It feels to me a lot of people don’t care if it becomes someone else’s problem and that mentality goes through all parts of their lives.
And that was the secondary effect of PSAs like the litter campaign. The underlying message was that we are all in this together, we have to live with each other, so lets try to clean up after ourselves because it benefits us all.
That message being burned in our brains at such a young age contributed to our sense of pride in America. Today, it’s just everyone for themselves.
That might sound backwards but it isn’t
Squirrels and raccoons will rummage, and disperse trash. There isnt much you can do about that beyond 1. Harm wildlife or 2. Reduce trash.
No racoons here. The previous bins had spring loaded flaps to keep the animals out.
Or 3, provide animal-proof garbage disposals.
🙄
And you think that’s going to happen by removing the trashcans?
Think?
It’s well established peer reviewed scientific literature.
That paper has nothing to do with trash or cans rofl
Or
4. Continue to treat people as spoiled toddlers and hire servants to clean up after them.I can attest that people around me in the south talk about how they love nature but if opening the trash can requires more than 3 brain cells they will most likely just throw their in the back of their truck and know it will blow out down the road or drop it next to the trash can and be proud they are keeping some custodial staff employed
Yeah, typical Americans - won’t look elsewhere for solutions…
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/bear-proof-garbage-bins-made-in-lethbridge-1.4542351
You missed the the bit about dumbest tourists.
I get it that it is hip to hate on Americans right now, but your post is so unnecessarily self-righteous.
It’s been hip to hate on Americans for decades. It’s just more justified now. But you’re right, not because of bears.
Yeah, typical Americans - won’t look elsewhere for solutions…
We have those all over the place. Large National Parks like Yosemite are a special corner of hell because you quite literally have hordes of tourists from all over the world visiting on a daily basis. Randos who’ve rarely ever left the city see a can like that and may not know how to use it. In a place like Yosemite that rando could easily be from anywhere in the world.
Meanwhile I know of dozens of these kinds of cans located in some very small parks and camping areas here in Wyoming and no one has any problems with them at all.
Us “Americans” have those cans already and many of us know how to use them. You’ll need to find some other kind of shit to sling around.
No bears left in blighty.
And when it’s full or people still don’t want to walk 20 feet to them?
Also nothing is “animal proof” it’s all resistant and reliant on humans not being asses. Which they always prove they are when it comes to garbage.
Providing garbages doesn’t make people use them…
And when it’s full
They don’t magically empty themselves, you have to hire someone to empty them.
Which is the REAL reason places are removing bins. Everything else is just lies. They are reducing labor costs. That is ALL.
or people still don’t want to walk 20 feet to them?
This is the sort of case where I’ll make an effort to pick it up and throw it away. Even better if visibly clean (not in the bushes, not wet) and something somebody may have just forgot.
If there’s no trash can anywhere, I likely won’t unless certain conditions align.
I’ll go out on a limb that Raccoons won’t rummage here :)
I agree with the sentiment but if they have a cafe selling things in disposable packaging then the best thing they can do is provide bins to deal with it. Pretending they don’t generate rubbish is just a false accounting trick.
There aren’t many wild camping spots in the UK, especially in forests. Definitely no raccoons either haha. This area would be more for walking or picnicking.
Or 3) change the garbage regularly on a bin with a latching lid. (common in forested areas)
This isn’t just a random bit of forest either, it’s near a shop that’s providing the public with a bunch of disposable items like paper cups and napkins. Not providing somewhere to dispose of those is inevitability going to lead to people leaving their garbage behind.
please clean up after yourself.
Gentrified forest is the most cursed phrase I heard in a minute.
Old people have moved there and the prices have skyrocketed.
I think it’s a pretty good description. Has a tarmac car park, cafe, bike hire, 3 go ape routes, wheelchair accessible routes and until recently, bins!
You should look up the definition of “gentrification.” There are a ton of options that don’t suggest that the homeless people in the forest are being forced out and replaced with wealthier homeless people.
Maybe “commercialized” would be a better word choice? Alternatively, “developed” or “sanitized?”
What does homelessness have to do with anything? Gentrification isn’t specifically about homelessness, I don’t see anyone else mentioning it before now… where did you pull that from?
Gentrification seems to mean the rapid renovation of an area to appeal to a wealthier crowd, which this could easily cover.
Generally, usage of the term “gentrification” refers to the improvement of neighborhoods - or other places where people live, like apartment complexes - and, due to increased cost of living, the displacement of the people who used to live there. Displacement of less wealthy current residents when gentrification occurs is so common that it’s implied. If it weren’t, people wouldn’t have such low opinions of gentrification.
If a forest has been gentrified, therefore, then - if you interpret “gentrified” in the same way - it follows that people who have been living there have been displaced. And since those people were living in a forest - not in a cabin in a forest - they’re necessarily homeless. Since OP didn’t say that they were building houses or apartments in the forest, that would mean that the wealthier people who displaced them were also homeless.
Since the context was another commenter calling “gentrified forest” a cursed phrase, I don’t think I’m alone in thinking that.
Poor people won’t feel at home if there isn’t trash strewn everywhere. They’d probably avoid going to that place.
You are right, I was thinking the definition more being taking it up market, fancier etc. didn’t realise the term was more for the human effect.
It’s like wilderness for Europeans!
Why can’t they have a dumpster with lid?
People are just going to litter if they didn’t plan ahead to bring a trash bag.
They had some reasonably nice bins with wooden shells around them and spring loaded doors to keep the birds etc out.
See how much garbage you can stack on/wedge into the sign before they put bins back there.
I think the site office has a post box
That’s just a hassle for the postal service and people sending mail; they undoubtedly have nothing to do with this. (tampering with mail is also a felony…)
As in, their reception’s front door has a letter box.
Ah, I see. I was picturing the typical standalone postbox that you deposit letters to be mailed in.
It mildly infuriates me that you can’t see the logic in taking your rubbish with you when you leave.
Saying they are committed to producing no rubbish on site on a sign, then selling things that result in rubbish, is hypocritical.
Do you have an example of something that would be sold that had no resulting rubbish?
No, which is why it’s stupid to take bins away from stores/cafes.
I don’t see a cafe in the picture? Are you sure this isn’t down the trail and the cafe still has a garbage…?
Cafe deals with its own garbage, and I’m sure if you asked to put your napkin in it, they wouldn’t have a single issue.
Going from OPs description as the sign doesn’t show the area. There is a couple benches in the background, which leads me to believe it’s reasonably accurate.
Obv the situation is a little different if OPs not being honest.
Even then, the cafe will take your garbage and put in their bin. They don’t want their refuse filled up with public waste as the charge would fall on them.
Clearly they have a way of still dealing with waste…. And why wouldn’t they take their own waste back? People are going off the deep end without even stopping to think for half a fucking second.
Or… You could just put a bin where the public can use it.
This is stupid.
Photo is under the red dot (
you can see the play area in the background of the photo)nvm, no you can’t. But that’s where it is!
So the inside of the cafe obviously has bins that could be used… and they don’t want to PUBLIC non cafe people filling it……
Do people even stop to think for 2 seconds before bitching?
So only mildly infuriating?
bread bowl lol
You eat the spoon?
Bread comes in a package… The soup that goes in it had a container…. Utensils to consume…?
Food that comes on reused plates and/or drinks in reused cups. Much of the advertising around littering prevention was developed by industries who saw profits in creating a lot of single use items that wanted to shift the blame for any litter to individuals instead of them. When you see an empty bottle of Pepsi floating in a pond, Pepsi deserves more criticism than whoever dropped that specific bottle since they are the ones who brought it into the world, and they do it on a much larger scale than any 1 person could ever manage.
Food that comes on reused plates and/or drinks in reused cups.
The food all came in packaging, and stuff breaks or gets dropped, NOTHING is ever rubbish free dude…
If you are a business generating rubbish, it is your moral responsibility to account for that rubbish. The business selling stuff doesn’t have their employees filling their pockets with the bulk food packaging rubbish at the end of the day to dispose of at home; they have their own bins. They just don’t want to be responsible for all the rubbish they generate cause it costs them more money than trying to put that responsibility on someone else.
If you are a business generating rubbish, it is your moral responsibility to account for that rubbish.
Yes and if you take them their garbage they gave you with their food, they will deal with it. They just don’t want to deal with the public’s granola bar wrappers, so they are now where they control the garbage.
If you bring them your garbage and they dispose of it in their bins, does that not fit your moral requirement? Or do you want bins every 10 feet to satisfy your laziness? Can’t walk balk to where you paid for stuff to return the garbage….,?
You seem to think there is no bins… obviously the cafe will produce garbage, I never stated they wouldn’t. I was pointing out people like you, that there HAS TO STILL BE BINS. So yes, they do have a way of dealing with it. So take your rubbish to them, and they will gladly deal with it. Does that work?
It’s a cafe area; they are giving you trash with your meal/drink, not providing a bin for it, then expecting you to pack it out.
Expecting people to packout the garbage they brought with them is one thing (that still doesn’t get followed); but if you’re going to provide the public with trash, you’ve gotta give them somewhere to dispose of it.
While this is the ideal outcome, in reality people are just going to throw their trash in the bushes.
People who do this already did even when bins were still there. Because placing rubbish into pocket or backpack is so hard!
And they should be fined for dumping.
Or the park could invest in basic services instead of criminalizing guests.
Littering used to be illegal most places. It should be illegal pretty much every public place. If you’re breaking the law, you’re criminalizing yourself. This is like saying we shouldn’t resurface roads because it criminalizes speeders.
I can see taking things that I brought with me like granola bar wrappers and water bottles, but if you have a cafe selling cheeseburgers, fountain drinks, and coffee, it seems dumb to expect people to carry all that home rather than allowing them to throw it away at the same place they bought and consumed it.
Yeah but the Cafe does have bins inside. It’s just the park that removed the public waste bins.
Well, I hadn’t seen that mentioned anywhere, so if that’s the case I agree it’s not a big deal to pack your trash back to the cafe.
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We survive that way in Japan with almost no bins. Of course the odd person litters, but most don’t; if we can pack it in, we can pack it out. Now, if there were no bin inside the cafe, that would be idiotic.
I do have the impression that Japanese people have a much stronger “social responsibility” with public stuff compared to most westerners.
Whilst this is not wrong and shame is a big motivator in Japan, some otherwise bored cops fining literers for a while would probably prevent that situation. On the other hand, I think maintaining some bins (infra to install and hardware + maintenance cleaning and maybe the odd security check) would be cheaper, beeter, and friendlier
*all westerners
Really. Japanese society has a lot of issues on its own, but there’s also a lot to learn from them.
I disagree with the broad brush as not all westerners nor easterners would fit into that (see rural areas that suddenly got disposable travel income), you are right that Japan is far from perfect but we could all benefit from some exchange
Translation: we fired the guy that empties the trash, it’s your job now.
I get it if the trash can is a mile up the trail. I have a problem when they take away a trash can next to a picnic area.
We have a commitment to producing no rubbish on-site. Well, we had one, but then budget cuts took away our garbage bins, so now I guess you have a commitment to producing no rubbish on-site.
Performative capitalism + fake environmentalism at it’s worst. Ugh.
We all know there are plenty of trash cans available in non-capitalist societies, and everyone takes turns emptying them.
Dont know what you mean by performative capitalism, but carry in carry out is pretty standard fare environmentalism. Though these people are not carrying in, they are making the decision to buy onsite and should then accept carry out responsibilities.
That’s not how this works.
I’d give this some odds of reducing trash pollution. It can seem frustrating, but it MAY change people’s behavior in a way that reduces litter. Behavioral economics can be counterintuitive.
No. Most people just start littering when there’s no trash bins nearby.
Think of the stupidest person you know, etc etc.
Hardly an issue of stupidity. We’ve got shops a short ride away that sell you disposables with the intent of bringing them into the park. And we’ve got a park that’s removed the bins used to cart the waste back out again.
The stupidity is in the policy. Either you have to prevent people from bringing this stuff in (incredibly difficult) or you have to manage the waste that exists by centralizing its collection and export (significantly easier and cheaper).
People that litter are atupid/lazy/poorly educated.
Unfortunately, if you don’t provide bins, some people are going to litter. Does my head in.
Selling food that comes with garbage included, in a location without bins, is littering.
But that’s why you take the rubbish home with you, where there is a bin. Where’s the end user responsibility?
You used “but” as if you were going to disagree with me, but then you didn’t. It was strange.
They’re shit people. I take cans home to recycle because we don’t have proper recycling at my workplace.
Yes, they are. But that does not make it better that there is no bin. I have been in a situation with no bin but trash that can not simply be carried (disgusting liquid) and had to dump it. That is extremely rare for me, I usually pick up others trash. But there are situations where you simply need a bin, no matter how green you are.
If you operate a business that sells things in paper plates and wrappers, you certainly have a moral responsibility to have waste receptacles to collect those waste products.
The problem isn’t that a park lacks trash cans. The problem is that a cafe removed their trash bins.
I feel the same way, but about places that sell coffee having an obligation to provide a public bathroom.
Glares angrily at 7-11
Let us sing praise for the Rhineland Palatinatian Landesverordnung zur Ausführung des Gaststättengesetzes (Gaststättenverordnung - GastVO -), in effect since 1971, which mandates one toilet each for males and females in every restaurant or pub, and more for larger establishments.
The he cafe still has bins inside, they have a way to collect their refuse.
The park removed the bins since people from the cafe weee likely overfilling it.
Where does the sign say the cafe removed them…? The sign is from the ministry of forestry and speaks only for what they did. Remove the park bins.
How do you know that? You’re not OP.
The OP edited their 5-hour old post about 2 hours ago according to the timestamp. Your comment is only 1 hour old 🤔.
You’re the one vehemently claiming the cafe removed the bins. So I throw that right back in your ignorant face.
For my side, we have a nice little sign that explains everything, if you would be arsed to read it that is…
Even Wait Disney knew this doesn’t work
Walt Disney was a capitalist charging admission to a controlled capitalist environment. This is public land that we all collectively own and should care for. Trash bins add to overhead and are bad for surrounding wildlife. We can all just do our part. We owe Disney nothing. We owe the land and our society everything. Big difference.
