On the internet, it is common to call a guy a misogynist, but what is the exact meaning of misogynist? Is it 1. A guy who hates women? Or 2. a guy who thinks men are superior. Or 3. A guy who believes in women should follow traditional norms like cooking.
1 and 2 for sure. 3 if he believes this for all women to be true. Not so much if he only wishes his partner to be traditional. This however needs to be communicated and also wished by the to be house wife. Not so hard really. We are all humans with the same rights, no matter how we look down there or what hormons we got flowing through our veins. Just as we want respect and freedom we need to grant that to those around us. Or face judgement by our peers.
I think any of those three could be called misogynist. It’s a pretty flexible term. It just means someone who is prejudiced against women.
All of the above.
Words very often have multiple definitions, or usages.
The word misogyny comes from Greek roots, miso (hatred), and gyne (woman). So misogynist literally means woman hater.
However, the form that the hate can take may not be the kind of rabid, foaming hatred you think of as hate. It can include anything from dislike or mistrust, up to the extreme of hatred.
It can also include prejudice against women, which isn’t necessarily hate in the usual sense, but has the same effect.
More, when using it as a bigoted person that the bigotry is focused on women, it can definitely include stereotyping and the propagation of stereotyping.
The term does get a little over used to include people that are just poorly informed rather than those that actively practice misogyny as a belief, but even that still applies in usage.
These aren’t different things. If you “hate” women, you think little of them. You think you’re better than them. You think they’re dumb baby machines that belong in the kitchen.
If you do #2 or #3, you also do #1 even if you don’t think you do.
Not necessarily, my father always respects women but he thinks wife should do all the house work
he thinks wife should do all the house work
my father always respects women
No he doesn’t…
How
he thinks wife should do all the house work
How is that hate
You used the word hate.
Exactly
Who said hate? What I said is that it’s a lack of respect
But he respects women
All wives in all relationships ever? So does that mean your dad thinks all men live in filth? Do gay men all unanimously hire house cleaners? Are gay women the only people he thinks deserve equitable labor division in the home?
That’s a funny kind of “respect”. I think most people share a different definition of it.
He never said that men live in filth, but he said that women are better homemakers than men
Daddy was wrong.
Point is not about whether he is wrong or right
But, for the record, he is wrong.
I know
I would venture to say that if your father thinks your mother would do all the house work because she is a woman, then that is, in fact, misogyny (he is not actually respecting her in this case).
If he thinks she should do all the housework because they’ve talked and she really is happier in the role of homemaker and has chosen that as her life path while he has chosen to work a job that pays well enough to enable that, well then in that case it isn’t necessarily misogyny. But that is just about the only case in which it isn’t, including if she accepted being the homemaker but didn’t or wouldn’t have chosen it over a career if that seemed more feasible.
Can you explain how to expect a wife to do housework is hate for women. I know both are wrong but still those are two different things
Because the only thing that makes a wife different from a husband is the fact that she’s a woman. There is nothing inherently “womanly” or “wifely” about housework, and expecting her to do it all must involve thinking there is: an unjustified prejudice exclusively reserved for women. I.e. misogyny.
I think you are confusing gender roles with misogyny
When gender roles put an undue and unwanted burden on women, when they become a rule, that is misogyny. If they were putting an extra, unwanted burden on men it would be misandry, but that is a much less used term simply because it’s so much less prevalent.
Why the downvotes? The community is called “no stupid questions”…
Because you don’t have to sub to see it. I’m not subbed to this, but I see it in my feed all the time because I browse all
Browse all in a practical sense is subscribe all.
I didn’t downvote this, but I can understand why
It feels almost inflammatory
Judging by OPs comments so far, it does seem to at least approach that line.
There’s been a lot of both sides bait recently
both sides bait
What is that?
JAQing off as the cool kids say “I’m just asking questions” it’s a way to troll.
If someone says black lives matter inevitably someone else will say all lives matter. The all lives matter comment is the both sides bait.
Lemmy kinda seems like playing chess games nowadays, rage bait, both sides bait, whats next, the trolls gambit?
master bait
Username checks out?
Not relevant is what it is
Arguably, all three.
It’s not the easiest concept to define. Kate Mann defines it as “the law enforcement branch of the patriarchy”. It’s not the philosophical justification of sexist beliefs, it’s the (often violent) enforcement of them.
Definitely 1. and 2., imho also 3.
Yes.
Someone who hates or oppresses women. It’s an aggressive form of sexism.
Women can have internalized misogyny, as well, it’s not just men.
Your #1 is the etymological meaning of the word. For precise usage, there should be at least some element of #2, lest you inadvertently misclassify a misanthrope who hates everybody. That’s assuming you’re using a gender-inclusive sense of the word ‘guy’; anyone can be a misogynist.
Mysogyny is the belief that women and the passtimes associated with cultural womanhood are less valuable, capable, worthy of resources and/or should have culturally different expectations or additional restrictions than men. Anything that places phenotypic female bodies or cultural “woman related stuff” on a heirachy beneath what is afforded to men is basic misogyny.
In practice a lot of mysogyny doesn’t look like active hatred. It can be internalized by women themselves who don’t on their face hate being female but still see womanly passtimes as being lesser. If are a woman who hates the women who wear pink, wear makeup and enjoy flirting with boys because you think their choice of expression of femininity is silly and purile… You are buying in to a heirachy based on cultural gendered lines that places the more feminine centric expressions as being lesser.
The targets aren’t always women. Misogyny for instance can be seen when a gay or non-gender conforming person is riddiculed for being lesser for wanting to express the feminine as the underlying assumption is that the trappings of femininity is not a choice between two equally vaild options but choosing an option which is lower than what they should want. Meanwhile women emulating the masculine is not usually commented on because when the masculine is aspirational and the feminine is silly, trite garbage for inferior people it makes logical sense to ditch it.
Misogyny exists in our use of language. Examine for instance the word “pussy” which equates the female genetalia with cowardly behavior and “unmannly” inferiority. You are acting as a woman which is supposed to be insulting because women are not just categorically different but equal… They are implied to be an inferior state of being.
Furthermore some misogyny can be “benevolent” - CRITICALLY this does not mean it is good. Benevolent misogyny is harmful - but it means that the misogyny comes from a place of misplaced pity and assumption of inferiority. Treating a person as weaker, more delicate, in need of help and unable to make their own decisions or utilize their own capacity for handling things is also misogyny. Being treated as though you are a child who will never grow up will drive people to bite through solid steel levels of frustration and madness or worse injure their self worth, sense of independence and empower learned helplessness.
The companion peice to misogyny is misandry. The idea that men are all to some degree inherently violent, sex motivated and unsafe for women and children to be around and the idea that any choice of a man to express the feminine is abhorant limiting the options of men to participate in society in ways not outlined by traditional masculine expectations.
Unlearning misogyny is not an easy thing. It is a process of dismantling behavior based out of something you may not have given much consideration. Our society is generally kind of misogynist by default so reaching in and recognizing misogyny and choosing to leave it behind takes a lot of effort and willingness to honestly self critique.
Thank you, that was a wonderful write up
All 3 of those are misogynistic view points.
Let’s break this down.
- Not all misogynists are guys.
- “Misogyny” is like “homophobia” - the literal definition applies, so it includes people who actively hate women, but it’s much broader in scope than that. 2A. All three of your examples are examples of misogyny.
Since he decided to delete a bunch of his comments and this comment thread can’t be seen…
Since he decided to delete a bunch of his comments and this comment thread can’t be seen…
I’m a little confused. I see you accusing OP of saying things against women and then you go on to call him a slur that is specifically offensive to women, but none of those comments in the picture are the ones you’re accusing OP of saying.
Either I’m missing something, or there is quite the irony here.
Edit: Just read OP’s comment history, and yeah, seems to be a jerk and a misogynist. I still think your choice to call him a c*nt was a bit ironic in context though.
Just point out one misogynist comment and I will delete my account
The United States is the only country I know of in which that insult is considered misogynistic, and even then only when it is directed toward a woman. OP is not a woman, and, even though I reside in the United States, I do not consider myself an American. Regarding its offensiveness to women, yes, some women do consider it offensive. If any of them are reading this, then they can go ahead and be offended if they wish, that is their right. But the C-word is not misogynistic. Misogyny involves tools of gendered oppression, the way the N-word has long been a tool of racist oppression. The C-word has never had that sort of power.
If I had called him a “pussy”, then that is something different because it implies cowardice, as though people who own one are cowards. If I had accused him of having a small penis, then that would have been body-shaming and uncool. But cunt? Dick? Asshole? They are just words indicating someone is a jerk, which OP most certainly is.
I have done a lot…like, a lot of work on the vocabulary I employ. I have nothing but feminist men, women, and enbies in my circle, and we all hold each other accountable for the language we use. We shun ableist terms (“lame”, “crazy”), sex-shaming (“slut”), poverty-shaming (“white-trash”, “ghetto”), and a whole host of other very common terms in modern parlance. And, while a couple women I’ve known have had a distaste for the word “cunt”, they just didn’t like the way it sounded.
All this being said, thank you for what you do by trying to hold me accountable for the language I use.
