This question was inspired by a post on lemmy.zip about lowering the minimum age to purchase firearms in the US, and a lot of commeters brought up military service and training as a benchmark to normal civilians, and how if guns would be prevalent, then firearm training should be more common.
For reference, I live in the USA, where the minimum age to join the military is 18, but joining is, for the most part, optional. I also know some friends that have gone through the military, mostly for college benefits, and it has really messed them up. However, I have also met some friends from south korea, where I understand military service is mandatory before starting a more normal career. From what I’ve heard, military service was treated more as a trade school, because they were never deployed, in comparison to American troops.
I just wanted to know what the broader Lemmy community thought about mandatory military service is, especially from viewpoints outside the US.
Fuck that noise.
I will not befriend anyone who voluntarily served in the armed forces. Kind of like how I won’t associate with anyone who works for a weapons company or as a cop. If military service was mandatory in the USA, I would renounce my citizenship and attempt to emigrate to a more sane country. People who choose violence as a career are not worth knowing.
You should judge people for who they are. They absolutely change over time, and the military really likes indoctrinating kids before they get good critical thinking skills. Many recruits quite literally didn’t realize what they’ve signed up for, even without the unfathomable parts.
Indoctrinated is precisely the word I use to describe my pro military upbringing. Many people join young, realise what’s up and leave after minimum terms. I have no shame in saying I was basically brainwashed when I was younger.
Many place didn’t offer a lot of work in the 80s, my dad went to military for mechanical work, never saw action, was able to support his family and get educated as well. There used to be a lot more reasons/benefits to join.
I think your stance is a little stubborn, closed minded and one sided. I don’t care about military either, but damn.
Yeah, my comment was unpopular, but I’m anti-violence and stand by my words. You don’t have to commit violence to support a violent institution.
I like the idea because it gives people job experience and forces them to interact with a broader cross-section of society, and might help some people who wouldn’t otherwise do so consider it as a career, making the military more diverse. It also helps us be more prepared in the event of a major war. And obviously teenage conscripts should never be given combat deployments unless the homeland is literally being invaded, we’ve seen how traumatic that is even for people who self-select into it. I very much doubt it would do anything to decrease gun violence.
My response to the title: No
If I am being forced to, I will try to steer it towards any non-combant service like IT or (if necessary) social service.
I’ve thought a required 2 years military or 1 year in a customer service job like retail right after high school would make fast change to people’s attitudes and empathy.
I worked retail on a military base, you’d think they’d be better behaved that civilians, but they aren’t. Especially the Chief’s wives.
No, I won’t be addressing you by the rank of your equivalent to middle management husband.
maybe not, but from what i’ve seen the consequences are more fair, you don’t get 10 years in prison for doing dumbshit, you get 1000 pushups, or bathroom duty for a year, weird stuff like that. the only thing i really hated about the military was the E1s trolling high school hallways picking up underage girls. that shit was fucked.
Yeah it’s weird that people always ask this question in terms of military service.
I think mandatory public service would be good, with an option to choose non-combatant military roles
I don’t really have a solid stance on it. Case by case, country by country. But at least a country that has citizens that have gone through a little bit of service have people who are at least slightly more knowledgeable on how to defend themselves in case they need to rebel or defend themselves with a gun (so long as the people remember their training).
I was one of the last people in Sweden to muster for conscription, I failed the first (hearing) test and was discharged.
This was just before conscription was ended, and about a decade later we have conscription again in Sweden.
There are two main advantages to universal conscription in my oppinion.
- It gives the population unity, it is a unifying experience that you have in common with everyone, this creates a stronger society.
- It gives the population a general understanding of guns and military action, this is useful in war as people are already familiar with the basic concepts of firearms handling and military tactics, ok, they won’t be as good as professional soldiers, but they understand the concepts and that is a good foundation to build uppon.
So many people in the US join the military. I don’t really see a unifying experience happen over the pond besides PTSD…
Fair point, my experience is from Sweden where we have had peace for 200 years or so
6 percent. That’s the percentage of the US population who are veterans. I don’t think a military only mandatory service would work in the US but we don’t have the same effect just based on a volunteer military.
Works best for countries that have a primarily defensive military. You have a large population of resevists to draw on for an invasion, and unless there’s something wack going on with your government, there usually isn’t a problem of motivating draftees when your country was invaded.
Volunteer militaries tend to need propaganda to get people to join up, even in relative peacetime. That attracts a lot of people who like the idea of shooting people in other countries. Not everyone who joins up is like that, of course. Some are also in bad economic situations and have no other line of work, and some bow to family pressure. In any case, you’ll have an easier time convincing them to fight people abroad.
At least in the US, many young small time criminals are given the choice of jail or military.
My opinion is fuck no.
I think anyone who owns a car and lives in the suburbs or in a rural country area should have mandatory military service.
Professional army.
Support and train a reserve army of those willing. Citizens that could support the country and other citizens in the case of an invasion. Some countries do that. I like to think of those.
Only if otherwise necessary general service. E.g. active invasion you can’t otherwise oppose, or you can’t establish a minimum reserve.
Compare Switzerland. Everyone after secondary school gets a year learning how to work as a team and practice interdependence.
Seems like it’s working really well for them, as they have more guns per capita and almost zero mass shootings. Maybe that’s the thing they’re doing right?
Personally I don’t have an issue with it as it’s the only chance I and other poor kids had for entering college.
I had the idea that mass shootings were more of a cultural phenomenon exacerbated by the media. I mean, we don’t have them in my country either. And although some older people have gone through compulsory military training, it’s been slowly rescinded for the younger generations so it makes me wonder if that has any effect on people’s willingness to go on shooting sprees.
Switzerland was an inspiration for much of the american laws I believe. The second amendment used to say “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”. The American got rid of the militia (the training) and kept the guns, now we have chaos.
I think military service in general is kind of important since you can actually get attacked (thanks to russia for making my point).
We had mandatory military service for men in germany and it was canceled. I sure hope it stays that way bc it isnt efficient to make kids who have better options waste their time on something they dont actually want to do. We have a professional military for that. AND if we had it, women of course must go too.
But besides that especially in countries known for their warcrimes and batshit crazy politics, like the US, I think its clear that mandatory military training would be a bad idea.
I’m not for it but if mandatory service were a thing the population would be more hesitant to go to war knowing their flesh and blood might be included
The elite pay the politic to not let their precious off-spring be conscripted.
And if they can’t they will probably be send of to a foreign boarding school.If we have 100 percent service and they don’t serve then they don’t get the rights of citizenship either.
Sure, but it will never be 100% because there are medical excuses. And they will get someone to sign a paper saying they already served and were discharged because X. Where X is something serious enough for them not to get called back but not serious enough to be immediately noticeable or too harmful outside of the military, e.g. poor eyesight, torn ligament on the leg, etc. So their kids still won’t serve.
That’s why you do other things too. Ambulance drivers, library helpers, school assistants, construction corps, etc…
Yeah but the elite are a very tiny fraction of the population. I’m talking about the general population.
We could use this, but after basic the year is spent in the country in communities doing public works. There also need to be zero loopholes, zero outs. People from all over the country from all walks of life and all classes live and work together. There was a brief benefit after WWII when men and women came home from service having worked and lived with people from all over the country. Farm boys with no education fought side by side with men who had been to ivy league schools. There was a net benefit to it.
I’m all for mandatory military training. Deployment is a separate issue.
A lot of countries make that distinction. Everyone goes through basic but you have to volunteer into a deployable job.
