I’ve had several conversations/arguments recently with my brother making clear my system of values and my hatred for the wealthy. He is nearly diametrically opposed on all accounts and often makes light of their actions. He goes so far as to say that poor people and people in need of social services should have to figure things out for themselves. He often defends Elon Musk and champions him for being self made.
He is getting married in a foreign country soon and I have been able to put aside our differences and have been planning on going
…up until yesterday that is. I asked him of his thoughts on Musk’s seig heil maneuver and he sent a right wing meme of democratic leaders caught mid wave, saying that “they did it first”. He continued to be avoidant and didn’t respond to me calling it a strawman.
In this moment it feels necessary to cancel my plans to send a message that this is not ok. Am I the (or an) asshole for not going to his wedding because of this?
You have the absolute right to skip his wedding, no one can stop you. But like others have mentioned, it would be effectively cutting ties with him permanently. Maybe that’s exactly what you want, maybe you’ll be better off without him, maybe this is the catalyst for you to cut your losses with him and move on, or maybe not. We don’t know the nuances of your relationship with him, so I don’t think anyone on this anonymous forum can make a good faith decision for you, you will have to make it for yourself.
Presumably you will never have the chance to be at his wedding. Swallow your pride, bite your tongue, and be there for him. If he brings it up, ask him not to ruin the family moment. If being the infinite force trying to push the immovable object is that important to you, pick it up again at Thanksgiving.
Yes. Blood thicker than water. I have family that I dislike I will still attend weddings and funerals and I will still be there for them.
Don’t let politics affect your social life, that’s the entire point of why they want us fighting culture wars.
Just ignore your brothers stupid takes.
Ps. Fedi comments are fucking based AF here.
Letting politics get in the way of your personal relationships, real class act. Divide and conquer is alive and well
Not going to a wedding after saying you would is effectively for this is effectively cutting him out of your life. If you are willing to cut him out of your life, don’t go to the wedding. It just sounds like a rash decision.
As far as the Musk thing goes: I won’t even get into whether or not Musk was really trying to do a Nazi salute. Personally, I don’t think he was, Musk denies it, plenty of Jewish people and Jewish advocacy groups also say they don’t think it was intentional. But the important thing is, your brother doesn’t think it was intentional. So, at worst, he has committed the crime of being naive, and there’s a very good chance that he’s right and you’re wrong. If he said, yes Musk did a Nazi salute on purpose and then defended that, that would be way over the line. But honestly he sounds like a pretty run of the mill libertarian/conservative. And I will die on the hill that the vast majority of libertarians and conservatives are good people, even if I disagree with them politically.
Using “jews” as approval means nothing. There were plenty of jews that supported hitler. To noones shock, the wolf killed the sheep.
In fact, the idea that they are using “Jews” approval here as some sort of defense is rather questionable tactic.
Are “Jews” some sort of authority on what a nazi is?
Do the rest of us need to accept whatever the “Jews” say
Shit is fucking sus
So according to you his brother is wrong. He made a mistake in interpereting a hand gesture. You would cut him out of your family for that?
If they refuse to accept the overhwleming evidence, yes.
If they are defending a Nazi. They are a Nazi.
No don’t you get what I’m saying? Let’s say my acquaintance Jim is a Nazi. I, mistakenly, think he is not a Nazi. Someone calls Jim a Nazi and I say, “no, Jim’s cool, he’s not like that”. That would make me WRONG. It would not make me a NAZI. People get fooled all the time, a fact everyone in this thread seems to be forgetting, and that fallibility applies just as much to Musk’s accusers as his defenders.
If it siegs, heils, and screams discrimination, it’s a Nazi. No ifs, buts, or copes.
That guy certainly isn’t a run of the mill liberal/conservative if he tries to cop out his way out of that.
Also, Jewish advocacy groups worldwide aren’t exactly a good one to consult – as they often have been shown not to be independent, but work together with Israel’s government, which has a habit of ethnically cleansing Palestinians, like the current genocide in Palestine. The victims are turning into oppressors there, and that saddens me – ideally, Israeli, Jews, Muslims, Palestinians, agnosts and all alike should be able to live together in harmony.
That said, concerning Nazi aspects: assuming all other conditions are satisfied, you don’t even need to hate only Jews to be a Nazi. You can hate Palestinians and be a Nazi. Or queers. The original Nazis did that too. We were put up in concentration camps for being queer. And Musk hates those.
And your answer is, “Noooo, I don’t think he was sieg heiling”?! Come on.
You cannot be a good person until you actively work for the liberation of people, instead of voting against their rights. And reactionaries (that’s what I call ““conservatives”” do the opposite: they want us to go back to the Middle Ages.
With due respect, but your opinion should be reconsidered immediately.
I do think he wasn’t zeig heiling. So do most people in the real world who aren’t hooked in to leftist social media 24/7.
Anyways you’re missing the point. The point is that OPs brother thinks Musk didn’t do it. So are you really going to cut someone out of you life for having the majority opinion that someone isnt a Nazi and therefore is defensible?
“You cannot be a good person until you actively work for the liberation of people, instead of voting against their rights.”
“OK what if you think fetuses are people”
“But they arent”
“But I think they are, so I think I am morally righteous”
“But they aren’t and therefore you are a bad person”
Just using abortion as an example… I am strongly pro-choice myself but I dont think people are bad just because they are pro-life. Misguided? Sure, but thats hugely different than being evil. There is a ton of space in society for good people to have different political views. The notion that everyone who disagrees with you politically is a bad person is childish.
Yes, this would be an asshole move for sure! You should leave politics behind at least for a day.
I would only not attend if it’s a financial burden. Don’t try to send a message. It won’t be heard. Simply assess if it is no longer worth your time and effort and let him know you aren’t interested in upending your life on his behalf.
If you’ve got the money and it isn’t a big deal to take a nice vacation, still attend the wedding. After the honeymoon, let him know you’re done with his ass.
Aside: I’m presently evaluating whether my mother and I will maintain a relationship. I’m extremely angry with her for voting this way yet again and I have concluded (based on the day-one exec orders) that she is partially a bad person because of her politics. I still love her, but I’ve had enough. If you’re going to hurt the world with your vote, I may not continue having you in my life.
You are absolutely an asshole and you need to realise that he’s your brother even if you disagree about politics
Skipping a wedding is not a good way to make a point. And it’s one you can’t undo.
My advice is to tell him you two need to have a difficult conversation later. But do so after the wedding. However much you disagree, you can always agree to just think the other is hella stupid and leave it at that.
Lmao “not a good way to make a point” – it’s an excellent one, precisely because it’s so impactful.
Your argument is like “no we should wait, pray, and do fucking nothing” after a school shooting happened.
Honestly, and I already know I’m massively against the consensus here, but you should be the bigger man.
Tell your brother that you disagree with him but that he’s family, you’ll always love him and that you’re honoured to be a guest at his wedding.
If you want to draw a line and say “let’s not talk about politics though” or something like that, then absolutely do.
Don’t have all your family and his friends talk about how you’re refusing to attend because you had a fall out over politics, you’re not going to appear principled, you’re going to appear petty. You’ve made your point to your brother, now move on.
The bigger man has standards and doesn’t meet a fascist.
Family is family but I wouldn’t wish to go to a fascist’s marriage, ever.
The one who is petty, would be the Nazi, for refusing to be normal. If you look bad because the Nazi calls you petty, then so be it. We are people, we are civil, and we have standards.
You’ve applied the label of fascist and Nazi yourself, nowhere in OPs post does he define his brother as a fascist or Nazi. Left Vs Right political differences doesn’t mean you automatically get to apply labels like commie or Nazi, a lot of people on Lemmy need to grow up.
OP bought up the Musk debate with his brother knowing that his brother is a right winger, then OP got upset when his brother acted just as you’d expect. He poked a dog with a stick and then got upset when it barked.
I think you should follow your heart and not some stranger on the internet.
No, I wouldn’t say you’re the asshole, whatever you decide.
Do you want the option to see your brother again? Mend bridges at some future point?
There are some things you can’t take back. I have a grandmother in law that skipped my wife and I’s wedding and we have not spoken to her since.
I don’t want right wing apologia in my life. I do not enjoy biting my tongue to avoid arguments. I understand why you wouldn’t either. But skipping a wedding is serious and maybe permanent damage to your relationship. If it will free you and leave you better off, don’t go. If you will regret it, probably go and do the best you can.
The brother chose that path a long fucking time ago when he turned to nazidom.
The brother is responsible for tearing apart himself from family, not vice versa.
“My brother calls me a moron and punches me in the dick every day and I don’t want to let him anymore, am I the asshole?”
“I waggle my dick in front of my brother and he punches it every time”
From OPs context, and they could certainly clarify, but it sounds like they just won’t shut up about class struggle, wealth inequality… For which for the terminally online there is an endless appetite for and you can find a cozy echo chamber to nuzzle up in.
So his brother doesn’t share the same views on Elon musk.ok. he obviously knows this by now. Why does he insist on asking about it? Why ask a question that has no bearing on either of your lives where if you don’t get an agreement on you’ll be so mad you’ll not go to their wedding when you know the answer ahead of time.
They’re both assholes. He shouldn’t go to the wedding but honestly based on the context as presented I don’t think the brother is going to be upset about it.
Maybe you should shut up instead of thinking someone is an asshole for disliking a nazi? What the fuck are you on?
He’s not an asshole for disliking a Nazi. He’s an asshole for deciding to spring a question he knows the answer to which apparently demands of him to boycott a wedding.
His idiot brother likes Elon Musk. The brother isn’t disinviting him. OP is the one who created and is enforcing a rule about Elon.
I have no idea what the family dynamics are, but if they’re otherwise good and you’re willing to burn your family relationships because they don’t share your views on Elon Musk, wowza.
If that was really the case and if I was OP I’d go to that wedding, get absolutely shitfaced in the least amount of time my liver allows me to and let the shitshow begin.
There is no point in peaceful confrontation when the world is burning.It’s amazing to me how willing people are to play the part of the shrill reee-ing blue haired archetype foil that Republicans created.
I’m going to get drunk and ruin a wedding. THAT will fix the world.
No, dumbass, it’s going to validate everything fox news has been telling their base about the left. You have absolutely no self awareness, and will ruin your brother’s wedding as if he was the CEO of Shell even though he’s a construction worker in rural Montana.
Be the strawman the Republicans want you to be!
You are projecting a lot of things I haven’t said: I’m not crashing a wedding for any sense of politics, this is beyond any political motivation. This is personal.
If I have a beef with my brother, or any other member of my family, and they invite me to their wedding, boy am I making them regret this decision.
Everyone at that party is going to think twice before sending me that golden print letter in the future. No one thinks you’re a “crazy liberal” when you’re puking orange juice and vodka you brought from home in the punchbowl and then shout out “Don’t worry everyone, it’s just gonna taste better!”How ironic.
“A nazi thinks people suck!!! So if I’m behaving NORMALLY, then I’m the problem!” Is essentially what you say.
Who then is the problem? If you can’t see that for yourself, I suggest you remove your profile from Lemmy.
