I’ve had several conversations/arguments recently with my brother making clear my system of values and my hatred for the wealthy. He is nearly diametrically opposed on all accounts and often makes light of their actions. He goes so far as to say that poor people and people in need of social services should have to figure things out for themselves. He often defends Elon Musk and champions him for being self made.
He is getting married in a foreign country soon and I have been able to put aside our differences and have been planning on going
…up until yesterday that is. I asked him of his thoughts on Musk’s seig heil maneuver and he sent a right wing meme of democratic leaders caught mid wave, saying that “they did it first”. He continued to be avoidant and didn’t respond to me calling it a strawman.
In this moment it feels necessary to cancel my plans to send a message that this is not ok. Am I the (or an) asshole for not going to his wedding because of this?
I have recently nuked relationships over different values. It hurt but I know in my heart it was the right thing to do. I dont want to be the type of person that has a person like that in my life and covers for them.
Consider if this person is worth sacrificing your personal values and morals for.
Nah, don’t go if you don’t want to. Family are just randomly assinged people you share the same genes with. If you don’t like them you don’t have to force yourself to like them in order to appease random strangers online.
If he truly is your family and loves you, like all the “YOU ARE DOING WHAT” posters are saying, he will understand and not hate you. If he does, fuck him.
No offence but this is advice of a traumatized child. This is not how families should be and if this is yours, you need genuine therapy, definetly not giving others advice on family. Op do not listen to this
You’re right in that this is not how families should be. They should be people you care about and trust.
Your family does get a pass for being family; you maybe don’t share the same interests or lifestyle that would otherwise form a distance in childhood friends that eventually fizzles out, but with families this shouldn’t be the case.
But then sometimes your family members end up (or you discover) they are bad people. Yet even then you may stand with them as they sell drugs or rob people or even have killed people; they’re still family and what they’ve done can be understandable even if wrong.
Then there are Nazis and Nazi sympathizers, apologists, and supporters.
Families should stick together, but people also shouldn’t be Nazis. So here we are.
Well said, in my personal opinion we should stick close to family but there are lines, and each person’s lines are different, but I feel generally that line should be for their actions and not their ideas or thoughts. Being a trump supporter Vs a Jan 6 rioter or a proud boy are different levels to me. We should try to change our families mind to an extent, if they can’t or won’t change or if you’re not a great debater. Honestly unless your family hurts others, I can keep it together.
No offense, but this is advice from someone that’s not related to a rabbid wolverine with a toothache and a chemical imbalance. Some relatives are fucking nightmares, and no amount of tolerance is gonna change that. Walking away is sometimes the best for your mental health. Can confirm. My psycho sister disowning the whole family was the greatest gift she ever gave us.
OP, unless you’re in therapy and Shezzgrad is your licensed professional help, then ignore their advice.
You’re kinda making it clear your projecting your own family issues onto op as my original comment to you. I have a psycho sister too, thing is, there’s a difference between differences in thought and being a literal fucking psycho, psycho is sending is shattering the family at the drop of the hat because you feel slighted, thinking Elon is the coolest dude ever (he isn’t) isn’t the same level, things aren’t black and white.
OP, unless you’re in therapy and Shezzgrad is your licensed professional help, then ignore their advice.
When I said it originally I was being a dick, but I think you may want to genuinely consider therapy, family traumas can be everlasting and can really kick in later on in adulthood, your sister experience sounds similar to mine
So it’s not your professional opinion then, Dr.
When I said it originally I was being a dick, but I think you may want to genuinely consider therapy
I, too, was being a dick because you give advice like you’re intimately aware of the situation, when I’m guessing you are not. I’ve done therapy. Didn’t change the fact that I’m related to a person that would shove her kids into traffic if the mood suited. My ultimate point being that just because someone is a relative DOES NOT mean you need to keep them in your life.
And beyond saying i have a psycho sister, what gives you the impression that our experiences are similar? I didn’t give a single detail. Unless we compare notes, that’s just you basing an opinion on your experiences. Projecting, if you will.
Okay dude, whatever you say. You can take your anger out on me, but you’re proving you clearly were projecting your own issues and you need therapy. I hope you work through your issues dude, but your experience aren’t the same as op over here. You’re sister sounds truly awful and I hope you know it isn’t your fault
LOL. Elon is self made? Where did he get that from?
Did he conveniently forget mommy and daddy are rich from their emerald mine?
Self made means you don’t come from wealth and don’t have a support system to make you even more rich.
Your brother is a moron.
even elon’s dad constantly debunks the self made myth.
As with all things, this can be solved by some healthy passive-aggressions:
I’d go, drink heavily, find a random corner of vaguely like minded individuals and strike up a hearty politics convo with them.
When your brother and his bride come around to ask how everyone is doing, smile blankly and nod politlely, and wait for him to leave.
Then resume the conversation.
99.9% of these posts boil down to “should I do what I want with my own life?”
Yes, you should do what you want with your own life.
You can do whatever you want with your own life, but many of those things will make you an asshole.
The question posed is “will doing the thing I want to do make me an asshole”
Is being tolerant of assholes an asshole move?
Could be. Tolerance and assholes aren’t binary states, so it depends on the context what the measure is.
If someone intentionally steps on an ant at a funeral, and I decide I’m not going to let it slide and interrupt the eulogy to give an impassioned lecture about how needless killing is immoral, even if it’s an ant, I’d be an asshole.
If I saw some schoolyard bullies beating up a kid and I didn’t intervene I’d be an asshole.
That first example may just make you out to be an inconsiderate psychotic.
As much as political differences matter, you will not change his mind by not going - but your relationships will get much, much more bitter, and it will be hard to rectify. Many people went through this mistake, and it costed them a lot.
Honor his wedding while keeping to your values. This event has nothing to do with them.
This thread made me delete lemmy - bye
This family clearly has issues, most do.
The 20 posts suggesting to ditch your family to punish them instead of talking and expressing how it bothers you is where you lost me.
I guess this is how you create echo chambers. I disagree with the majority of the opinions here, and unlike family I have no motivation to keep listening to this.
Enjoy!
Realise that you’re choosing to listen to Nazis rather than not interact with them, or not to listen to them.
Habe you perhaps considered that you might be the problem? Sure, someone is family. But if that family member were to constantly make horrid remarks – would you then really want to spend that energy having a dinner with them?
For your mental health, it’s better not to.
You’re not the asshole. Your brother is the asshole for being a right winger.
Cheeto Hitler’s new term is gonna prompt a lot of people to perform a much needed purge of chuds in their social circle.
You are a drama queen and would probably make a scene at his wedding anyway. Don’t go.
Yeah, OP needs to grow some balls and toughen the fuck up over differing opinions especially to your siblings weddings. You’re letting politics and hypotheticals destory your relationship. I’m not saying you have to agree with him, but you should be able to be mature enough to leave politics, religion when around family.
Depends on how strongly you value your relationship with your brother. He may be a fuckwaffle, but he is your fuckwaffle. It’s big of you setting your differences aside. If you don’t go, and he means a lot to you outside of his political views, then you might regret not going. If you don’t really care for him and political ideology is more important then dont go. I think not going is kind of crossing the Rubicon, but I don’t know the situation part from your details
Very level headed answer. We like to stand on principle here, but if OP doesn’t go that’s pretty much the end of their relationship, we’re talking decades to repair. If that’s what OP wants that’s what OP wants, but in this case it might be better to take the high ground and say “I think your political views are horrendous, but you’re still my brother”. Get a few drinks then duck out after the speeches.
I think you’re the most correct person here.
OP, it’s your life and relationships. Of course people on the internet will tell you to pull the trigger on the nuclear option, because they don’t experience any of the fallout of you making a hardline decision.
I’m not saying go to the wedding. I’m just saying consider how it might affect your relationship with him and the rest of your immediate family and decide if that’s going to be a better situation overall, before acting.
I agree. Don’t think about it like going to the wedding or not. Decide if you want to cut ties with your brother and possibly other parts of your family. Maybe also people that don’t share his political opinions but still side with him in terms of the wedding. Chances are high that not going will permanently damage your relationship to your brother and possibly other family members that side with him. If you value your ideals higher than your family, that’s perfectly okay. But from perspective you aren’t forced to do that.
Personally I think you’re pushing one hot button waiting for it to blow. I’m sure my father voted for trump. Should I not see him because of it? Or half of America? Wanting your brother to agree with you by punishing him just makes you look childish.
That said, I don’t know the rest of the dynamic. Others might say it’s worth it but honestly you all are just fighting over minor values. Do you expect all family to have exactly your values? Are you a liberal? Because this honestly seems like a lib more than a leftist move. Playing intellectually superior while trying to emotionally hurting the other.
This is my read too. Cut someone out of your life for their shitty actions, not their shitty opinions.
I have compromised with my family my entire life and it has taken a mental toll on me. They have talked down to me and ridiculed my values for much of my life. I am deeply committed to human rights on a personal level and spend much of my free time volunteering in my community. These are not minor values. Perhaps I’m being extreme but making light of a nazi salute is also quite extreme.
Your brother isn’t just passively going along with it because “muh eggs expensive,” he’s drank the kool-aid and he’s a lost cause. Don’t listen to these fucking concavebrains telling you to pal around with enthusiastic supporters of nazis, especially when it comes at the expense of your health.
Go to the wedding. That is a really big deal. After that don’t engage with him on politics. Maybe don’t engage at all. Show up for birthdays and maybe a holiday or two. Do the ‘quiet quitting’ of family interaction. You aren’t going to change their mind. I’ve been trying for 20+ years and it’s just gotten worse.
Why drag it out? The brother is clearly a lost cause, OP should just burn that bridge already instead of suffering longer than is necessary.
I have compromised with my family my entire life and it has taken a mental toll on me. They have talked down to me and ridiculed my values for much of my life…
IMHO, this is the core / bigger issue. Maybe work on this first.
I still think you should go. And also I can’t judge if you are political online only or not but if you truly spend a lot of your time working based on your values and they belittle you, you do need to draw a line.
Them attacking you, if true, is different from you picking a fight with your brother over a minor issue.
I agree with the other commenter that you go to the wedding then make your decision. Them liking musk and you not going to their once in a life time event is a nuclear escalation.
How much sandpaper did you get through to make your brain this smooth? The gap between the values of fascism and human decency isn’t “minor,” it’s fucking monumental. If your values are only a minor step away from those of fascists, that’s a you problem.
Attacking me just like in OP’s post? Easy block. Others agreed with me, no reason to be a jerk. No one else was.
life is too short to voluntarily deal with fascists, blood relative or not. no reason to go. nta
Show him you’re the bigger person, support him on this happy day, then be on with it. Not going to his wedding would not only make you the enemy. It’d also create hostility and he may be left thinking that your political beliefs drove you away and made you abandon your family. Don’t let some billionaire be the wedge in your relationship with your family.
pEOpLe rEFuSINg To bE aROunD NAzIs aRe the ONeS whO crEAte ThE reAL hOSTILitY 🙄
Not to hijack but my dad is a pretty staunch Trump supporter and I still love him dearly. I blame the pundits, the propagandists, and Trump more than I blame him. I’ll never forgive them for planting the thought in my brain that the world might be a little bit better without my father in it. There are definitely evil people in the MAGA ranks but a staggering number are just easily duped.
You aren’t the asshole. A Nazi apologist is still a Nazi. The apologists are the ones who open the gates so the Nazis can get in.
You’re right, but remember that gates are bidirectional. Maybe in the future there’ll be a point where his brother reconsiders his political views but if he’s only surrounded by similar-minded folks, it’s way harder to break out of that social circle.
You have the absolute right to skip his wedding, no one can stop you. But like others have mentioned, it would be effectively cutting ties with him permanently. Maybe that’s exactly what you want, maybe you’ll be better off without him, maybe this is the catalyst for you to cut your losses with him and move on, or maybe not. We don’t know the nuances of your relationship with him, so I don’t think anyone on this anonymous forum can make a good faith decision for you, you will have to make it for yourself.
