In an unexpected mask off, “secure” email and VPN provider Proton took the stance of siding with the fascist MAGA Reps. Proton’s services are no option for me and many others any longer. Let’s collect and discuss alternatives (E2E encrypted email and VPN) here 🔐👇

Always try to provide: -Server location (jurisdiction) -Governance -Integrity/trustworthiness/transparency -User experience/ease of use (grade 1 to 10, lets take Proton as a benchmark with an 8) -Pricing and links

If you knowalternatives setups, feel free to share, too.

#ProtonExodus

Background: https://lemmy.ca/comment/13913116

  • marcie (she/her)@lemmy.ml
    0·
    4 months ago

    Truly unhinged that they decided to come out on this. Fellas, you are fucking Swiss why throw yourself under the train for the US election

    • Empricorn@feddit.nlEnglish
      0·
      4 months ago

      Because terrible people literally can’t help themselves. Wait for people to show you who they truly are, they will…

  • chloroken@lemmy.mlEnglish
    0·
    4 months ago

    I personally don’t care. If their code changes, I’m out, but this shit is par for course. Capitalists are largely all capable of these decisions.

  • Timber@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    0·
    4 months ago

    systemli.org

    • Germany (I think)
    • Politically leftist
    • Very nice people
    • User experience 8, works fine and people put a lot of effort in
    • It’s free, but you need an invite code
  • c1a5s1c@feddit.orgEnglish
    0·
    4 months ago

    Maybe not the contribution that you’re looking for, but going to tell you this story regardless.

    I am Swiss, and used to be a former diplomat at the Embassy of Switzerland in the United Kingdom. My colleagues and I had organized an evening on cybersecurity, where we showcase what Switzerland has to offer. I invited stakeholders such as:

    • Dreamlab (really cool company, should look them up if you don’t know of them)
    • NCSC (Swiss National Cyber Security Center)
    • Some Swiss cyber regulator; and
    • Proton

    Firstly, when speaking with the CEO of Dreamlab, he ushered a statement; upon me saying I’m a huge Proton fan and subscribed to all services - “they are lying to your faces”.

    I was curious, so I spoke with the regulators and NCSC delegates, they said that Proton has been involved in a handful of leaks - some that were made public, some behind the scenes.

    When I spoke to Andy, having told him that I grew up in Canada, I asked him what his plan was for North America. His response: “I will gladly take their money, but never open up shop there - too many national security services that come knocking on the door”.

    Now I see that (on the Proton page), that they are looking for a few US based positions for Marketing and Growth - going against what we discussed a few years back. In all honesty, I still have a Plus subscription with them, but beginning to questions a lot more things regarding security and ethics at Proton. Guess I’ll just self-host in the future. Trust no one but yourself with your personal data.

    • Saleh@feddit.org
      0·
      4 months ago

      I guess on the one hand people are anxious about Trumps inaugeration and on the other hand this is a great opportunity for competitors or otherwise opposed people to launch an astroturfing campaign off of it.

      When looking at posts titled has gone “full MAGA” for saying they feel Trump is more likely to enact antitrust rules against big tech than Democrats who let them down the past years, is just absurd.

      It is the same line of reasoning like claiming the WHO to have been a chinese asset because they supported some of Chinas anti-Covid measures.

  • sadTruth@lemmy.hogru.chEnglish
    0·
    4 months ago

    There are 2 kinds of companies:

    1. Evil companies
    2. Companies that are not evil YET.

    What this means in this case is that only your own E-Mail server running on a Raspi in your own home can be considered private or secure in the long run. Unfortunately this is really really hard to do, which is the only reason i have not done it yet.
    Personally i do not consider any E-Mail private, because E-Mail is not E2E-encrypted, and 99.9% of times one side of the conversation is going to be hosted on some shady companies servers.

    Of course Proton delivers a great service, because they make an insecure protocol a little less insecure, and i personally use Proton mail. Unfortunately their closed-source nature makes it impossible to switch providers without abandoning their great software.

    As for services like Drive, they can actually be hosted privately and securely on your own Raspi with stuff like NextCloud/OwnCloud.
    For those that can’t/don’t want to self-host, i would recommend paying for a hoster that hosts FOSS software and contributes to it either with money or code. In that case you would probably loose E2E-encryption, but gain the ability to switch providers once your provider turns on you. In that case at least some of your money would continue to offer value to you by having improved the software you are still using.

  • Tin@lemmy.worldEnglish
    0·
    4 months ago

    The CEO “apologized” this morning (after being duly chastised, I’m sure):

    Hi all, last night, a post from last year from my personal X account suddenly became a topic of discussion here on Reddit. I want to share a few thoughts on this to provide clarity to the community on what is Proton’s policy on politics going forward.

    First, while the X post was not intended to be a political statement, I can understand how it can be interpreted as such, and it therefore should not have been made. While we will not prohibit all employees from expressing personal political opinions publicly, it is something I will personally avoid in the future. I lean left on some issues, and right on other issues, but it doesn’t serve our mission to publicly debate this. It should be obvious, but I will say that it is a false equivalence to say that agreeing with Republicans on one specific issue (antitrust enforcement to protect small companies) is equal to endorsing the entire Republican party platform.

    Second, officially Proton must always be politically neutral, and while we may share facts and analysis, our policy going forward will be to share no opinions of a political nature. The line between facts, analysis, and opinions can be blurry at times, but we will seek to better clarify this over time through your feedback and input.

    The exception to these rules is on the topics of privacy, security, and freedom. These are necessarily political topics, where influencing public policy to defend these values, often requires engaging politically.

    The operations of Proton have always reflected our neutrality. For example, recently we refused pressure to deplatform both Palestinian student groups and Zionist student groups, not because we necessarily agreed with their views, but because we believe more strongly in their right to have their own views.

    It is also a legal guarantee under Swiss law, which explicitly prohibits us from assisting foreign governments or agencies, and allows us no discretion to show favoritism as Swiss law and Swiss courts have the final say.

    The promise we make is that no matter your politics, you will always be welcome at Proton (subject of course to adherence to our terms and conditions). When it comes to defending your right to privacy, Proton will show no favoritism or bias, and will unconditionally defend it irrespective of the opinions you may hold.

    This is because both Proton as a company, and Proton as a community, is highly diverse, with people that hold a wide range of opinions and perspectives. It’s important that we not lose sight of nuance. Agreeing/disagreeing with somebody on one point, rarely means you agree/disagree with them on every other point.

    I would like to believe that as a community there is more that unites us than divides us, and that privacy and freedom are universal values that we can all agree upon. This continues to be the mission of the non-profit Proton Foundation, and we will strive to carry it out as neutrally as possible.

    Going forward, I will be posting via u/andy1011000. Thank you for your feedback and inputs so far, and we look forward to continuing the conversation.

    Original post: https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/1i2nz9v/on_politics_and_proton_a_message_from_andy/

    Am I being paranoid when I notice that the binary at the end of his username translates to 88?

  • Mettled@reddthat.comEnglish
    0·
    4 months ago

    You,…are being a spaz,…that’s all it is. An immature brat for no reason other than someone has a different view from what you believe.

    • Cattypat@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
      0·
      4 months ago

      tell me, are your human rights personally challenged by the trump administration? mine are, and I would like to maintain what rights I have now

      • Mettled@reddthat.comEnglish
        0·
        4 months ago

        There is not any kind of “human right” that is unversally recognized. You can’t depend on other people to approve of your existance. If you will not defend people you despise because of their views, you have no right to demand that other people have suty to care if you live or die.

    • TimeSquirrel@kbin.melroy.org
      0·
      4 months ago

      We aren’t in an age anymore where differing political opinions are harmless. People aren’t debating mere tax policies anymore. Wake the fuck up.

    • sunzu2@thebrainbin.org
      0·
      4 months ago

      That’a OP chock as a customer, bootlicker

      He doesn’t like something and he is making that change. You are the one being immaut twat about it

    • The Quuuuuill@slrpnk.netEnglish
      0·
      4 months ago

      for some of us, particularly queer, black, trans, women, immigrant, and indigenous people, the stakes are higher than “i don’t personally agree with the ceo of proton.” our lives are being endangered both by the new admin’s policies as well as the emboldened cult associated with it.

      this is not a “spaz” (offensive term by the way, so thanks for that) or brat move. it’s simply us doing what people always say to do: voting with our wallets. this move is bad for a lot of people. i’m thrilled for you that it’s not bad, but i ask you to see us saying it is bad not as your enemy, but as people who are vulnerable asking you to take a longer look at the bigger picture

  • Alas Poor Erinaceus@lemmy.mlEnglish
    0·
    4 months ago

    You could look at infomaniak, but I didn’t have the best experience trying out (or even getting started with) their services. Finding a provider that has all of Proton’s apps is going to be tough (or at least it was from me while I was looking to escape from Tuta). Good luck, tho.

    • sunzu2@thebrainbin.org
      0·
      4 months ago

      Finding a provider that has all of Proton’s apps is going to be toug

      Nobody should be using any provider as one stop shop… That’s how we got cooked by Google and Apple the first time folks.

      Unbundle, mix and match…

      Yeah it auck Proton did this but if you only got one proton service, it is eaiser to either do nothing or switch it.

      • Alas Poor Erinaceus@lemmy.mlEnglish
        0·
        4 months ago

        Oh boy, getting old here, let’s see if I can remember.

        I think in part it was because they seemed unable to fix the Linux desktop client after months and months and months, and repeated support requests. Also, I had been a user of theirs for some time when they changed how their plans worked, and moved a feature I relied heavily upon (I think it was email templates—something you might never need!) to a much more expensive plan. Felt like I was being charged more for being a longtime user. I don’t know if they have cloud storage now, but at the time they didn’t, and Proton had that, along of course with mail and calendar—all of that for less than what Tuta was offering which was mail, calendar, and plenty of other features that were continuously promised but never released. So really just a bunch of little things that were important to me, but which other users might never miss.

        • zqps@sh.itjust.works
          0·
          4 months ago

          Thanks for the writeup. It helps to know where to look to make an informed decision, when I finally have the time to sit down and de-google.

    • The Hobbyist@lemmy.zip
      0·
      4 months ago

      Am I the only that don’t see this the same way as the rest? I am in way way endorsing or supporting MAGA, but they did take action against big tech (though for reasons of retribution) and I see Proton only acknowledging a good person being designated to lead the next antitrust efforts, apparently with a good track record.

      Proton also acknowledges Lina Kahn who has done a great job, nominated under Joe Biden.

      Ultimately, I feel like from a perspective of Proton, any win against Big Tech, is a good win, and I can’t disagree.

      There is a longer discussion to be had around how the dems were supported by oligarchs and I think that’s what Proton is referring to, they decided to turn a blind eye under the Obama administration for instance. Bernie Sanders goes to lengths about this in this interview, illuminating: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzkgWDCucNY

      So all in all, maga sucks, new pick probably good, and in my view, proton not actually endorsing maga/trump but just acknowledging a good pick.

      Did I miss something?

      • Eatspancakes84@lemmy.world
        0·
        4 months ago

        The main part of the message that pissed me off was the idea that GOP sides with the “little guy”. First, it’s demonstrably false. Second, he is a tech CEO. He wouldn’t recognise a little guy before his security crew has time to forcibly remove him.

        • The Hobbyist@lemmy.zip
          0·
          4 months ago

          Yes I fully agree with you.

          Does that claim alone warrant the absolute backlash though? I personally feel like no.